VOTE: Time Warp Initial HOF Induction 1936

Matt from TN · 05-20-2004, 03:12 PM

In 1936, the first class of Hall of Famers were inducted. They included the best of the best: Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner.

Since the 1936 season in Time Warp is fast approaching, I decided to get this thread started now. Vote for whomever you think is appropriate for this initial class by replying with their names. Players with at least 75% of votes will be inducted. I reserve the right to add or remove a player if far too many or too few get 75%, although I don't expect that to happen.

I selected only players with scores of 60 or above on the HOF Standards test, because I want this initial class to be extremely exclusive. All players on this list are likely to be in the HOF, but we want THE BEST for our initial class. Be as exclusive as you deem necessary. Fear not, after this initial class goes in, all other deserving players will be eligible for the next induction.

The next two threads list batters and then pitchers. Vote for as many or as few as you want from among both posts. Please DO NOT vote for the players on the "Next on HOF Standards" list.

Who deserves to be forever remembered as the very best in our initial HOF class?

HOF Standard: 50 is considered an average HOF'er. 100 is max.

Batters

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
AVG: .369
Hits: 3657
HR: 276
RBI: 1693
2B: 665
BB: 1643
R: 1843
SB: 811

Genaro "Tito" Nunez, 2B, Last Season: 1931, HOF Standard: 76
3338 H, 384 2B, 63 HR, 1220 RBI, 1843 R, 448 K, 1109 BB, 789 SB, .346 AVG, .901 OPS
BOY Award: 1
ROY Award: 1
Gold Gloves: 8
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: 4
Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 6, OPS 6, Runs 3, BB 1, SB 10
Career Top 10: Hits, Triples, Runs (#1), Steals

Whitey Kohse, SS, Last Season: 1932, HOF Standard: 74
2749 H, 660 2B, 131 HR, 1346 RBI, 1523 R, 853 K, 1643 BB, 164 SB, .324 AVG, .939 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 4
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: OBP 5, SLG 3, OPS 5, Doubles 4, Runs 1, Walks 6
Career Top 10: RBI, Doubles, Walks (#1), Runs

Whiskey Allen, C, Last Season: 1922, HOF Standard: 72
3291 H, 301 2B, 24 HR, 1112 RBI, 1558 R, 661 K, 691 BB, 703 SB, .343 AVG, .842 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 1
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: 4
Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 2, OPS 3, Hits 2
Career Top 10: Hits, Runs, Steals

Tom Turley, C, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 71
3098 H, 395 2B, 131 HR, 1502 RBI, 1653 R, 931 K, 1454 BB, 420 SB, .293 AVG, .814 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 0
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: 0
Led League in: Walks 1
Career Top 10: Hits, RBI, Runs, Walks

Woody Woodson, 2B, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 69
3022 H, 444 2B, 93 HR, 1124 RBI, 1440 R, 415 K, 1326 BB, 87 SB, .364 AVG, .966 OPS
BOY Award: 5
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 11
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: 11
Led League in: OBP 10, SLG 7, OPS 9, Hits 6, HR 1, RBI 1, Runs 5, Walks 4
Career Top 10: AVG, Hits, Walks

Harry "The Haymaker" Cohan, C, Last Season: 1928, HOF Standard: 60
3208 H, 266 2B, 43 HR, 1161 RBI, 1168 R, 632 K, 547 BB, 59 SB, .353 AVG, .825 OPS
BOY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 9
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: 3
Led League in: SLG 1, OPS 1, Hits 2
Career Top 10: AVG, Hits

DO NOT VOTE FOR THESE
Here's the next best hitters on the HOF Standards Test:
59: "Flaky" Arsenault, John "Pops" Falise, Jed Burke
56: Campbell Ditty
54: Tee Carver
53: "Barefoot" Atkins
52: Bop Vacha, "Butterball" Klehammer
51: Patrick Seifried

Pitchers

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
ERA: 2.10
W: 359
K: 2612
CG: 601
SHO: 95

Andrew Murphy, Last Season: 1925, HOF Standard: 84
339-139, 70.9%, 2.10 ERA, 4444.7 IP, 995 BB, 1996 K, 435 CG, 95 SHO, 1.03 WHIP
POY Award: 9
ROY Award: 1912
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: 2
Led League in: ERA 9, WHIP 8, Wins 6, IP 2, K 4, CG 2, SHO 8
Career Top 10: ERA (#1), Wins, K, CG, SHO (#1)

Tim "Presto" Lopresto, Last Season: 1928, HOF Standard: 74
359-188, 65.6%, 2.62 ERA, 5033.3 IP, 1437 BB, 1382 K, 462 CG, 65 SHO, 1.01 WHIP
POY Award: 5
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 2
No-Hitters: 2
Led League in: ERA 6, WHIP 10, Wins 5, IP 3, CG 2, SHO 4
Career Top 10: Wins (#1), CG, SHO

Cecil Tan, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 67
292-168, 63.5%, 2.33 ERA, 4328 IP, 695 BB, 1864 K, 431 CG, 74 SHO, 1.09 WHIP
POY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 0
No-Hitters: 1 - Perfect Game
Led League in: ERA 4, WHIP 2, Wins 3, IP 3, K 2, CG 2, SHO 6
Career Top 10: ERA, Wins, CG, SHO

Raymond Gindler, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 66
274-177, 60.8%, 2.21 ERA, 4258.3 IP, 753 BB, 1977 K, 432 CG, 75 SHO, 0.91 WHIP
POY Award: 4
ROY Award: N/A
Pennants: 3
No-Hitters: 2
WS Victories: All 3 pennants were in years without WS
Led League in: ERA 7, WHIP 11, Wins 1, IP 5, K 1, CG 1, SHO 3
Career Top 10: ERA, Wins, CG, SHO

Allen Albertini, Last Season: 1920, HOF Standard: 60
265-147, 64.3%, 2.32 IP, 3982.3 IP, 1275 BB, 1724 K, 306 CG, 59 SHO, 1.05 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 0
WS Victories: 0
No-Hitters: 0
Led League in: ERA 2, WHIP 1, BB 1, SHO 1
Career Top 10: ERA, SHO

DO NOT VOTE FOR THESE
Here's the next best pitchers on the HOF Standards Test:
58: Will Haggan
57: Mark Krosser, Bowie Castellon
56: Jassen Nelson, Dave "Shepard" McBean
55: Howard Adams

Claybor · 05-20-2004, 03:38 PM

Genaro Nunez
Whitey Kohse
Whiskey Allen
Woody Woodson
Harry Cohan
Andrew Murphy
Tom Lopresto
Raymond Gindler

Hank Greenberg · 05-20-2004, 04:00 PM

"Tito" Nunez- Dominated the league, was a a great hitter and fielder and could run too.

Whiskey Allen- Had a great peak, was the top player of the league for a decent stretch of time.

Woody Woodson- Maybe the top player, 5 BoY, 11 batting titles, 11 gold gloves....he just tore the league apart.

Andrew Murphy- 9 PoY, #1 ERA, its obvious

.

Presto Lopresto- #1 in wins makes it obvious, 5 PoY awards as well, even if his ERA wasn't great..

(I know I didnt have to give reasons)

snubs... (why I left them off)

Whitey Khose- Never won a BoY or Batting Title, was a good all around player but in initial class he needs a "peak" year IMO, he just didn't have one.

Tom Turley- Only once lead the league in any category, no awards...like Khose, not enough of a peak to be "elite".

Harry Cohan- He was close, but is overshadowed by Allen, not enough of a sustained peak

Cecil Tan- He just doens't match up to the other two top pitchers, never won a championship (which hurts as well), but mostly he was overshadowed.

Matt from TN · 05-20-2004, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Greenberg
(I know I didnt have to give reasons)

No, but it sure makes it a lot more enjoyable!

Cohan was not only overshadowed by Whiskey as a catcher, but also by Woodson, who just kept winning batting titles.

I also agree that Tan was excellent, but overshadowed, mostly because the Reds could never seal the deal in a pennant race....

scprideandms · 05-20-2004, 04:32 PM

Tito
Whiskey
Woody
Andrew
Tim

IMO all should be unanimous!!!!!

haggis007 · 05-20-2004, 04:45 PM

Genaro Nunez
Whiskey Allen
Woody Woodson
Andrew Murphy
Tom Lopresto

m0ng00se · 05-20-2004, 05:06 PM

It wasn't easy, but I tried to narrow my list down to three pichers and three batters. I would probably vote for these guys in the following order:

1-"Tito" Nunez B
2-Andrew Murphy P
3-Whiskey Allen B
4-Woody Woodson B
5-"Presto" Lopresto P
6-Raymond Gindler P

Kohse was probably the one I felt the worst about leaving off this list. But there's always next year, eh?

gbmoore121 · 05-20-2004, 05:44 PM

Andrew Murphy
Genaro Nunez
Tim Lopresto
Woody Woodson
Raymond Gindler

Matt, one thing I noticed with using HOF standard is that you end up with a lot of SS, 2b, and Catchers in the HOF. Their position bonus usually bumps them up quite a bit. I usually take a look at other positions and see who has the high HOF standard of them, too.
By the way, I've been following along for about a month now, but have not posted. It is a great dynasty. I'm enjoying the read a lot.

Tyke · 05-20-2004, 06:01 PM

Genaro Nunez
Whiskey Allen
Woody Woodson
Andrew Murphy
Tom Lopresto
Raymond Gindler

tward13 · 05-20-2004, 06:16 PM

Nunez
W. Allen
Woodson
Cohan
Murphy
LoPresto

tward13 · 05-20-2004, 06:21 PM

Hank, not enough of sustained peak? Cohan?

He's got more RBI than Allen, he has just 83 less hits (and over 3000) and he hit for a HIGHER average! .353 for a CATCHER!

Let the controversy begin, haha.

Tiger Fan · 05-20-2004, 06:35 PM

Tito Nunez
Woody Woodson
Andrew Murphy
Tom Lopresto

There are others who certainly belong in the Hall eventually but the initial group needs to be very exclusive. Woodson, Murphy and Lopresto were clearly the class of the league and Tito Nunez just sneaks in with some help from the 8 gold gloves. I thought long and hard about including Whiskey Allen but in the end he falls just short of being in this elite class. I would certainly vote for him next time but he is not quite special enough for this very special class.

jdw · 05-20-2004, 07:12 PM

Matt - minor request, but it would help the voters:

Can your edit your post to link to the candidate's bio pages? Link you do when people retire or are newly added?

I think we can all find them off the leaderboard, but it just makes it a really quick click.

John

Hank Greenberg · 05-20-2004, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tward13
Hank, not enough of sustained peak? Cohan?

He's got more RBI than Allen, he has just 83 less hits (and over 3000) and he hit for a HIGHER average! .353 for a CATCHER!

Let the controversy begin, haha.

Allen is also a catcher. Allen has a higher OPS, more awards and appearances on leaderboard (which should be some criteria in the "best of the best"). Cohan definately has a case, but he's just short. An obvious HoF guy, but needed more leaderboard appearances to get in IMHO.

captaincarl · 05-20-2004, 07:30 PM

Genaro Nunez
Whitey Kohse
Whiskey Allen
Tom Turley
Andrew Murphy
Tim Lopresto

Eckstein 4 Prez · 05-20-2004, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Fan
Tito Nunez
Woody Woodson
Andrew Murphy
Tom Lopresto

There are others who certainly belong in the Hall eventually but the initial group needs to be very exclusive.

I agree completely. These four get my vote.

Matt from TN · 05-20-2004, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gbmoore121
Matt, one thing I noticed with using HOF standard is that you end up with a lot of SS, 2b, and Catchers in the HOF. Their position bonus usually bumps them up quite a bit. I usually take a look at other positions and see who has the high HOF standard of them, too.
By the way, I've been following along for about a month now, but have not posted. It is a great dynasty. I'm enjoying the read a lot.

That is true, but it is rewarding them for playing such a demanding position, and historically, players at that position were not as "offensive" as those at 1B, RF, LF, etc. There were certainly great players at every position, and I assure you they will be included on the next ballot.

Quote:

Originally posted by jdw
Matt - minor request, but it would help the voters:

Can your edit your post to link to the candidate's bio pages? Link you do when people retire or are newly added?

I think we can all find them off the leaderboard, but it just makes it a really quick click.

I'll try to do that... although no guarantees on when I'll be able to get to it... tonight or tomorrow hopefully

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Greenberg
Allen is also a catcher. Allen has a higher OPS, more awards and appearances on leaderboard (which should be some criteria in the "best of the best"). Cohan definately has a case, but he's just short. An obvious HoF guy, but needed more leaderboard appearances to get in IMHO.

Yes both are HOF'ers, and they both played in a golden age for the position, which actually works against them. If I had to pick only one for the initial class it would be Whiskey, partly for his batting titles & multiple AL pennants but also because he was THE player in the AL for some time - he could hit, run, steal, etc. Although Cohan was much better defensively and he was certainly underrated in his day However, both of them had a weakness for not taking walks. Guess they were both free swingers, but made a lot of contact.

rogmax11 · 05-20-2004, 08:43 PM

On the assumption that the initial class should be equal in number to the historic HOF, I basically echoed TigerFan in his thinking, but opted to include Allen.

The clear-cut no-brainer is Murphy, but all these are without serious question HOF worthy. Interesting to see that OOTP still generates catchers that are the leading hitters, with hit totals that are clearly unrealistic to expect from such a body-devouring position.

Hank Greenberg · 05-20-2004, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogmax11
On the assumption that the initial class should be equal in number to the historic HOF, I basically echoed TigerFan in his thinking, but opted to include Allen.

The clear-cut no-brainer is Murphy, but all these are without serious question HOF worthy. Interesting to see that OOTP still generates catchers that are the leading hitters, with hit totals that are clearly unrealistic to expect from such a body-devouring position.

I believe Wiskey Allen was a user created player actually....

Also, Id have to include Woodson as a clear-cut-no brainer as well

Matt from TN · 05-20-2004, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Greenberg
I believe Wiskey Allen was a user created player actually....

Also, Id have to include Woodson as a clear-cut-no brainer as well

Of the people on this ballot, Genaro Nunez, Whiskey Allen & Harry Cohan were all "created" ancestors... But I do agree that there should be some difference in the speed with which a player declines if he is a catcher... Worth noting is the fact that I've had injuries on high throughout this league's history, because I believe that is a better representation of real injury frequency... For that matter, Whiskey missed a fair amount of time to injury & still had an outstanding career...

I believe that catchers get less playing time in ootp... backups seem to have a higher "substitution" percentage in the depth chart, which I suppose reflects the physical demands of that position...

Also, I always thought Gindler was the premier pitcher until Murphy came along, and he was absolutely dominant... All of his (Murphy's) POY's were consecutive, except for one missed season... He won the ROY and then in the following season won his first of those POY's.

As for hitters, Whiskey was dominant in the AL, but even he was overshadowed by Woodson, who could do it all (except speed)... Whiskey didn't hit for power or draw walks... More recently, Nunez was a real force in the AL... He wasn't a homerun hitter, but he still led the AL in OPS regularly, even Slugging a few times, was a batting champ, stole bases and consistently scored a lot of runs

05-20-2004, 04:32 PM	#5
scprideandms All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: N KY, 25 miles from Cincy Posts: 1,314	Tito Whiskey Woody Andrew Tim IMO all should be unanimous!!!!! __________________ Change your playground + change your playfriends + change your playtoys + change your playtime = Change your life. If you keep on doing what you've always done you'll keep on gitting what you've always gotten.

05-20-2004, 05:44 PM	#8
gbmoore121 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 602	Andrew Murphy Genaro Nunez Tim Lopresto Woody Woodson Raymond Gindler Matt, one thing I noticed with using HOF standard is that you end up with a lot of SS, 2b, and Catchers in the HOF. Their position bonus usually bumps them up quite a bit. I usually take a look at other positions and see who has the high HOF standard of them, too. By the way, I've been following along for about a month now, but have not posted. It is a great dynasty. I'm enjoying the read a lot. __________________ WWPF- via DDS Pro Football

05-20-2004, 06:35 PM	#12
Tiger Fan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 9,831	Tito Nunez Woody Woodson Andrew Murphy Tom Lopresto There are others who certainly belong in the Hall eventually but the initial group needs to be very exclusive. Woodson, Murphy and Lopresto were clearly the class of the league and Tito Nunez just sneaks in with some help from the 8 gold gloves. I thought long and hard about including Whiskey Allen but in the end he falls just short of being in this elite class. I would certainly vote for him next time but he is not quite special enough for this very special class. __________________ Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles

05-20-2004, 07:30 PM	#15
captaincarl Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Barrington, RI Posts: 4,362	Genaro Nunez Whitey Kohse Whiskey Allen Tom Turley Andrew Murphy Tim Lopresto __________________ If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in english, thank a soldier.

05-20-2004, 03:12 PM	#1
Matt from TN Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a funk.... Posts: 3,413	VOTE: Time Warp Initial HOF Induction 1936 In 1936, the first class of Hall of Famers were inducted. They included the best of the best: Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner. Since the 1936 season in Time Warp is fast approaching, I decided to get this thread started now. Vote for whomever you think is appropriate for this initial class by replying with their names. Players with at least 75% of votes will be inducted. I reserve the right to add or remove a player if far too many or too few get 75%, although I don't expect that to happen. I selected only players with scores of 60 or above on the HOF Standards test, because I want this initial class to be extremely exclusive. All players on this list are likely to be in the HOF, but we want THE BEST for our initial class. Be as exclusive as you deem necessary. Fear not, after this initial class goes in, all other deserving players will be eligible for the next induction. The next two threads list batters and then pitchers. Vote for as many or as few as you want from among both posts. Please DO NOT vote for the players on the "Next on HOF Standards" list. Who deserves to be forever remembered as the very best in our initial HOF class? HOF Standard: 50 is considered an average HOF'er. 100 is max. Batters Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List): AVG: .369 Hits: 3657 HR: 276 RBI: 1693 2B: 665 BB: 1643 R: 1843 SB: 811 Genaro "Tito" Nunez, 2B, Last Season: 1931, HOF Standard: 76 3338 H, 384 2B, 63 HR, 1220 RBI, 1843 R, 448 K, 1109 BB, 789 SB, .346 AVG, .901 OPS BOY Award: 1 ROY Award: 1 Gold Gloves: 8 Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: 4 Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 6, OPS 6, Runs 3, BB 1, SB 10 Career Top 10: Hits, Triples, Runs (#1), Steals Whitey Kohse, SS, Last Season: 1932, HOF Standard: 74 2749 H, 660 2B, 131 HR, 1346 RBI, 1523 R, 853 K, 1643 BB, 164 SB, .324 AVG, .939 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 4 Pennants: 3 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: OBP 5, SLG 3, OPS 5, Doubles 4, Runs 1, Walks 6 Career Top 10: RBI, Doubles, Walks (#1), Runs Whiskey Allen, C, Last Season: 1922, HOF Standard: 72 3291 H, 301 2B, 24 HR, 1112 RBI, 1558 R, 661 K, 691 BB, 703 SB, .343 AVG, .842 OPS BOY Award: 2 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 1 Pennants: 4 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: 4 Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 2, OPS 3, Hits 2 Career Top 10: Hits, Runs, Steals Tom Turley, C, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 71 3098 H, 395 2B, 131 HR, 1502 RBI, 1653 R, 931 K, 1454 BB, 420 SB, .293 AVG, .814 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 0 Pennants: 3 WS Victories: 2 Batting Titles: 0 Led League in: Walks 1 Career Top 10: Hits, RBI, Runs, Walks Woody Woodson, 2B, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 69 3022 H, 444 2B, 93 HR, 1124 RBI, 1440 R, 415 K, 1326 BB, 87 SB, .364 AVG, .966 OPS BOY Award: 5 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 11 Pennants: 4 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: 11 Led League in: OBP 10, SLG 7, OPS 9, Hits 6, HR 1, RBI 1, Runs 5, Walks 4 Career Top 10: AVG, Hits, Walks Harry "The Haymaker" Cohan, C, Last Season: 1928, HOF Standard: 60 3208 H, 266 2B, 43 HR, 1161 RBI, 1168 R, 632 K, 547 BB, 59 SB, .353 AVG, .825 OPS BOY Award: 1 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 9 Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 2 Batting Titles: 3 Led League in: SLG 1, OPS 1, Hits 2 Career Top 10: AVG, Hits DO NOT VOTE FOR THESE Here's the next best hitters on the HOF Standards Test: 59: "Flaky" Arsenault, John "Pops" Falise, Jed Burke 56: Campbell Ditty 54: Tee Carver 53: "Barefoot" Atkins 52: Bop Vacha, "Butterball" Klehammer 51: Patrick Seifried Pitchers Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List): ERA: 2.10 W: 359 K: 2612 CG: 601 SHO: 95 Andrew Murphy, Last Season: 1925, HOF Standard: 84 339-139, 70.9%, 2.10 ERA, 4444.7 IP, 995 BB, 1996 K, 435 CG, 95 SHO, 1.03 WHIP POY Award: 9 ROY Award: 1912 Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: 2 Led League in: ERA 9, WHIP 8, Wins 6, IP 2, K 4, CG 2, SHO 8 Career Top 10: ERA (#1), Wins, K, CG, SHO (#1) Tim "Presto" Lopresto, Last Season: 1928, HOF Standard: 74 359-188, 65.6%, 2.62 ERA, 5033.3 IP, 1437 BB, 1382 K, 462 CG, 65 SHO, 1.01 WHIP POY Award: 5 ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 3 WS Victories: 2 No-Hitters: 2 Led League in: ERA 6, WHIP 10, Wins 5, IP 3, CG 2, SHO 4 Career Top 10: Wins (#1), CG, SHO Cecil Tan, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 67 292-168, 63.5%, 2.33 ERA, 4328 IP, 695 BB, 1864 K, 431 CG, 74 SHO, 1.09 WHIP POY Award: 2 ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 0 No-Hitters: 1 - Perfect Game Led League in: ERA 4, WHIP 2, Wins 3, IP 3, K 2, CG 2, SHO 6 Career Top 10: ERA, Wins, CG, SHO Raymond Gindler, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 66 274-177, 60.8%, 2.21 ERA, 4258.3 IP, 753 BB, 1977 K, 432 CG, 75 SHO, 0.91 WHIP POY Award: 4 ROY Award: N/A Pennants: 3 No-Hitters: 2 WS Victories: All 3 pennants were in years without WS Led League in: ERA 7, WHIP 11, Wins 1, IP 5, K 1, CG 1, SHO 3 Career Top 10: ERA, Wins, CG, SHO Allen Albertini, Last Season: 1920, HOF Standard: 60 265-147, 64.3%, 2.32 IP, 3982.3 IP, 1275 BB, 1724 K, 306 CG, 59 SHO, 1.05 WHIP POY Award: 1 ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 0 WS Victories: 0 No-Hitters: 0 Led League in: ERA 2, WHIP 1, BB 1, SHO 1 Career Top 10: ERA, SHO DO NOT VOTE FOR THESE Here's the next best pitchers on the HOF Standards Test: 58: Will Haggan 57: Mark Krosser, Bowie Castellon 56: Jassen Nelson, Dave "Shepard" McBean 55: Howard Adams __________________ Set in Stone... Players Remain with Original Franchise Last edited by Matt from TN; 05-21-2004 at 08:54 AM.

05-20-2004, 03:38 PM	#2
Claybor All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,360 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Genaro Nunez Whitey Kohse Whiskey Allen Woody Woodson Harry Cohan Andrew Murphy Tom Lopresto Raymond Gindler

05-20-2004, 04:00 PM	#3
Hank Greenberg Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 460	"Tito" Nunez- Dominated the league, was a a great hitter and fielder and could run too. Whiskey Allen- Had a great peak, was the top player of the league for a decent stretch of time. Woody Woodson- Maybe the top player, 5 BoY, 11 batting titles, 11 gold gloves....he just tore the league apart. Andrew Murphy- 9 PoY, #1 ERA, its obvious . Presto Lopresto- #1 in wins makes it obvious, 5 PoY awards as well, even if his ERA wasn't great.. (I know I didnt have to give reasons) snubs... (why I left them off) Whitey Khose- Never won a BoY or Batting Title, was a good all around player but in initial class he needs a "peak" year IMO, he just didn't have one. Tom Turley- Only once lead the league in any category, no awards...like Khose, not enough of a peak to be "elite". Harry Cohan- He was close, but is overshadowed by Allen, not enough of a sustained peak Cecil Tan- He just doens't match up to the other two top pitchers, never won a championship (which hurts as well), but mostly he was overshadowed.

05-20-2004, 04:45 PM	#6
haggis007 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 115	Genaro Nunez Whiskey Allen Woody Woodson Andrew Murphy Tom Lopresto

05-20-2004, 05:06 PM	#7
m0ng00se Major Leagues Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 383	It wasn't easy, but I tried to narrow my list down to three pichers and three batters. I would probably vote for these guys in the following order: 1-"Tito" Nunez B 2-Andrew Murphy P 3-Whiskey Allen B 4-Woody Woodson B 5-"Presto" Lopresto P 6-Raymond Gindler P Kohse was probably the one I felt the worst about leaving off this list. But there's always next year, eh?

05-20-2004, 06:01 PM	#9
Tyke All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire, U.K. Posts: 1,138	Genaro Nunez Whiskey Allen Woody Woodson Andrew Murphy Tom Lopresto Raymond Gindler

05-20-2004, 06:16 PM	#10
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,964	Nunez W. Allen Woodson Cohan Murphy LoPresto

05-20-2004, 06:21 PM	#11
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,964	Hank, not enough of sustained peak? Cohan? He's got more RBI than Allen, he has just 83 less hits (and over 3000) and he hit for a HIGHER average! .353 for a CATCHER! Let the controversy begin, haha.

05-20-2004, 07:12 PM	#13
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Matt - minor request, but it would help the voters: Can your edit your post to link to the candidate's bio pages? Link you do when people retire or are newly added? I think we can all find them off the leaderboard, but it just makes it a really quick click. John

05-20-2004, 08:43 PM	#18
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	On the assumption that the initial class should be equal in number to the historic HOF, I basically echoed TigerFan in his thinking, but opted to include Allen. The clear-cut no-brainer is Murphy, but all these are without serious question HOF worthy. Interesting to see that OOTP still generates catchers that are the leading hitters, with hit totals that are clearly unrealistic to expect from such a body-devouring position.