Time Warp HOF Ballot 1980

jdw · 03-09-2008, 11:39 PM

This is the annual Time Warp Baseball League Hall of Fame thread.

Two members of the Pirates Dynasty of the 60s and early 70s, including the first of their trio of aces to hit the ballot. Also the first pitcher to win the Murphy Award in different leagues in consecutive seasons, part of his run of three straight awards.

Have at it.

John

jdw · 03-09-2008, 11:39 PM

1936 Initial Ballot Results, 1937 Results, 1938 Results, 1939 Results, 1940 Results, 1941 Results, 1942 Results, 1943 Results, 1944 Results, 1945 Results, 1946 Results, 1947 Results, 1948 Results, 1949 Results, 1950 Results, 1951 Results, 1952 Results, 1953 Results, 1954 Results, 1955 Results, 1956 Results, 1957 Results, 1958 Results, 1959 Results, 1960 Results (lost in board crash), 1961 Results, 1962 Results, 1963 Results, 1964 Results, 1965 Results, 1966 Results, 1967 Results, 1968 Results, 1969 Results, 1970 Results, 1971 Results, 1972 Results, 1973 Results, 1974 Results, 1975 Results, 1976 Results, 1977 Results, 1978 Results, 1979 Results

All players who received at least 5% of votes on the last ballot were retained for this ballot. I also added players who became eligible for the ballot in 1978 (retired after 1973 season).

All players not receiving 5% of votes on this ballot will be removed. Also, all players who have been retired for 20 years fall off this ballot if not elected.

Vote for as many or as few as you want. Max votes are 10.

PLEASE NOTE:
Players who lost service time to the war are denoted with: WWII

Notes:

OPS+ and ERA+ are listed for all players now. 100 is considered league average. The higher the # the better the player. This lets you see how they did in relation to the players of their generation while also letting you compare their dominance of the league to players from different eras.

All Pros are for the Post War era only (1946-). There are traditionally voted on by a poll of the league's GM's and regular participants (1946-48, 1950-62, 1969-) or by the Sporting News (1949, 1963-68, All Decade & Centenial Teams). The year end teams are named for each league and feature one player for each field position along with 4-5 starting pitchers (depending on the rotation size of the era) and one relief pitcher.

The stats in "New Cato" are a work in progess with certain years missing.

jdw · 03-09-2008, 11:40 PM

Here's all HOF'er OPS+ for reference:

189 - 2B Woody Woodson
186 - LF Ray Kress
166 - CF Dark Horse Allen
163 - 2B Jason Tedford
159 - SS Whitey Kohse
158 - LF Oscar Vancini
156 - 1B Charlton Brown
152 - 2B Jed Burke
152 - 1B Patrick Seifried
152 - 1B Arnie Stewart
152 - 1B Shigeo Oh
149 - 2B Genaro Nunez
148 - C Whiskey Allen
148 - 1B Ken Chaucer
147 - 1B Lonny Arrendale
146 - CF Peaches Badeau
146 - 3B Dave Lemmings
145 - SS Blake Crocitto
145 - LF Paul Lett
142 - C Hershel Lee
141 - CF 1B Ben Baum
141 - RF Tee Carver
141 - LF Ogden Wing
141 - RF Asa Booker
141 - RF/CF Andrew Vamos
140 - CF Bud Breckenridge
140 - RF John Falise
140 - CF Ray Brown
140 - RF Scott Podlasek
140 - 3B Dale Lamberty
140 - 2B Bobby Martin
139 - LF Dewey Mickelsen
139 - SS/2B Tom Howard
138 - RF Tyrell Chestnut
138 - LF Wolter Tjeenk-Willink
138 - C John Degal
138 - CF Rudel Dietrich
137 - 2B Kid Fite
137 - LF Will Miller
137 - 3B Steven Bussell
137 - 1B Ted McMurray
136 - C Harry Cohan
136 - 1B Jared Jarry
135 - C/1B John Klehammer
135 - OF Jimmy Ditty
134 - 3B Carl Kahle
134 - 2B Alan Liao Jr.
133 - 2B Slap Hertzog
133 - SS Flaky Arsenault
133 - CF Roy Hobbs
133 - CF Dave Arkless
133 - 2B Matt Perly
133 - CF Mark Silcox
132 - SS Adolf Greisbach
132 - LF John Schmieder
132 - 1B Cookie Parrish
131 - C Chuck Rauch
131 - RF Nick Graves
131 - 2B Hans Habermehl
131 - RF William Perry
130 - C Sunny Davie
129 - C Tom Turley
129 - RF George Ward
129 - CF Ping Hung
129 - C Herman Dunkel
129 - RF Moonlight Graham
128 - SS Morris Lutske
127 - CF Campbell Ditty
127 - 3B Troy Kinnear
127 - SS Mike Fellner
126 - LF Glendon Zegri
125 - 2B Herm Vardaman
125 - 2B Mike Kreitenberg
124 - SS Levi Walls
124 - SS Kenneth Whitt
123 - SS Dale Reneau
123 - 3B Alan Liao, Sr.
122 - CF Sam Kass
122 - 1B Sal Rossi
121 - 1B Quenton Misisca
120 - 2B/CF Ervin Skjerly
118 - 3B August Kahle
114 - 2B/SS Jonny Perly
114 - CF Jon Minzey
110 - 3B David McAuliffe
110 - SS Ted Stuart
104 - SS Dennis Ward
102 - C Harry Finley

jdw · 03-09-2008, 11:40 PM

Here's all HOF'er OPS+ by position for reference:

148 - C Whiskey Allen
142 - C Hershel Lee
138 - C John Degal
136 - C Harry Cohan
135 - C/1B John Klehammer
131 - C Chuck Rauch
130 - C Sunny Davie
129 - C Tom Turley
129 - C Herman Dunkel
102 - C Harry Finley

156 - 1B Charlton Brown
152 - 1B Patrick Seifried
152 - 1B Arnie Stewart
152 - 1B Shigeo Oh
148 - 1B Ken Chaucer
147 - 1B Lonny Arrendale
137 - 1B Ted McMurray
136 - 1B Jared Jarry
135 - C/1B John Klehammer
132 - 1B Cookie Parrish
122 - 1B Sal Rossi
121 - 1B Quenton Misisca

189 - 2B Woody Woodson
163 - 2B Jason Tedford
152 - 2B Jed Burke
149 - 2B Genaro Nunez
140 - 2B Bobby Martin
139 - SS/2B Tom Howard
137 - 2B Kid Fite
134 - 2B Alan Liao Jr.
133 - 2B Slap Hertzog
133 - 2B Matt Perly
131 - 2B Hans Habermehl
125 - 2B Herm Vardaman
125 - 2B Mike Kreitenberg
120 - 2B/CF Ervin Skjerly
114 - 2B/SS Jonny Perly

159 - SS Whitey Kohse
145 - SS Blake Crocitto
139 - SS/2B Tom Howard
133 - SS Flaky Arsenault
132 - SS Adolf Greisbach
128 - SS Morris Lutske
127 - SS Mike Fellner
124 - SS Levi Walls
124 - SS Kenneth Whitt
123 - SS Dale Reneau
114 - 2B/SS Jonny Perly
110 - SS Ted Stuart
104 - SS Dennis Ward

146 - 3B Dave Lemmings
140 - 3B Dale Lamberty
137 - 3B Steven Bussell
134 - 3B Carl Kahle
127 - 3B Troy Kinnear
123 - 3B Alan Liao, Sr.
118 - 3B August Kahle
110 - 3B David McAuliffe

186 - LF Ray Kress
158 - LF Oscar Vancini
145 - LF Paul Lett
141 - LF Ogden Wing
139 - LF Dewey Mickelsen
138 - LF Wolter Tjeenk-Willink
137 - LF Will Miller
132 - LF John Schmieder
126 - LF Glendon Zegri

166 - CF Dark Horse Allen
146 - CF Peaches Badeau
141 - CF 1B Ben Baum
141 - OF Andrew Vamos
140 - CF Bud Breckenridge
140 - CF Ray Brown
138 - CF Rudel Dietrich
135 - OF Jimmy Ditty
133 - CF Roy Hobbs
133 - CF Dave Arkless
133 - CF Mark Silcox
129 - CF Ping Hung
127 - CF Campbell Ditty
122 - CF Sam Kass
120 - 2B/CF Ervin Skjerly
114 - CF Jon Minzey

141 - RF Tee Carver
141 - RF Asa Booker
141 - OF Andrew Vamos
140 - RF John Falise
140 - RF Scott Podlasek
138 - RF Tyrell Chestnut
131 - RF Nick Graves
131 - RF William Perry
129 - RF George Ward
129 - RF Moonlight Graham

jdw · 03-09-2008, 11:40 PM

Batters

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
AVG: .364
Hits: 4000
HR: 607
RBI: 1906
2B: 665
BB: 2509
R: 2065
SB: 1297

Bobby Johnson, 1B, Last Season: 1960
1932 H, 380 2B, 363 HR, 1348 RBI, 989 R
861 K, 527 BB, 12 SB
.286 AVG, .338 OBP, .511 SLG, .849 OPS
WWII - 2 Yrs
OPS+: 133
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 4
All Pros: 1948, 1951
Pennants: 1946, 1948, 1955
WS Victories: 1946
WS Record: .264/.328/.434/.762, 2 HR, 7 RBI, 5 R
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 1, 2B 2, HR 1, RBI 2
Career Top 25: HR (11)
Final Year on Ballot: 1980

Ben Cook, 3B/CF, Last Season: 1961
1722 H, 175 2B, 129 HR, 665 RBI, 1254 R
476 K, 1391 BB, 575 SB
.260 AVG, .389 OBP, .371 SLG, .760 OPS
OPS+: 114
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
All Pros: 1955, 1956, 1957
Pennants: 1950, 1953, 1954, 1957, 1959
WS Victories: 1950, 1957, 1959
WS Record: .250/.342/.370/.712, 2 HR, 4 RBI, 16 R
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Runs 2, SB 7, BB 5
Career Top 25: SB (19), BB (20)
Final Year on Ballot: 1981

Wilford Woodworth, 3B, Last Season: 1965
1663 H, 305 2B, 408 HR, 1278 RBI, 1141 R
1286 K, 1051 BB, 57 SB
.244 AVG, .350 OBP, .483 SLG, .833 OPS
OPS+: 128
BOY Award: 1955
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
All Pros: 1954, 1955
Pennants: 1956, 1959
WS Victories: 1956
WS Record: .150/.292/.275/.567, 1 HR, 4 RBI, 6 R
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: HR 1, SLG 1, TB 1
Career Top 25: HR (6)
Final Year on Ballot: 1985

"Grumpy" Abraham Noel, 1B, Last Season: 1966
2799 H, 331 2B, 253 HR, 1346 RBI, 1248 R
1436 K, 1132 BB, 3 SB
.294 AVG, .371 OBP, .416 SLG, .787 OPS
OPS+: 122
BOY Award: 1959
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 1
All Pros: 1959, 1960
Pennants: 1956, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962
WS Victories: 1961, 1962
WS Record: .252/.328/.383/.711, 2 HR, 10 RBI, 14 R
Batting Titles: 1959
Led League in: BA 1, OBP 1, SLG 1, OPS 1, R 1, H 1, TB 1, RBI 1
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1986

Roger Joyce, SS, Last Season: 1967
2394 H, 341 2B, 109 HR, 837 RBI, 1128 R
746 K, 685 BB
.312 AVG, .370 OBP, .416 SLG, .785 OPS
OPS+: 122
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
All Pros: 1956, 1957, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1963
Pennants: 1956, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1966
WS Victories: 1961, 1962
WS Record: .240/.308/.339/.647, 2 HR, 7 RBI, 10 R
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: R 1, H 3
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1988

Lucien "Lulu" Arbour, LF, Last Season: 1969
2018 H, 315 2B, 214 HR, 1015 RBI, 1123 R
911 K, 538 BB, 443 SB
.305 AVG, .357 OBP, .482 SLG, .839 OPS
OPS+: 137
BOY Award: 1965
ROY Award: 1957
Gold Gloves: NONE
All Pros: 1965
Pennants: 1965, 1967
WS Victories: 1965
WS Record: .196/.212/.353/.564, 2 HR, 3 RBI, 6 R
Batting Titles: 1965
Led League in: BA 1, SLG 1, OPS 1, R 1, H 1, 2B 2, 3B 2,, SB 2
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1989

Henry Thomas, CF, Last Season: 1970
2369 H, 367 2B, 285 HR, 1146 RBI, 1236 R
1402 K, 715 BB
.292 AVG, .349 OBP, .446 SLG, .815 OPS
OPS+: 131
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
All Pros: 1960, 1963, 1964, 1965
Pennants: 1961, 1964, 1965
WS Victories: 1964
WS Record: .351/.390/.610/1.001, 6 HR, 16 RBI, 16 R
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: 3B 2
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1990

David Lawrence, 1B/3B/SS , Last Season: 1972
2352 H, 410 2B, 204 HR, 1190 RBI, 1170 R
1046 K, 922 BB
.297 AVG, .372 OBP, .445 SLG, .817 OPS
OPS+: 133
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 1964
All Pros: 1967 (3B), 1968 (SS)
Pennants: 1960, 1969
WS Victories: 1960, 1969
Post Season Record: .478/.500/.696/1.196 , 1 HR, 4 RBI, 4 R
Batting Titles: 1970
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1992

Jim Alan, RF/LF, Last Season: 1973
2247 H, 337 2B, 427 HR, 1396 RBI, 1271 R
1146 K, 886 BB
.270 AVG, .340 OBP, .478 SLG, .818 OPS
OPS+: 137
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
All Pros: 1960, 1961, 1965,
Divisions: 1971
Pennants: 1964, 1965, 1966
WS Victories: 1964
Post Season Record: .329/.366/.711/1.076, 7 HR, 20 RBI, 14 R
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: HR (1)
Career Top 25: HR (9th)
Final Year on Ballot: 1993

Henry Cruz, C, Last Season: 1973
2056 H, 247 2B, 153 HR, 955 RBI, 852 R
761 K, 558 BB
.299 AVG, .350 OBP, .407 SLG, .757 OPS
OPS+: 116
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: 1958
Gold Gloves: 1958, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1969
All Pros: 1960, 1961, 1963, 1965
Divisions: 1969, 1970, 1971, 1973
Pennants: 1960, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1970, 1971
WS Victories: 1960, 1966, 1967
Post Season Record: .227/.269/.267/.535, 0 HR, 13 RBI, 7 R
Batting Titles: 1969
Led League in: BA 1
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1993

Leo Santiago, LF, Last Season: 1972
1663 H, 161 2B, 311 HR, 928 RBI, 877 R
631 K, 631 BB
.294 AVG, .372 OBP, .500 SLG, .872 OPS
OPS+: 157
BOY Award: 1971
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 1967, 1972
All Pros: 1966, 1967, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972
Divisions: NONE
Pennants: NONE
WS Victories: NONE
Post Season Record: N/A
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 2. OPS 2, HR 4, RBI 1, TB 1
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1993

NEW

Alberto Val, 2B, Last Season: 1973
2003 H, 342 2B, 104 HR, 1093 RBI, 743 R
805 K, 1007 BB
.287 AVG, .376 OBP, .392 SLG, .768 OPS
OPS+: 125
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
All Pros: 1966
Divisions: 1969, 1970, 1971, 1973
Pennants: 1966, 1967, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1973
WS Victories: 1966, 1967, 1973
Post Season Record: .277/.323/.399/.721, 2 HR, 24 R, 18 RBI
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: 2B 1
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1994

jdw · 03-09-2008, 11:42 PM

Pitchers
Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
ERA: 2.10
W: 446
K: 4078
CG: 601
SHO: 95
SV: 390

Here's all HOF'er OPS+ for reference:

210 - Andrew Murphy
163 - Frank Smith
162 - Tim Lopresto
161 - Raymond Gindler
158 - Allen Albertini
157 - Jethro Lee
157 - Cecil Tan
150 - Randy Liebermann
145 - Punchy Cote
145 - Howard Adams
145 - Bourbon Allen Jr.
144 - Johnny Cakes Sutton
144 - Wesley McGee
142 - Cotton Simson
138 - Dave McBean
138 - Martin Gwaltney
137 - Mark Krosser
137 - Johnny Swinson
137 - Carpenter Erickson
137 - Joe Helton
136 - Bowie Castellon
135 - Ken Zinn
134 - Otto Kahle
134 - Scott Fenner
133 - Jassen Nelson
131 - Remmy Paul
131 - Luke Riley
131 - Tobe Palmer
129 - David Wiskersham
128 - Brad De la Garza
125 - Adam Sardina
125 - Grady Ingram
124 - Bourbon Allen
124 - Art Booth
121 - Ahrend Nagel
120 - Terry Schukraft
116 - John Nolting
116 - Hal Andrew
115 - Mark Ponfick

jdw · 03-09-2008, 11:42 PM

Bud Ulrich, Last Season: 1962, HOF Standard: 35
210-125, 62.7%, 3.88 ERA
3274.2 IP, 1411 BB, 2085 K, 73 CG, 16 SHO, 1.34 WHIP
ERA+: 108
Murphy Award: NONE
ROY Award: 1949
All Pros: 1952, 1955
Pennants: 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1959
World Championships: 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1959
WS Record: 4-1, 4.77 ERA
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1983

Lex Tjeenk-Willink, Last Season: 1964, HOF Standard: 46
245-170, 59.0%, 3.79 ERA
3877 IP, 1287 BB, 3069 K, 121 CG, 19 SHO, 1.19 WHIP
ERA+: 112
Murphy Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
All Pros: 1957
Pennants: NONE
World Championships: NONE
WS Record: N/A
No-Hitters: 2
Led League in: Wins 1
Career Top 25: K's (10)
Final Year on Ballot: 1985

Hank Makris, Last Season: 1964
214-173, 55.3%, 3.48 ERA
3634.0 IP, 1092 BB, 1563 K, 166 CG, 32 SHO, 1.28 WHIP
ERA+: 124
Murphy Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: 1953, 1958, 1961, 1963
WS MVP: 1957, 1959
All Pros: 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960
Pennants: 1957, 1959
World Championships: 1957, 1959
WS Record: 4-0, 0.82 ERA
No-Hitters: 2
Led League in: SHO 2,
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1986

Cal Granger, Last Season: 1968
100-104, 49.0%, 3.53 ERA
1426.3 IP, 421 BB, 609 K, 390 SV
ERA+: N/A
Murphy Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: NONE
WS MVP: NONE
All Pros: 1952, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1962, 1964; 1950s All Decade Team
Pennants: 1951, 1957, 1958, 1963
World Championships: 1951, 1958
WS Record: 0-1, 3.49 ERA, 4 SV
Led League in: SV 6, G 1
Career Top 25: SV (1), Appearances (1), Relief Innings (1)
Final Year on Ballot: 1988

Brock Putnam, Last Season: 1971
187-106, 63.8%, 2.94 ERA
2869.7 IP, 601 BB, 1636 K, 180 CG, 36 SHO, 1.16 WHIP
ERA+: 134
Murphy Award: 1960
ROY Award: 1960
GG Award: NONE
All Pros: 1960, 1962, 1964
Pennants: 1960, 1961, 1962
World Championships: 1961, 1962
WS Record: 3-0, 2.92 ERA
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: W 1, IP 1, SHO 2
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1991

John Patterson, Last Season: 1972
121-73, 62.4%, 2.68 ERA
1301.3 IP, 192 BB, 872 K, 339 SV
ERA+: N/A
Murphy Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: NONE
WS MVP: NONE
All Pros: 1959, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1965; 1960s All Decade Team
Divisions: 1969, 1970, 1971
Pennants: 1955, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1968, 1970, 1971
World Championships: 1955, 1963
Post Season Record: 4-1, 2.19 ERA, 1 SV
Led League in: SV 6, G 5
Career Top 25: SV (2), Appearances (2), Relief Innings (2)
Final Year on Ballot: 1992

Louis Schmit, Last Season: 1972
244-178, 57.8%, 3.47 ERA
4007.0 IP, 1523 BB, 3528 K, 112 CG, 35 SHO, 1.20 WHIP
ERA+: 118
Murphy Award: 1964, 1966
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: NONE
WS MVP: 1964
All Pros: 1964, 1966
Divisions: 1969
Pennants: 1964, 1965
World Championships: 1964
Post Season Record: 3-2, 3.69 ERA
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 1, W 2, W% 1, SHO 2, K 1
Career Top 25: K (7)
Final Year on Ballot: 1992

Frank Abbott, Last Season: 1973
186-141, 56.9%, 3.49 ERA
3130.1 IP, 1520 BB, 2245 K, 93 CG, 27 SHO, 1.36 WHIP
ERA+: 118
Murphy Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: NONE
WS MVP: NONE
All Pros: 1961
Divisions: 1969
Pennants: 1968
World Championships: 1968
Post Season Record: 0-0, 0.00 ERA
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: SHO 1
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1993

Roosevelt Wurth, Last Season: 1973
222-149, 59.8%, 3.60 ERA
3543.2 IP, 416 BB, 2065 K, 179 CG, 16 SHO, 1.11 WHIP
ERA+: 111
Murphy Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: NONE
WS MVP: NONE
All Pros: NONE
Divisions: 1973
Pennants: 1959, 1965, 1973
World Championships: 1973
Post Season Record: 0-2, 4.13 ERA
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: W% 1, CG 1, WHIP 1
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1993

NEW

Charley Harrington, Last Season: 1974
246-182, 57.5%, 3.32 ERA
3972.0 IP, 1325 BB, 3437 K, 73 CG, 14 SHO, 1.15 WHIP
ERA+: 125
Murphy Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: NONE
WS MVP: NONE
All Pros: 1966
Divisions: 1971
Pennants: 1966
World Championships: NONE
Post Season Record: 0-1, 5.69 ERA
No-Hitters: 1 (Perfect Game)
Led League in: W 1, W% 1, K 1
Career Top 25: K 11
Final Year on Ballot: 1994

Curly Roberts, Last Season: 1972
206-198, 51.0%, 3.76 ERA
3673.1 IP, 933 BB, 2152 K, 141 CG, 22 SHO, 1.21 WHIP
ERA+: 111
Murphy Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: NONE
WS MVP: NONE
All Pros: 1961, 1964
Divisions: NONE
Pennants: 1966
World Championships: NONE
Post Season Record: 1-0, 5.14 ERA
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 1, CG 2, IP 2
Career Top 25: NONE
Final Year on Ballot: 1993

Levi Sellers, Last Season: 1973
281-175, 61.6%, 3.19 ERA
4248.2 IP, 1076 BB, 3771 K, 158 CG, 33 SHO, 1.07 WHIP
ERA+: 125
Murphy Award: 1969
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: NONE
WS MVP: NONE
All Pros: 1959, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1969
Divisions: 1969, 1970, 1971, 1973
Pennants: 1966, 1967, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1973
WS Victories: 1966, 1967, 1973
Post Season Record: 3-9, 3.66 ERA
No-Hitters: 1
Led League in: W 2, K 5
Career Top 25: K (5th)
Final Year on Ballot: 1994

Perry Wanklen, Last Season: 1974
258-163, 61.3%, 2.90 ERA
4126.2 IP, 1015 BB, 3749 K, 188 CG, 52 SHO, 1.02 WHIP
ERA+: 144
Murphy Award: 1965, 1966, 1967
ROY Award: NONE
GG Award: NONE
WS MVP: 1963
All Pros: 1962, 1963, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1970
Divisions: 1969, 1970, 1973
Pennants: 1962, 1963, 1964, 1968
World Championships: 1963, 1968
Post Season Record: 4-8, 3.69 ERA
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 3, W 2, W% 1, CG 1, SH 2, IP 2, K 4
Career Top 25: K (6th), SHO (12th)
Final Year on Ballot: 1994

NCBeachBum · 03-10-2008, 12:19 AM

David Lawrence
Leo Santiago
Brock Putnam
Perry Wanklen

chowbeng · 03-10-2008, 04:44 AM

LF Leo Santiago
SP Brock Putnam
SP Perry Wanklen

tward13 · 03-10-2008, 07:53 AM

Joyce
Makris
Putnam
Lawrence
Ulrich
Alan
Sellers
Wanklen

jdw · 03-10-2008, 08:57 AM

Jim Alan
Ben Cook
Cal Granger
Charley Harrington
John Patterson
Leo Santiago
Levi Sellers
Henry Thomas
Perry Wanklen
Wilford Woodworth

John

ifspuds · 03-10-2008, 11:04 AM

Thomas
Santiago
Tjeenk-Willink
Makris
Patterson
Sellers
Val (my one homer vote)
Wanklen

How Brock Putnam gets votes but not Levi Sellers, I'm just not sure. Sellers has far more wins, more career top 25s, loads more innings, led the league far more times, holds the National League record for strikeouts in a season, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some things. Not that Sellers isn't going to make it in, but I'm left shaking my head. Wanklen over Sellers? Sure. I can see a strong case for that. But Putnam? Really? Why?

Y0DA55 · 03-12-2008, 10:32 AM

Cook
Joyce
Lawrence
Santiago
Tjeenk-Willink
Granger
Patterson
Schmit
Sellers
Wanklen

jdw · 03-13-2008, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifspuds

How Brock Putnam gets votes but not Levi Sellers, I'm just not sure. Sellers has far more wins, more career top 25s, loads more innings, led the league far more times, holds the National League record for strikeouts in a season, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some things. Not that Sellers isn't going to make it in, but I'm left shaking my head. Wanklen over Sellers? Sure. I can see a strong case for that. But Putnam? Really? Why?

I'm going to guess it's due to the ERA+:

134 - Brock Putnam
125 - Levi Sellers

I probably should have mentioned at the top that they *are not* Park
Adjusted, but rather just against the League.

Putnam pitchers in Dodger Stadium. Sellers didn't. My estimate is that
Putnam had a 0.95 cato-style Park Factor behind him in his career, while
Sellers had a 1.00. Cato-style is the old Pete Palmer / Total Baseball
style of writing it, rather than the STATS Inc method. Dodgers was 10%,
not 5%, below league average in Runs Allowed. The .95 represents it being
cut in half to because teams play half their games at home. The STATS
fashion of representing it as a .90 gives you a clearer picture of how
extreme it is.

I think when people look at just the ERA+ they miss the bigger picture:

1959
ERA
3.21 Sellers (4th in NL)

1969
2.73 Sellers (7th in NL)

In 1959, Putnam pitchers 8.2 Innings.

In 1969, Putnam had a 5.29 ERA and lost his job as a starter... for good.

Sellers was a great starter the year before Putnam's rookie Double, and
the year Putnam lost his job.

He was was actually an effective starter in 1958, 1970 and 1971 as well.
Putnam didn't even get 8.2 innings in the bigs in 1958, and was a bad
pullpen pitcher in 1970-71.

In addition to that, Putnam began declining in 1968: a 3.25 ERA in a
league with a 3.32 "avegage" and in a 0.96 Park - the low point of the
Pitchers Era in a great Pitchers Park.

Comp those six seasons in terms of Win Shares:

Code:

YR  Sellers  Putnam
58   18.8      0.0 (DNP)
59   31.5      1.8
68   23.9     12.9
69   27.1      1.0
70   15.6      1.5
71   19.7      1.0

That's a huge 136.6 vs. 18.2 advantage.

Seller's *worst* year in that stretch, 1970, was still better than the
most Putnam could put on the board with his "around league average"
performance in 1968. The stretch also included two of Sellers best years
along with another strong one ni 1968 (5th in the NL in ERA).

Which reduces voting for Putnam and not Sellers to Putnam's 1960-67 eight
year "prime" as kicking the crap out of what Sellers did in those years.

Code:

YR  Sellers  Putnam
60   25.8     22.7
61   18.0     24.4
62   23.4     23.3
63   24.3     27.0
64   21.7     29.2
65   28.6     26.2
66   25.8     27.1
67   24.9     23.0
Tot 192.5    202.9

Putnam *was* a better pitcher over the course of those eight years. But
take a step back - it was *8* years. Here's their average:

25.4 Putnam
24.1 Sellers

That's pretty small. And then the key thing is to look at where they were
in indivuidual seasons. It's not like Putnam is "average" 25.4 but that's
made up of four straight 30 seasons and then four around them that were
20. Instead. 25.4 pretty well defines where Putnam was: 23-27 with one
outliners up to 29.

24.1 also pretty well defines Sellers: 23-28, with a couple of seasons on
the lower side.

If you look at the individual seasons, Sellers was better in 3, Putnam in
4 and 1962 was a wash.

Overall, Putnam's advantage in 1960-67 is small. If we count just one
additional season:

Code:

YR  Sellers  Putnam
68   23.9     12.9

It vannishes. And that ignores this:

Code:

YR  Sellers  Putnam
58   18.8      0.0 (DNP)
59   31.5      1.8
69   27.1      1.0
70   15.6      1.5
71   19.7      1.0

Which includes two of Sellers best seasons which fall just outside the
person where Putnam was an effective major league starter. It also
includes three more seasons where Sellers himself was an effective
starter.

The only thing "close" about the pair is the 1960-67 period, 1968 if we
stretch it though that would tilt it to being "even" as best. But Sellers
has those five additional seasons of quality pitching where Putnam was
either a scrub or for the most part in the minors.

Overall, they're not close.

John

jdw · 03-13-2008, 03:07 AM

Harrington slightly different because he got lost in the woods for a while
in STL before righting himself in BOS.

Putnam does in fact kick the crap out of Harrington in *Putnam's* prime:

Which reduces voting for Putnam and not Sellers to Putnam's 1960-67 eight
year "prime" as kicking the crap out of what Sellers did in those years.

Code:

YR  Charley  Putnam
60   13.3     22.7
61   12.6     24.4
62   15.0     23.3
63   22.3     27.0
64   23.2     29.2
65   16.6     26.2
66   26.4     27.1
67   15.9     23.0
Tot 145.3    202.9

That's large. Here's their average:

25.4 Putnam
18.2 Sellers

You also have the issue of "Good Harrington" being up in the 22-26 range,
while "Average Harrington" is down in the 13-16 range. He simply wasn't
consistent.

On the other hand, you do have some of that Sellers action going on with
strong seasons being left off because they don't happen to line up with
Putnam's eight year prime:

Harrington ERA
1956-4-3.04
1958-4-3.23
----------------
1968-6-2.39
1969-4-2.41

Okay, he wasn't consistent, but when he was "on", he was awfully good. So
what's missing?

Code:

YR  Charley  Putnam
55   13.4      0.0 (DNP)
56   26.8      0.0 (DNP)
57    3.1      0.0 (DNP)
58   25.4      0.0 (DNP)
59    8.9      1.8
68   21.9     12.9
69   22.7      1.0
70   17.2      1.5

Charley did pitch in the pen in 1971-74 after losing his endurance, and
was passable but not really adding a lot of value beyond what's cited
above. He was much better in the pen in 1971-74 than Putnam was in 1970.

That's a similar huge 139.4 vs. 18.2 advantage.

Again as we saw when lining up Charley with Putnam's peak, he can be all
over the place. He was a horrible pitcher in 1957 and 1959. He got way
out of sorts with the Cardinals, and never full regained the confidence of
the organization.

On the other hand, he was brillant in 1955 (2.15 ERA in 117 IP in a 4.04
ERA league), 1956 and 1958. He also was very strong in the 1968-69
seasons (the difference is largely the move from a 4 man rotation to a
league wide 5-man rule).

So Charley wasn't consistent. But did he stack up? Let's re-order these
from top to bottom:

Code:

YR  Charley  YR  Putnam
56   26.8    64    29.2
66   26.4    66    27.1
58   25.4    63    27.0
64   23.2    65    26.2
69   22.7    61    24.4
63   22.3    62    23.3
68   21.9    67    23.0
70   17.2    60    22.7
65   16.6    68    12.9
67   15.9    59     1.8
62   15.0    70     1.5
55   13.4    69     1.0
60   13.3    55     0.0 (DNP)
61   12.6    56     0.0 (DNP)
59    8.9    57     0.0 (DNP)
57    3.1    58     0.0 (DNP)

Putnam is better at his best and consistent. It's a reason that I
typically vote for Putnam.

But I think overall, the career that I would rather have is Harrington's.
He combined high end work with a lot of additional years of being a
valuable addition to a rotation.

I think they both warrant going in.

John

jeheinz72 · 03-21-2008, 12:35 PM

Ben Cook
David Lawrence
Jim Alan
Leo Santiago
Lex Tjeenk-Willink
Cal Granger
Brock Putnam
John Patterson
Perry Wanklen
Levi Sellers

knightni · 03-24-2008, 06:34 PM

Wil Woodworth
Grumpy Noel
Roger Joyce
Lex Tjeenk-Willink
Louis Schmit
Jim Alan
Roosevelt Wurth
Charley Harrington
Levi Sellers
Perry Wanklen

fvamos · 03-24-2008, 07:31 PM

Thomas
Alan
Cruz
Granger
Sellers
Wanklen
Harrington

Vris · 03-24-2008, 08:22 PM

Henry Thomas
Leo Santiago
Tjeenk-Willink
Makris
Putnam
Schmidt
Sellers
Wanklen

metsgeek · 03-24-2008, 08:52 PM

Tjeenk-Willink
Harrington
Sellers
Schmit
Wanklen
Roberts (homer vote)

Santiago
Alan
Arbour
Lawrence

03-09-2008, 11:39 PM	#1
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Time Warp HOF Ballot 1980 This is the annual Time Warp Baseball League Hall of Fame thread. Two members of the Pirates Dynasty of the 60s and early 70s, including the first of their trio of aces to hit the ballot. Also the first pitcher to win the Murphy Award in different leagues in consecutive seasons, part of his run of three straight awards. Have at it. John

03-10-2008, 12:19 AM	#8
NCBeachBum All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Topsail Island, NC, USA Posts: 1,049	David Lawrence Leo Santiago Brock Putnam Perry Wanklen __________________ And ain't that a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame, the way you do Oh, it's a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame on you

03-10-2008, 11:04 AM	#12
ifspuds Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 2,117	Thomas Santiago Tjeenk-Willink Makris Patterson Sellers Val (my one homer vote) Wanklen How Brock Putnam gets votes but not Levi Sellers, I'm just not sure. Sellers has far more wins, more career top 25s, loads more innings, led the league far more times, holds the National League record for strikeouts in a season, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some things. Not that Sellers isn't going to make it in, but I'm left shaking my head. Wanklen over Sellers? Sure. I can see a strong case for that. But Putnam? Really? Why? __________________ Jeff Watson Former dynasty writer and online league player, now mostly retired

03-12-2008, 10:32 AM	#13
Y0DA55 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In the middle of the Yankees/Red Sox Rivalry Posts: 1,771	Cook Joyce Lawrence Santiago Tjeenk-Willink Granger Patterson Schmit Sellers Wanklen __________________ Do, or do not, there is no try!

03-13-2008, 03:07 AM	#15
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Harrington slightly different because he got lost in the woods for a while in STL before righting himself in BOS. Putnam does in fact kick the crap out of Harrington in Putnam's prime: Which reduces voting for Putnam and not Sellers to Putnam's 1960-67 eight year "prime" as kicking the crap out of what Sellers did in those years. Code: YR Charley Putnam 60 13.3 22.7 61 12.6 24.4 62 15.0 23.3 63 22.3 27.0 64 23.2 29.2 65 16.6 26.2 66 26.4 27.1 67 15.9 23.0 Tot 145.3 202.9 That's large. Here's their average: 25.4 Putnam 18.2 Sellers You also have the issue of "Good Harrington" being up in the 22-26 range, while "Average Harrington" is down in the 13-16 range. He simply wasn't consistent. On the other hand, you do have some of that Sellers action going on with strong seasons being left off because they don't happen to line up with Putnam's eight year prime: Harrington ERA 1956-4-3.04 1958-4-3.23 ---------------- 1968-6-2.39 1969-4-2.41 Okay, he wasn't consistent, but when he was "on", he was awfully good. So what's missing? Code: YR Charley Putnam 55 13.4 0.0 (DNP) 56 26.8 0.0 (DNP) 57 3.1 0.0 (DNP) 58 25.4 0.0 (DNP) 59 8.9 1.8 68 21.9 12.9 69 22.7 1.0 70 17.2 1.5 Charley did pitch in the pen in 1971-74 after losing his endurance, and was passable but not really adding a lot of value beyond what's cited above. He was much better in the pen in 1971-74 than Putnam was in 1970. That's a similar huge 139.4 vs. 18.2 advantage. Again as we saw when lining up Charley with Putnam's peak, he can be all over the place. He was a horrible pitcher in 1957 and 1959. He got way out of sorts with the Cardinals, and never full regained the confidence of the organization. On the other hand, he was brillant in 1955 (2.15 ERA in 117 IP in a 4.04 ERA league), 1956 and 1958. He also was very strong in the 1968-69 seasons (the difference is largely the move from a 4 man rotation to a league wide 5-man rule). So Charley wasn't consistent. But did he stack up? Let's re-order these from top to bottom: Code: YR Charley YR Putnam 56 26.8 64 29.2 66 26.4 66 27.1 58 25.4 63 27.0 64 23.2 65 26.2 69 22.7 61 24.4 63 22.3 62 23.3 68 21.9 67 23.0 70 17.2 60 22.7 65 16.6 68 12.9 67 15.9 59 1.8 62 15.0 70 1.5 55 13.4 69 1.0 60 13.3 55 0.0 (DNP) 61 12.6 56 0.0 (DNP) 59 8.9 57 0.0 (DNP) 57 3.1 58 0.0 (DNP) Putnam is better at his best and consistent. It's a reason that I typically vote for Putnam. But I think overall, the career that I would rather have is Harrington's. He combined high end work with a lot of additional years of being a valuable addition to a rotation. I think they both warrant going in. John

03-09-2008, 11:40 PM	#3
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Here's all HOF'er OPS+ for reference: 189 - 2B Woody Woodson 186 - LF Ray Kress 166 - CF Dark Horse Allen 163 - 2B Jason Tedford 159 - SS Whitey Kohse 158 - LF Oscar Vancini 156 - 1B Charlton Brown 152 - 2B Jed Burke 152 - 1B Patrick Seifried 152 - 1B Arnie Stewart 152 - 1B Shigeo Oh 149 - 2B Genaro Nunez 148 - C Whiskey Allen 148 - 1B Ken Chaucer 147 - 1B Lonny Arrendale 146 - CF Peaches Badeau 146 - 3B Dave Lemmings 145 - SS Blake Crocitto 145 - LF Paul Lett 142 - C Hershel Lee 141 - CF 1B Ben Baum 141 - RF Tee Carver 141 - LF Ogden Wing 141 - RF Asa Booker 141 - RF/CF Andrew Vamos 140 - CF Bud Breckenridge 140 - RF John Falise 140 - CF Ray Brown 140 - RF Scott Podlasek 140 - 3B Dale Lamberty 140 - 2B Bobby Martin 139 - LF Dewey Mickelsen 139 - SS/2B Tom Howard 138 - RF Tyrell Chestnut 138 - LF Wolter Tjeenk-Willink 138 - C John Degal 138 - CF Rudel Dietrich 137 - 2B Kid Fite 137 - LF Will Miller 137 - 3B Steven Bussell 137 - 1B Ted McMurray 136 - C Harry Cohan 136 - 1B Jared Jarry 135 - C/1B John Klehammer 135 - OF Jimmy Ditty 134 - 3B Carl Kahle 134 - 2B Alan Liao Jr. 133 - 2B Slap Hertzog 133 - SS Flaky Arsenault 133 - CF Roy Hobbs 133 - CF Dave Arkless 133 - 2B Matt Perly 133 - CF Mark Silcox 132 - SS Adolf Greisbach 132 - LF John Schmieder 132 - 1B Cookie Parrish 131 - C Chuck Rauch 131 - RF Nick Graves 131 - 2B Hans Habermehl 131 - RF William Perry 130 - C Sunny Davie 129 - C Tom Turley 129 - RF George Ward 129 - CF Ping Hung 129 - C Herman Dunkel 129 - RF Moonlight Graham 128 - SS Morris Lutske 127 - CF Campbell Ditty 127 - 3B Troy Kinnear 127 - SS Mike Fellner 126 - LF Glendon Zegri 125 - 2B Herm Vardaman 125 - 2B Mike Kreitenberg 124 - SS Levi Walls 124 - SS Kenneth Whitt 123 - SS Dale Reneau 123 - 3B Alan Liao, Sr. 122 - CF Sam Kass 122 - 1B Sal Rossi 121 - 1B Quenton Misisca 120 - 2B/CF Ervin Skjerly 118 - 3B August Kahle 114 - 2B/SS Jonny Perly 114 - CF Jon Minzey 110 - 3B David McAuliffe 110 - SS Ted Stuart 104 - SS Dennis Ward 102 - C Harry Finley

03-09-2008, 11:42 PM	#6
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Pitchers Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List): ERA: 2.10 W: 446 K: 4078 CG: 601 SHO: 95 SV: 390 Here's all HOF'er OPS+ for reference: 210 - Andrew Murphy 163 - Frank Smith 162 - Tim Lopresto 161 - Raymond Gindler 158 - Allen Albertini 157 - Jethro Lee 157 - Cecil Tan 150 - Randy Liebermann 145 - Punchy Cote 145 - Howard Adams 145 - Bourbon Allen Jr. 144 - Johnny Cakes Sutton 144 - Wesley McGee 142 - Cotton Simson 138 - Dave McBean 138 - Martin Gwaltney 137 - Mark Krosser 137 - Johnny Swinson 137 - Carpenter Erickson 137 - Joe Helton 136 - Bowie Castellon 135 - Ken Zinn 134 - Otto Kahle 134 - Scott Fenner 133 - Jassen Nelson 131 - Remmy Paul 131 - Luke Riley 131 - Tobe Palmer 129 - David Wiskersham 128 - Brad De la Garza 125 - Adam Sardina 125 - Grady Ingram 124 - Bourbon Allen 124 - Art Booth 121 - Ahrend Nagel 120 - Terry Schukraft 116 - John Nolting 116 - Hal Andrew 115 - Mark Ponfick

03-10-2008, 04:44 AM	#9
chowbeng Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 42	LF Leo Santiago SP Brock Putnam SP Perry Wanklen

03-10-2008, 07:53 AM	#10
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,964	Joyce Makris Putnam Lawrence Ulrich Alan Sellers Wanklen

03-10-2008, 08:57 AM	#11
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Jim Alan Ben Cook Cal Granger Charley Harrington John Patterson Leo Santiago Levi Sellers Henry Thomas Perry Wanklen Wilford Woodworth John

03-21-2008, 12:35 PM	#16
jeheinz72 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 2,164	Ben Cook David Lawrence Jim Alan Leo Santiago Lex Tjeenk-Willink Cal Granger Brock Putnam John Patterson Perry Wanklen Levi Sellers __________________ Join The Dugout!

03-24-2008, 06:34 PM	#17
knightni Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 80	Wil Woodworth Grumpy Noel Roger Joyce Lex Tjeenk-Willink Louis Schmit Jim Alan Roosevelt Wurth Charley Harrington Levi Sellers Perry Wanklen __________________ DPBL 2013, 2019 WS Champs Cincinnati Reds Time Warp 1971 WS Champs Oakland A's

03-24-2008, 07:31 PM	#18
fvamos Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 75	Thomas Alan Cruz Granger Sellers Wanklen Harrington

03-24-2008, 08:22 PM	#19
Vris Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: somewhere where I don't know where I am Posts: 3,251	Henry Thomas Leo Santiago Tjeenk-Willink Makris Putnam Schmidt Sellers Wanklen __________________ None Blog it.

03-24-2008, 08:52 PM	#20
metsgeek Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 5,450	Tjeenk-Willink Harrington Sellers Schmit Wanklen Roberts (homer vote) Santiago Alan Arbour Lawrence __________________ Commissioner - PBRL - Just finished 2009 109 seasons and still running strong!!!