Vote: Time Warp HOF Induction 1937

[Matt from TN]

The initial HOF class has been chosen, so now comes perhaps an even more difficult challenge - picking the second class to be inducted. We poured over the best of the best in the first voting thread, but now we must dig a little deeper. Many, if not all, of these players will someday be in the HOF, but when rated against each other, who deserves to be part of the second overall class?

The players elected to the RL HOF in 1937 were Nap Lajoie, Tris Speaker and Cy Young.

I listed only the remaining players with HOF Standards scores of 50 or better.

Vote for as many or as few as you want. Max votes are 10.

HOF Standard: 50 is considered an average HOF'er. 100 is max.

Batters

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
AVG: .369
Hits: 3942
HR: 305
RBI: 1693
2B: 665
BB: 1643
R: 1963
SB: 895


Whitey Kohse, SS, Last Season: 1932, HOF Standard: 74
2749 H, 660 2B, 131 HR, 1346 RBI, 1523 R, 853 K, 1643 BB, 164 SB, .324 AVG, .939 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 4
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: OBP 5, SLG 3, OPS 5, Doubles 4, Runs 1, Walks 6
Career Top 10: RBI, Doubles, Walks (#1), Runs


Whiskey Allen, C, Last Season: 1922, HOF Standard: 72
3291 H, 301 2B, 24 HR, 1112 RBI, 1558 R, 661 K, 691 BB, 703 SB, .343 AVG, .842 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 1
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: 4
Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 2, OPS 3, Hits 2
Career Top 10: Hits, Runs, Steals


Tom Turley, C, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 71
3098 H, 395 2B, 131 HR, 1502 RBI, 1653 R, 931 K, 1454 BB, 420 SB, .293 AVG, .814 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 0
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: 0
Led League in: Walks 1
Career Top 10: Hits, RBI, Runs, Walks


Harry "The Haymaker" Cohan, C, Last Season: 1928, HOF Standard: 60
3208 H, 266 2B, 43 HR, 1161 RBI, 1168 R, 632 K, 547 BB, 59 SB, .353 AVG, .825 OPS
BOY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 9
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: 3
Led League in: SLG 1, OPS 1, Hits 2
Career Top 10: AVG, Hits


"Flaky" Arsenault, SS, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 59
3511 H, 351 2B, 28 HR, 1330 RBI, 1661 R, 446 K, 1012 BB, 359 SB, .336 AVG, .838 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: 1
Gold Gloves: 3
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Hits 1, Runs 1
Career Top 10: Hits, Runs


John "Pops" Falise, RF, Last Season: 1932, HOF Standard: 59
3152 H, 544 2B, 236 HR, 1693 RBI, 1661 R, 1091 K, 855 BB, 45 SB, .302 AVG, .865 OPS
BOY Award: 4
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 4
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 2, OPS 1, 3B 2, HR 3, RBI 3
Career Top 10: Hits, HR, RBI (#1), 2B, 3B (#1), Runs


Jed Burke, 2B, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 59
2950 H, 265 2B, 18 HR, 1055 RBI, 1228 R, 600 K, 921 BB, 138 SB, .345 AVG, .851 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 1
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: 3
Led League in: OBP 4, SLG1, OPS 2, Hits 3, BB 1
Career Top 10: NONE


Campbell Ditty, CF, Last Season: 1929, HOF Standard: 56
3131 H, 665 2B, 206 HR, 1628 RBI, 1313 R, 628 K, 665 BB, 60 SB, .309 AVG, .797 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 4
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: 2B 3, HR 5, RBI 1
Career Top 10: Hits, HR, RBI, 2B (#1)


Tee Carver, RF, Last Season: 1923, HOF Standard: 54
2908 H, 529 2B, 61 HR, 1399 RBI, 1319 R, 703 K, 1158 BB, 79 SB, .314 AVG, .827 OPS
BOY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 2
Pennants: 5
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: 2B 3, BB 2
Career Top 10: RBI, 2B


"Barefoot" Atkins, CF, Last Season: 1927, HOF Standard: 53
2673 H, 271 2B, 57 HR, 1274 RBI, 1337 R, 686 K, 1077 BB, 96 SB, .308 AVG, .821 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: OBP 1, 3B 1
Career Top 10: NONE


Bop Vacha, 3B, Last Season: 1928, HOF Standard: 52
2641 H, 358 2B, 90 HR, 1268 RBI, 1275 R, 804 K, 1346 BB, 70 SB, .298 AVG, .798 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 10: BB


"Butterball" Klehammer, C, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 52
2638 H, 400 2B, 108 HR, 1161 RBI, 1041 R, 682 K, 584 BB, 12 SB, .311 AVG, .788 OPS
BOY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 1, OPS 1, HR 1, RBI 1
Career Top 10: NONE


Patrick Seifried, 1B, Last Season: 1924, HOF Standard: 51
2720 H, 313 2B, 59 HR, 1195 RBI, 1348 R, 851 K, 1137 BB, 235 SB, .327 AVG, .867 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 5
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: 1
Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 1, OPS 2, RBI 2, Runs 2, BB 3
Career Top 10: NONE


Pitchers

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
ERA: 2.10
W: 359
K: 2612
CG: 601
SHO: 95


Cecil Tan, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 67
292-168, 63.5%, 2.33 ERA, 4328 IP, 695 BB, 1864 K, 431 CG, 74 SHO, 1.09 WHIP
POY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 0
No-Hitters: 1 - Perfect Game
Led League in: ERA 4, WHIP 2, Wins 3, IP 3, K 2, CG 2, SHO 6
Career Top 10: ERA, Wins, CG, SHO


Raymond Gindler, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 66
274-177, 60.8%, 2.21 ERA, 4258.3 IP, 753 BB, 1977 K, 432 CG, 75 SHO, 0.91 WHIP
POY Award: 4
ROY Award: N/A
Pennants: 3
No-Hitters: 2
WS Victories: All 3 pennants were in years without WS
Led League in: ERA 7, WHIP 11, Wins 1, IP 5, K 1, CG 1, SHO 3
Career Top 10: ERA, Wins, CG, SHO


Allen Albertini, Last Season: 1920, HOF Standard: 60
265-147, 64.3%, 2.32 IP, 3982.3 IP, 1275 BB, 1724 K, 306 CG, 59 SHO, 1.05 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 0
WS Victories: 0
No-Hitters: 0
Led League in: ERA 2, WHIP 1, BB 1, SHO 1
Career Top 10: ERA, SHO


Will Haggan, Last Season: 1922, HOF Standard: 58
337-299, 53.0%, 3.28 ERA, 5837.1 IP, 1597 BB, 2612 K, 601 CG, 45 SHO, 1.15 WHIP
POY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 2
No-Hitters: 2
Led League in: Wins 1, Losses 1, IP 2
Career Top 10: Wins, K's (#1), CG (#1)


Mark Krosser, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57
266-181, 59.5%, 2.50 ERA, 4134.2 IP, 653 BB, 2131 K, 419 CG, 39 SHO, 1.10 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: 1
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 3, WHIP 1, Wins 2, IP 1, K's 2, CG 2, SHO 1
Career Top 10: ERA, K's


Bowie Castellon, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57
262-146, 64.2%, 2.52 ERA, 3801 IP, 777 BB, 1298 K, 397 CG, 50 SHO, 1.08 WHIP
POY Award: 2
ROY Award: 1
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 2, WHIP 1, Wins 3, CG 2
Career Top 10: ERA, SHO


Jassen Nelson, Last Season: 1917, HOF Standard: 56
274-196, 58.3%, 2.66 ERA, 4541.2 IP, 862 BB, 2016 K, 412 CG, 51 SHO, 1.08 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 3
No-Hitters: 1 - Perfect Game
Led League in: Wins 1, IP 2, K's 1, SHO 3
Career Top 10: K's


Dave "The Shepard" McBean, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 56
254-151, 62.7%, 2.52 ERA, 3747 IP, 611 BB, 1529 K, 386 CG, 55 SHO, 1.06 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: Wins 3, IP 1, K's 1, CG 3, SHO 1
Career Top 10: ERA, SHO


Howard Adams, Last Season: 1920, HOF Standard: 55
272-192, 58.6%, 2.56 ERA, 4470 IP, 906 BB, 1834 K, 375 CG, 67 SHO, 1.18 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 5
WS Victories: 3
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 2, SHO 2
Career Top 10: ERA, SHO




DO NOT VOTE FOR THESE
Here's the next best players on the HOF Standards Test:
49: CF Donny Engel, 3B "Frenchie" Fournier, CF Thomas Strasser
48: SP Hugh Tiedt
46: SS Marcus Sargent, SP "Nasty Ned" Fargo
45: 2B "Smally" Becker, SP "Greasy" Holloway, SP "Evil" Gary Archer, "Johnny Cakes" Sutton

[lgkeeper]

Allen
Cohan
Turley
(hard to vote for 3 catchers in one ballot, but they all deserve it)
Falise (#1 in RBI and other top 10 appearances make him a lock, imo)
Ditty (4 time GGer, 5 time led lg in HR, lots of top 10s)
Tan (great career numbers)
Gindler (4 POY awards, incredible career WHIP)
Haggan (#1 in K and CG and 337 Wins)

[Gunsmoke]

Whiskey Allen
Harry Cohen
John Falise
Campbell Ditty
Raymond Gindler

[tward13]

W. Allen
Cohan
Turley (what an era for catchers!)
Arsenault
Falise
Tan
Higgan
Gindler

[Vris]

There are definitely more than 10 that I could vote for

Whiskey Allen
Harry Cohen
"Flaky" Arsenault
"Pops" Falise
Campbell Ditty

Raymond Gindler
Will Haggan


This voting thing gets harder and harder. And it's only the second vote!

[Bonedwarf]

Tom Turley
Whiskey Allen
Campbell Ditty
Tee Carver

Raymond Gindler

[NYJuggalo45]

allen
turley
aresnault
felise
ditty
higgan
gindler

[Ankhiel]

allen
kohse
arsenault
falise
ditty
seifried
tan
haggan

[scprideandms]

Allen
Kohse
Arsenault
Ditty

[Matt from TN]

Here's the first update:

Whiskey Allen	       100.00%
Campbell Ditty	        87.50%
John Falise	        75.00%
Raymond Gindler	        75.00%
Flaky Arsenault	        62.50%
Will Haggan	        62.50%
Tom Turley	        50.00%
Harry Cohan   	        50.00%
Cecil Tan	        37.50%
Whitey Kohse	        25.00%
Tee Carver	        12.50%
Patrick Seifried	12.50%
Jed Burke	         0.00%
"Barefoot" Atkins	 0.00%
Bop Vacha	         0.00%
"Butterball" Klehammer	 0.00%
Allen Albertini	         0.00%
Mark Krosser	         0.00%
Bowie Castellon	         0.00%
Jassen Nelson	         0.00%
Dave McBean	         0.00%
Howard Adams	         0.00%

[tward13]

Uh oh, better contact the Cohan fan club again.

[jdw]

Alphabetically:

Whiskey Allen
Jean-Francois Arsenault
Jed Burke
Harry Cohan
Raymond Gindler
John Falise
Patrick Seifried
Cecil Tan

Matt - a correction to Seifried:

He won 3 BOTY awards - 1908, 1910 and 1911. He's the first AL player to win three BOTY (Fabian Allen in the NL was the first), and he was the first player in TWB to win consecutive BOTY.

Here's a trio of pieces out of Time Warp history on Seifried:

1914:
"The Federal League began play this season, hoping to create a third major league. In doing so, several players were raided from the National and American Leagues. Every player who jumped to the Federal League was black listed from the NL and AL. Here is a list of the more well-known players who left for the Federal League:

Jean-Pierre Stepro, 1B, Boston Red Sox
Patrick Seifried, 1B, Cleveland Broncos (3-time POTY)
Harry Harvey, LF, St. Louis Cardinals
Floyd Kubitzki, SS, Washington Senators
Jesse Whitfield, SP, New York Yankees

To View All Black Listed Players, Click Here
http://www.cdml.ootp-leagues.com/twb/bl1914.html"


1916:
"The American and National Leagues came to a peace agreement with the Federal League. Part of that agreement allowed several Federal League players to rejoin the NL and AL as free agents. The most notable name was first baseman Patrick Seifried, who signed with the offensively-starved Yankees. Seifried made a name for himself as a big hitter in the Federal League just as he had with Cleveland."

1924/25 Off Season:
"Patrick Seifried, 1B, Cleveland Blues 1906-1913, New York Yankees 1916-1924

Seifried began his career as a big young talent for Cleveland's growing dynasty. He left the team after the 1913 season to play in the now-defunct Federal League for two seasons. He was black-balled for leaving, but after the league folded, he was allowed to return. He signed with Cleveland's main nemesis, the Yankees. There he continued his great career, but never did he taste World Series victory. He retired with a .327 average (10th All-Time), 2720 hits (9th All-Time), 1195 RBI (6th All-Time), 1348 runs (6th All-Time) and 1137 walks (4th All-Time). In Cleveland he was part of one of the best baserunning teams in history. He accumulated 303 triples (13th All-Time) and 235 stolen bases. He also won the 1910 and 1911 BOTY Awards, and he was awarded 6 Gold Gloves."




John

[rogmax11]

In order of preference ( though all are worthy ):

Allen
Arsenault
Cohan
Tan
Falise
Gindler
Kohse
Ditty
Haggan
Turley

[bigjas]

White Kohse
Whiskey Allen
Tom Turley
Harry Cohan
Cecil Tan
Raymond Gindler
Allen Albertini

[Hank Greenberg]

Whiskey Allen- Obvious
Cohan-Obvious
Falise- His dominance of league as well as being on so many great teams puts him in on "legend" status IMHO.

Nobody else has the dominance factor these three had for batters.

Cecil Tan- Wins plus winning percentage get him in.
Ray Gindler- Was incredibly dominate plus had the great teams.

Snubs:
Whitey Kohse- Didn't dominate the league, this, like the first time, was for those who dominate.

Tom Turley- Never won a BOY or Batting Title, hard to justify vs the other three who made it in.

Jed Burkey- So close to putting him in based on dominance, but he just doesnt have the career #s to justify it (vs say Falise).

Albertini- Lack of awards.

Haggan- Far to close to .500 to be elite.

If you cant tell, I put guys in based off dominace and legacy (team accomplishments, awards) in these early ballots. There is a huge difference between the guys I put in vs the guys who I snubbed, while they all deserve it at some point, I cant justifty Gindler and Albertini or Allen and Turley making it on the same ballot.

[lgkeeper]

Originally posted by Hank Greenberg
Cohan-Obvious

I agree, though for others it hasn't been so obvious - last count was 50% though we've gotten a few votes in the recent posts.

If I have to make a case (along with TWard's help) I will.

[tward13]

Whew, at least Hank's on my side this time. Don't think I could have gone through that again!

[Hank Greenberg]

Originally posted by tward13
Whew, at least Hank's on my side this time. Don't think I could have gone through that again!

Comeon, it'd be fun

[tward13]

Nah, been there, done that. We'll pick a different fight in another year or two!

[Carlton]

Why Whiskey Allen, Raymond Gindler and Flaky Arsneault are NOT HOFers and WHO should belong
Danny "Doubleheader" Tripoli
New York Times

As I sit and look at the inaugral HOF class, one conspiracy is that Whiskey Allen was not there. Well there is a good reason.

Whiskey, although the 1st man to have 3000 hits, a .400 average, was a cancer on his team. Yes he won two WS rings, but was it due to his anemic .230 WS average?

I think not

In fact one of his rings, came courtesy of him...not playing!!

He could hit the ball, no one can deny that, but unlike his contemporary Harry Cohan, he was terrible defensively. Cohan was the amrk of greatness behind the plate, and shares the Majors record of two no hitters caught and the ML leader in assists, putouts and range factor. As great as Cohan was behind the plate that's how bad Whiskey Allen was...

Whiskey still holds the ML record for catchers in Passed Balls, errors and worst fielding %...and his antics, drinking and demanding of trades, as early as his 2nd season caused distraction on a talented ball club that should have won many more rings.

I sat down with what I consider the more talented of the early Cleveland tams "Frenchie" Fournier and posed a question on how Whiskey Allen was around the early part of his career.

"Well" stated Frenchie, "Whiskey was a hard man to become friends wit, ya know? He couldn't understand why no one was as talented as he was, and it frustrated him...plus from what I heard from dem pitchers, he would walk out and tell them if they couldn't pitch then get the hell out of Cleveland...right in the middle of the game! He was fiery, but I think maybe too much. He was mad when he didn't win Roookie of the Year, and he told dem writers to shove it...and it cost him Batter of the Year, the next year...well that was it...he wanted to be admired, but the way he acted dem writers hated his guts...after that year, sometimes we had to send the mascot ball to the local tavern 20 minutes 'fore the game...cause he was drinking shot after shot, trading game balls for more drinks."

And the alcohol not only affect his already surly attitude, but affected his health, always when Cleveland needed him the most.

As for the second man, I will go to the grave KNOWING...that Flaky Arsneault threw that 1919 World Series, and to top it off, he made terrible plays in the '20 World Series to boot. Why Abe Attell never pointed the finger at Flaky is beyond me, but I was at both World Series and it was obvious...he was not on the up and up. Yet he will get in and it will be a tarnish to the HOF.

Raymond Gindler, another player who for some reason, like Whiskey, was great when it didn't matter, but was hurt or for some reason faltered when the rumors of gamblers was around, and as Frenchie told me...it was the St. Louis defense that was feared and not Gindler.

"I 'member," recalls Fournier "Dem Browns teams had 3 great guys on defense, (Edmund) Dordan at 1st, he would try and git ya wit that hidden ball trick...and he got Whiskey 'bout 4 times one year, plus he and Turley, when he was wit the Browns would run a pickoff throw and Dordan would pretend it got by him, then easy throw it to 2nd and you were a dead duck...guy named (Fabian) White at 2nd...he was a vacuum, ya couldn't pull the ball if you was a lefty, cause he played almost in RF and would leap and rob ya...and if you tried and spike 'em to break up the double play, he'd smack the teeth outta ya mouth and then pour tabasco right on the dugout steps in full view of ya, just to shows ya, he didn't care...that itimidated some of the young guys...and that guy on 3rd Ralph Nida...man...he took away the bunt, no way you could bunt wit a guy on 3rd cause he'd smack the guy in the gut and with that arm, would rope it to 1st wit a double play...and Ray Gindler, well thats why his ERA was always low...he'd just throw it low and let the defense take you out!"

That leads me to WHO should be in the next class, let's talk about some of the guys who aren't eligible for some reason...well "Frenchie Fournier is one...the leader of those early Cleveland teams, and a;ways overshadowed by the defense wizardry of Nida, he was always 2nd best defensivly, but unlike Nida, he won multiple POTM awards and drove the Cleveland team, especially the year Whiskey for whatever reason decided to skip.

Another man is "Dark Horse" Allen, most of his great seasons came before the AL came about, but he was the driving force behind the 1st 3 Philly pennant winners, and as many state, they became baseball players...because they wanted to be "Dark Horse Allen.

"Shepard" McBean...no one was more feared in his prime than McBean, who is still the only man to strike out 15 in a game. He still holds the Senators ERA and wins record. However, arm troubles and a terrible head fracture made his career short and the head shot in particular, forced his decline. He had constant dizzy spells on the mound and sometimes seizures.

"Shepard," Fornier states, "That Senators team for the most part was an easy 3 games, unless Shepard was pitching. He would stare ya down and if you crowded the plate would throw 3 inside pitches, then pop 3 outside after you backed off, and you'd just let 'em go, cause you were off the plate so much, you couldn't reach 'em if ya tried. Then the next time, he'd knew if you figured it out, then he'd throw 3 right over the plate with that spitter and you'd never even have a chance. After his terrible accident, he wasn't as fast or dominant, but he'd always out thinks ya...he was a smart man...and he was the only reason dem bums won the 1913 World Series...I think he still holds that record for 3 wins. As far as I am concerned, Shepard was the 2nd best pitcher I ever faced, right behind (Andrew) Murphy. That 1913 year, well McBean carried that team...no one thought they could beat the Cubs...no one except Shepard"

In fact, Frenchie is right, no other pitcher has matched the dominance of Shepard McBean taking the hapless Senators from 7th to 1st and what many thought would be an easy sweep for the way more talented Cubs team...McBean shut down the power and speed of the Cubs. It is still is considered the biggest World Series upset ever.

As for Washington they had another great player, Catcher Tom Turley, whom many consider the second best cather ever after Harry Cohan...

"Turley," Founrier says, "He had a great arm, and he did some many things to help his team win, he'd talk to you make you off balance when yous was batting, and he was the first to wear shinguards, and man, he'd pick you off at first if you were paying attention. As for stealing, well, no one ever tried to steal on Turley...unless you had a slow pitcher on the mound, cause he could throw from his knees, and hit a perfect striek down to second. Plus he was quick on the bases, I think he hit so many triples for a catcher."

and last but not least, another guy who dominated in the pre 1900 era..."Evil" Gary Archer...he nickname was well earned, he still has the ML record for hits batsmen, wild pitches and career ending headshots. Frenchie remembers him quite well

"Archer? He was the reson I jumped to the AL, he tried to take my head off on more than one occasion, no one wanted to face him, and when you did, you tried to hit singles, cause if you hit a HR or a triple, next time you were up, you knew you were getting one between the eyes...the man was just plain nasty and a jerk. He'd hit his own mother if he would have won a game."

As for the last guy...John "Pops" Falise?

"Pops" Fournier says, "Even before the new ball came into play, he was a slugger, I saw him in Pittsburgh, which was a HUGE park and he almost hit 'em out...and then he could walk to 3rd...with all these HRS now, many don't realize in my time, it was the triple that made you a slugger, and Pops was the best, he never stole alot of bases, but thats cause he was on 2nd or 3rd most of the time...I still remember calling a game in Brooklyn when he hit his 3 homeruns, I think one of those pitches bounced on home plate and he still hit it 500 feet...that guy was amazing"

So that is why my vote goes to these guys for the HOF

Harry Cohan
Dave "Shepard" McBean
"Dark Horse" Allen
"Frenchie" Fournier
"Evil" Gary Archer
John "Pops" Falise

The heck with HOF standards...the HOF is for the best of the best...the guys who never gave up, who always hustled...who gave it all on the field and none were better than these men!