VOTE: Time Warp HOF Ballot 1941

Matt from TN · 07-14-2004, 05:13 PM

1936 Initial Ballot Results, 1937 Results, 1938 Results, 1939 Results, 1940 Results

No players were elected to the RL HOF in 1941 - the 2nd straight year.

All players who received at least 5% of votes on the last ballot were retained for this ballot. I also added players who became eligible for the ballot in 1941 (retired after 1935 season).

I decided to stop adding guys from the HOF Standards list (now with scores below 35). They will be handled by the VC. From now on, the only new players added are those who become eligible after 5 yrs of retirement.

All players not receiving 5% of votes on this ballot will be removed.

Players who have been retired for 20 years fall off this ballot if not elected, but since the Veteran's Committee does not begin until 1946, I will do this: If a player is over the 20 year mark, he will be removed from the ballot once 1946 gets here and the VC is in effect. After that point, the regular 20-year rule will be used.

Vote for as many or as few as you want. Max votes are 10.

HOF Standard: 50 is considered an average HOF'er. 100 is max.

Batters

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
AVG: .364
Hits: 4000
HR: 392
RBI: 1713
2B: 665
BB: 1643
R: 2004
SB: 921

"Flaky" Arsenault, SS, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 59
3511 H, 351 2B, 28 HR, 1330 RBI, 1661 R, 446 K, 1012 BB, 359 SB, .336 AVG, .838 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: 1
Gold Gloves: 3
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Hits 1, Runs 1
Career Top 10: Hits, Runs

Jed Burke, 2B, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 59
2950 H, 265 2B, 18 HR, 1055 RBI, 1228 R, 600 K, 921 BB, 138 SB, .345 AVG, .851 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 1
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: 3
Led League in: OBP 4, SLG1, OPS 2, Hits 3, BB 1
Career Top 10: NONE

Patrick Seifried, 1B, Last Season: 1924, HOF Standard: 51
2720 H, 313 2B, 59 HR, 1195 RBI, 1348 R, 851 K, 1137 BB, 235 SB, .327 AVG, .867 OPS
BOY Award: 3
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 5
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: 1
Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 1, OPS 2, RBI 2, Runs 2, BB 3
Career Top 10: NONE

Paris "Frenchie" Fournier, 3B, Last Season: 1924, HOF Standard: 49
2730 H, 465 2B, 24 HR, 980 RBI, 1511 R, 354 K, 541 BB, 802 SB, .296 AVG, .772 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Hits 2, 2B 1, 3B 2, Runs 4, SB 7
Career Top 10: 3B, Runs, SB

"Dark Horse" Allen, CF, Last Season: 1913, HOF Standard: 42
1795 H, 213 2B, 67 HR, 709 RBI, 907 R, 528 K, 871 BB, 13 SB, .325 AVG, .883 OPS
BOY Award: 3
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: 2
Led League in: OBP 2, SLG 4, OPS 4, Hits 2, 3B 1, HR 1, Runs 3, BB 5
Career Top 10: NONE

Charlie Matthews, RF, Last Season: 1929, HOF Standard: 40
2027 H, 449 2B, 93 HR, 1067 RBI, 1159 R, 411 K, 432 BB, 457 SB, .308 AVG, .846 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 5
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 2, Hits 1, RBI 1, Runs 2, SB 3
Career Top 10: NONE

"Ray of Light" Brown, CF, Last Season: 1926, HOF Standard: 49
2526 H, 339 2B, 130 HR, 1155 RBI, 1314 R, 969 K, 828 BB, 167 SB, .300 AVG, .836 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 11
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 2, Hits 2, 3B 1, HR 2, Runs 1
Career Top 10: 3B

Ron Bennarivo, SS, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 61
2871 H, 458 2B, 135 HR, 1343 RBI, 1668 R, 692 K, 1476 BB, 637 SB, .279 AVG, .784 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: 1
Gold Gloves: 1
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Runs 1, SB 2
Career Top 10: Runs, BB, SB

NEW

Edward "Juicy" Shiflet, LF, Last Season: 1935, HOF Standard: 50
2108 H, 351 2B, 178 HR, 1289 RBI, 1136 R, 535 K, 885 BB, 212 SB, .320 AVG, .910 OPS
BOY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: NONE
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: 1
Led League in: SLG 2, OPS 1, RBI 1
Career Top 10: NONE

Rob Weems, 2B, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 38
2090 H, 267 2B, 93 HR, 831 RBI, 842 R, 375 K, 484 BB, 33 SB, .323 AVG, .785 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 10: NONE

Gary Emmerich, RF, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 36
2031 H, 292 2B, 50 HR, 786 RBI, 1089 R, 276 K, 607 BB, 515 SB, .306 AVG, .794 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 3
Pennants: NONE
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SB 6
Career Top 10: NONE

Steve Varghese, 3B, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 36
1978 H, 252 2B, 61 HR, 752 RBI, 871 R, 435 K, 311 BB, 30 SB, .320 AVG, .778 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 1
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Hits 2
Career Top 10: NONE

Horst "Harry" Nagel, C, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 30
1818 H, 250 2B, 23 HR, 641 RBI, 812 R, 383 K, 641 BB, 33 SB, .284 AVG, .692 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 10: NONE

Matt from TN · 07-14-2004, 05:13 PM

Pitchers

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
ERA: 2.10
W: 381
K: 2612
CG: 601
SHO: 95

Will Haggan, Last Season: 1922, HOF Standard: 58
337-299, 53.0%, 3.28 ERA, 5837.1 IP, 1597 BB, 2612 K, 601 CG, 45 SHO, 1.15 WHIP
POY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 2
No-Hitters: 2
Led League in: Wins 1, Losses 1, IP 2
Career Top 10: Wins, K's (#1), CG (#1)

Mark Krosser, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57
266-181, 59.5%, 2.50 ERA, 4134.2 IP, 653 BB, 2131 K, 419 CG, 39 SHO, 1.10 WHIP
POY Award: 2
ROY Award: 1
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 3, WHIP 1, Wins 2, IP 1, K's 2, CG 2, SHO 1
Career Top 10: ERA, K's

Bowie Castellon, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57
262-146, 64.2%, 2.52 ERA, 3801 IP, 777 BB, 1298 K, 397 CG, 50 SHO, 1.08 WHIP
POY Award: 3
ROY Award: 1
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 2, WHIP 1, Wins 3, CG 2
Career Top 10: ERA, SHO

Dave "The Shepard" McBean, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 56
254-151, 62.7%, 2.52 ERA, 3747 IP, 611 BB, 1529 K, 386 CG, 55 SHO, 1.06 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: Wins 3, IP 1, K's 1, CG 3, SHO 1
Career Top 10: ERA, SHO

"Nasty Ned" Fargo, Last Season: 1933, HOF Standard: 46
322-261, 55.2%, 3.99 ERA, 5502 IP, 1073 BB, 1482 K, 415 CG, 31 SHO, 1.24 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: Wins 1, Losses 1, IP 5, CG 2
Career Top 10: Wins

"Evil" Gary Archer, Last Season: 1914, HOF Standard: 45
237-188, 55.8%, 2.86 ERA, 3922.1 IP, 984 BB, 1631 K, 405 CG, 47 SHO, 1.09 WHIP
POY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: 3
Led League in: WHIP 2, CG 1, SHO 1
Career Top 10: NONE

Johnny Swinson, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 44
256-167, 60.5%, 3.23 ERA, 3900.2 IP, 729 BB, 1159 K, 348 CG, 33 SHO, 1.17 WHIP
POY Award: 3
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 3, WHIP 1, Wins 3, IP 2, CG 1, SHO 1
Career Top 10: NONE

NEW

Floyd Bettles, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 25
239-197, 54.8%, 4.14 ERA, 3935.1 IP, 1579 BB, 1479 K, 360 CG, 29 SHO, 1.47 WHIP
POY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: K's 1, CG 1, SHO 1
Career Top 10: NONE

lgkeeper · 07-14-2004, 05:18 PM

Arsenault
Burke
Brown
Haggan

Matt from TN · 07-14-2004, 05:19 PM

you can remove kohse, turley & ditty from your post... I deleted them from the ballot... were elected last yr and I forgot to remove them

ifspuds · 07-14-2004, 05:29 PM

Burke
Arsenault
Seifried (meant to vote for him, forgot to put the name down)
Haggan
Krosser

scprideandms · 07-14-2004, 06:01 PM

Flaky
Brown

tward13 · 07-14-2004, 06:19 PM

Arsenault
Burke
Allen
Haggan
Castellon
Krosser
Fargo

Kaline · 07-14-2004, 06:45 PM

Flaky
Burke
Seifried
Darkhorse
Matthews
Brown
Krosser
Castellon
Swinson
McBean

Yea, its a lot again....

spiffamous · 07-14-2004, 07:00 PM

Arsenault
Haggan
Fargo

jdw · 07-14-2004, 07:14 PM

In alpha order:

Hitters:
Dark Horse Allen
Jean-Francois Arsenault
Jed Burke
Patrick Seifried

Pitchers:
Bowie Castellon
Mark Krosser

This actually was the year that I was going to vote for Turley, but my fellow voters went and put him in.

A note on one of the guys I'm *not* voting for:

Juicy Shiflet has without doubt one of the strangest careers in TWB history. His peak from 1927-31 is high... Really High. The problem is that the leader boards don't really reflect it because he had three seasons gutted by injuries (1929-31). Take a close look at those years, then look over at the number of games played, then ponder them as 145+ game seasons.

He came back fully healthy in 1932 at the age of 33 and had the type of season that he needed a *few more* of to really firm up a strong HOF candidacy. In terms of quality, it looks way down from his peak. But the 29 dingers and the 118 RBI... some seasons like that pad that bottom line.

Oddly enough, he just flat out lost it the follow year, and then continued to suck his way out of the league. His teammate Tyrell Chestnut was born in the same year as Juicy. Chestnut's monster seasons also came from 1932 and earlier, though he did win the 1933 BOY. If Juicy aged like Tyrell did from 1933-39, he would be a flat out lock for the HOF.

John

Carlton · 07-14-2004, 07:49 PM

McBean - Guys! He was great! Injuries killed him but he won the WS by HIMSELF!
Fournier-The real reason Cleveland became a powerhouse, not Whiskey
Allen- I am about to write his obit when the website is up and running...half of me wants him to get in before he dies.
Brown - A great Sherry Magee type player
Haggan - a workhorse on a very bad team
Archer - Still a feared P, despite his stats, he always beat the top teams.

Who I am not voting for

Arsenault
Burke

I still say they threw the 1919 WS...It be nice if later they are found innocent, but Stat wise...they were on the take...and NOT Kelly Brackey (who is about to die of a broken heart after Landis dies...never to be reinstated)

Mark Krosser

As I delve into the Phillies history. Mark was always coming up lame when it counted most

metsgeek · 07-14-2004, 09:20 PM

Dark Horse Allen
Ray of Light Brown
Burke
Seifried
Haggan
McBean
Castellon
Archer

Even I can't vote for my great uncle Harry, though

Jack4Jack · 07-14-2004, 09:40 PM

Bowie Castellon
Burke

fhomess · 07-15-2004, 12:57 PM

Dark Horse Allen
Flaky Arsenault
"Ray of Light" Brown
"Frenchie" Fournier
Mark Krosser
Dave McBean
Bowie Castellon

Comments:
-I've loosened my standards slightly this season, we'll see how I feel later.
-Seifried was a great player that's been knocked on a bit much for leaving to go to the Federal League. To be honest, I think he deserves to go in, but I won't vote for him as I'll be the Cleveland GM and he screwed us over by leaving. I don't care if we won without him, we'd have won more with him.
-Fournier gets in to represent the SB types that were far more valuable in early century play.
-I have a hard time distinguishing between McBean and Castellon, so they both get a vote. Castellon wasn't quite as good with BB's and K's.
-"Ray of Light" Brown really needs to be listed as a CF. He won 10 of his 11 GG's there, and the other in LF. Why is he listed at RF? I didn't vote for him last time because I thought the GG's were in RF (I know, I should do better research).
-Allen needs to be given some slack for being one of the older initial players in the league. He was certainly highly regarded.

Anyone want to run Keltner tests in the future? I'd love to, but it'd be hard for me to have the time...

Ankhiel · 07-15-2004, 01:08 PM

this has to be flaky's year....
not many worth it this year imho, so here comes

arsenault
fournier
haggan

Matt from TN · 07-15-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhomess

-"Ray of Light" Brown really needs to be listed as a CF. He won 10 of his 11 GG's there, and the other in LF. Why is he listed at RF? I didn't vote for him last time because I thought the GG's were in RF (I know, I should do better research).

Yes, he is a CF... I'll edit that... what happened was, he switched to RF in his last 2-3 seasons & when he retired he did so at RF and not CF. So, unknowingly, I just wrote him down as RF instead of making the change. I later noticed the change on my spreadsheet, but forgot to note it here.

rogmax11 · 07-15-2004, 03:14 PM

For sure: Arsenault, Burke, Brown, Krosser, Castellon, Swinson

Probable: Haggan, Fargo, McBean

Feeling iffy: Bonnivaro

Dagrims · 07-15-2004, 03:28 PM

Arsenault
Allen - previous years' voters have convinced me
Brown - see above

Krosser
Castellon
McBean

Matt from TN · 07-15-2004, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogmax11

For sure: Arsenault, Burke, Brown, Krosser, Castellon, Swinson

Probable: Haggan, Fargo, McBean

Feeling iffy: Bonnivaro

Just to be sure, does that mean you're voting for all of these?

rogmax11 · 07-15-2004, 03:56 PM

I guess that was a trifle indistinct, wasnt it?

Yes, a vote for all, with an attempt to sort out my level of commitment in case you needed a tie-breaker. Or something.

07-14-2004, 05:13 PM	#2
Matt from TN Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a funk.... Posts: 3,413	Pitchers Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List): ERA: 2.10 W: 381 K: 2612 CG: 601 SHO: 95 Will Haggan, Last Season: 1922, HOF Standard: 58 337-299, 53.0%, 3.28 ERA, 5837.1 IP, 1597 BB, 2612 K, 601 CG, 45 SHO, 1.15 WHIP POY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 2 No-Hitters: 2 Led League in: Wins 1, Losses 1, IP 2 Career Top 10: Wins, K's (#1), CG (#1) Mark Krosser, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57 266-181, 59.5%, 2.50 ERA, 4134.2 IP, 653 BB, 2131 K, 419 CG, 39 SHO, 1.10 WHIP POY Award: 2 ROY Award: 1 Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: ERA 3, WHIP 1, Wins 2, IP 1, K's 2, CG 2, SHO 1 Career Top 10: ERA, K's Bowie Castellon, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57 262-146, 64.2%, 2.52 ERA, 3801 IP, 777 BB, 1298 K, 397 CG, 50 SHO, 1.08 WHIP POY Award: 3 ROY Award: 1 Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: ERA 2, WHIP 1, Wins 3, CG 2 Career Top 10: ERA, SHO Dave "The Shepard" McBean, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 56 254-151, 62.7%, 2.52 ERA, 3747 IP, 611 BB, 1529 K, 386 CG, 55 SHO, 1.06 WHIP POY Award: 1 ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: Wins 3, IP 1, K's 1, CG 3, SHO 1 Career Top 10: ERA, SHO "Nasty Ned" Fargo, Last Season: 1933, HOF Standard: 46 322-261, 55.2%, 3.99 ERA, 5502 IP, 1073 BB, 1482 K, 415 CG, 31 SHO, 1.24 WHIP POY Award: 1 ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: Wins 1, Losses 1, IP 5, CG 2 Career Top 10: Wins "Evil" Gary Archer, Last Season: 1914, HOF Standard: 45 237-188, 55.8%, 2.86 ERA, 3922.1 IP, 984 BB, 1631 K, 405 CG, 47 SHO, 1.09 WHIP POY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: 3 Led League in: WHIP 2, CG 1, SHO 1 Career Top 10: NONE Johnny Swinson, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 44 256-167, 60.5%, 3.23 ERA, 3900.2 IP, 729 BB, 1159 K, 348 CG, 33 SHO, 1.17 WHIP POY Award: 3 ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: ERA 3, WHIP 1, Wins 3, IP 2, CG 1, SHO 1 Career Top 10: NONE NEW Floyd Bettles, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 25 239-197, 54.8%, 4.14 ERA, 3935.1 IP, 1579 BB, 1479 K, 360 CG, 29 SHO, 1.47 WHIP POY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: K's 1, CG 1, SHO 1 Career Top 10: NONE __________________ Set in Stone... Players Remain with Original Franchise Last edited by Matt from TN; 07-14-2004 at 05:17 PM.

07-14-2004, 05:18 PM	#3
lgkeeper All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: My front porch lookin' in Posts: 1,137	Arsenault Burke Brown Haggan Last edited by lgkeeper; 07-14-2004 at 06:21 PM.

07-14-2004, 05:19 PM	#4
Matt from TN Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a funk.... Posts: 3,413	you can remove kohse, turley & ditty from your post... I deleted them from the ballot... were elected last yr and I forgot to remove them __________________ Set in Stone... Players Remain with Original Franchise

07-14-2004, 05:29 PM	#5
ifspuds Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 2,117	Burke Arsenault Seifried (meant to vote for him, forgot to put the name down) Haggan Krosser __________________ Jeff Watson Former dynasty writer and online league player, now mostly retired Last edited by ifspuds; 07-14-2004 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Forgot one...

07-14-2004, 06:01 PM	#6
scprideandms All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: N KY, 25 miles from Cincy Posts: 1,314	Flaky Brown __________________ Change your playground + change your playfriends + change your playtoys + change your playtime = Change your life. If you keep on doing what you've always done you'll keep on gitting what you've always gotten.

07-14-2004, 05:13 PM	#1
Matt from TN Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a funk.... Posts: 3,413	VOTE: Time Warp HOF Ballot 1941 1936 Initial Ballot Results, 1937 Results, 1938 Results, 1939 Results, 1940 Results No players were elected to the RL HOF in 1941 - the 2nd straight year. All players who received at least 5% of votes on the last ballot were retained for this ballot. I also added players who became eligible for the ballot in 1941 (retired after 1935 season). I decided to stop adding guys from the HOF Standards list (now with scores below 35). They will be handled by the VC. From now on, the only new players added are those who become eligible after 5 yrs of retirement. All players not receiving 5% of votes on this ballot will be removed. Players who have been retired for 20 years fall off this ballot if not elected, but since the Veteran's Committee does not begin until 1946, I will do this: If a player is over the 20 year mark, he will be removed from the ballot once 1946 gets here and the VC is in effect. After that point, the regular 20-year rule will be used. Vote for as many or as few as you want. Max votes are 10. HOF Standard: 50 is considered an average HOF'er. 100 is max. Batters Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List): AVG: .364 Hits: 4000 HR: 392 RBI: 1713 2B: 665 BB: 1643 R: 2004 SB: 921 "Flaky" Arsenault, SS, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 59 3511 H, 351 2B, 28 HR, 1330 RBI, 1661 R, 446 K, 1012 BB, 359 SB, .336 AVG, .838 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: 1 Gold Gloves: 3 Pennants: 3 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: Hits 1, Runs 1 Career Top 10: Hits, Runs Jed Burke, 2B, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 59 2950 H, 265 2B, 18 HR, 1055 RBI, 1228 R, 600 K, 921 BB, 138 SB, .345 AVG, .851 OPS BOY Award: 2 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 1 Pennants: 4 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: 3 Led League in: OBP 4, SLG1, OPS 2, Hits 3, BB 1 Career Top 10: NONE Patrick Seifried, 1B, Last Season: 1924, HOF Standard: 51 2720 H, 313 2B, 59 HR, 1195 RBI, 1348 R, 851 K, 1137 BB, 235 SB, .327 AVG, .867 OPS BOY Award: 3 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 5 Pennants: 2 WS Victories: NONE Batting Titles: 1 Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 1, OPS 2, RBI 2, Runs 2, BB 3 Career Top 10: NONE Paris "Frenchie" Fournier, 3B, Last Season: 1924, HOF Standard: 49 2730 H, 465 2B, 24 HR, 980 RBI, 1511 R, 354 K, 541 BB, 802 SB, .296 AVG, .772 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: NONE Pennants: 4 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: Hits 2, 2B 1, 3B 2, Runs 4, SB 7 Career Top 10: 3B, Runs, SB "Dark Horse" Allen, CF, Last Season: 1913, HOF Standard: 42 1795 H, 213 2B, 67 HR, 709 RBI, 907 R, 528 K, 871 BB, 13 SB, .325 AVG, .883 OPS BOY Award: 3 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: NONE Pennants: 3 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: 2 Led League in: OBP 2, SLG 4, OPS 4, Hits 2, 3B 1, HR 1, Runs 3, BB 5 Career Top 10: NONE Charlie Matthews, RF, Last Season: 1929, HOF Standard: 40 2027 H, 449 2B, 93 HR, 1067 RBI, 1159 R, 411 K, 432 BB, 457 SB, .308 AVG, .846 OPS BOY Award: 2 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 5 Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 2 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: SLG 2, Hits 1, RBI 1, Runs 2, SB 3 Career Top 10: NONE "Ray of Light" Brown, CF, Last Season: 1926, HOF Standard: 49 2526 H, 339 2B, 130 HR, 1155 RBI, 1314 R, 969 K, 828 BB, 167 SB, .300 AVG, .836 OPS BOY Award: 2 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 11 Pennants: 4 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: SLG 2, Hits 2, 3B 1, HR 2, Runs 1 Career Top 10: 3B Ron Bennarivo, SS, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 61 2871 H, 458 2B, 135 HR, 1343 RBI, 1668 R, 692 K, 1476 BB, 637 SB, .279 AVG, .784 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: 1 Gold Gloves: 1 Pennants: 1 WS Victories: NONE Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: Runs 1, SB 2 Career Top 10: Runs, BB, SB NEW Edward "Juicy" Shiflet, LF, Last Season: 1935, HOF Standard: 50 2108 H, 351 2B, 178 HR, 1289 RBI, 1136 R, 535 K, 885 BB, 212 SB, .320 AVG, .910 OPS BOY Award: 1 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: NONE Pennants: NONE WS Victories: NONE Batting Titles: 1 Led League in: SLG 2, OPS 1, RBI 1 Career Top 10: NONE Rob Weems, 2B, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 38 2090 H, 267 2B, 93 HR, 831 RBI, 842 R, 375 K, 484 BB, 33 SB, .323 AVG, .785 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: NONE Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: NONE Career Top 10: NONE Gary Emmerich, RF, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 36 2031 H, 292 2B, 50 HR, 786 RBI, 1089 R, 276 K, 607 BB, 515 SB, .306 AVG, .794 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 3 Pennants: NONE WS Victories: NONE Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: SB 6 Career Top 10: NONE Steve Varghese, 3B, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 36 1978 H, 252 2B, 61 HR, 752 RBI, 871 R, 435 K, 311 BB, 30 SB, .320 AVG, .778 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 1 Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: Hits 2 Career Top 10: NONE Horst "Harry" Nagel, C, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 30 1818 H, 250 2B, 23 HR, 641 RBI, 812 R, 383 K, 641 BB, 33 SB, .284 AVG, .692 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: NONE Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: NONE Career Top 10: NONE Last edited by Matt from TN; 07-15-2004 at 01:15 PM.

07-14-2004, 06:19 PM	#7
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,965	Arsenault Burke Allen Haggan Castellon Krosser Fargo

07-14-2004, 06:45 PM	#8
Kaline Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 321	Flaky Burke Seifried Darkhorse Matthews Brown Krosser Castellon Swinson McBean Yea, its a lot again....

07-14-2004, 07:00 PM	#9
spiffamous Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 135	Arsenault Haggan Fargo

07-14-2004, 07:14 PM	#10
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	In alpha order: Hitters: Dark Horse Allen Jean-Francois Arsenault Jed Burke Patrick Seifried Pitchers: Bowie Castellon Mark Krosser This actually was the year that I was going to vote for Turley, but my fellow voters went and put him in. A note on one of the guys I'm not voting for: Juicy Shiflet has without doubt one of the strangest careers in TWB history. His peak from 1927-31 is high... Really High. The problem is that the leader boards don't really reflect it because he had three seasons gutted by injuries (1929-31). Take a close look at those years, then look over at the number of games played, then ponder them as 145+ game seasons. He came back fully healthy in 1932 at the age of 33 and had the type of season that he needed a few more of to really firm up a strong HOF candidacy. In terms of quality, it looks way down from his peak. But the 29 dingers and the 118 RBI... some seasons like that pad that bottom line. Oddly enough, he just flat out lost it the follow year, and then continued to suck his way out of the league. His teammate Tyrell Chestnut was born in the same year as Juicy. Chestnut's monster seasons also came from 1932 and earlier, though he did win the 1933 BOY. If Juicy aged like Tyrell did from 1933-39, he would be a flat out lock for the HOF. John

07-14-2004, 07:49 PM	#11
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	McBean - Guys! He was great! Injuries killed him but he won the WS by HIMSELF! Fournier-The real reason Cleveland became a powerhouse, not Whiskey Allen- I am about to write his obit when the website is up and running...half of me wants him to get in before he dies. Brown - A great Sherry Magee type player Haggan - a workhorse on a very bad team Archer - Still a feared P, despite his stats, he always beat the top teams. Who I am not voting for Arsenault Burke I still say they threw the 1919 WS...It be nice if later they are found innocent, but Stat wise...they were on the take...and NOT Kelly Brackey (who is about to die of a broken heart after Landis dies...never to be reinstated) Mark Krosser As I delve into the Phillies history. Mark was always coming up lame when it counted most __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

07-14-2004, 09:20 PM	#12
metsgeek Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 5,450	Dark Horse Allen Ray of Light Brown Burke Seifried Haggan McBean Castellon Archer Even I can't vote for my great uncle Harry, though __________________ Commissioner - PBRL - Just finished 2009 109 seasons and still running strong!!!

07-14-2004, 09:40 PM	#13
Jack4Jack Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 75	Bowie Castellon Burke

07-15-2004, 12:57 PM	#14
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,692	Dark Horse Allen Flaky Arsenault "Ray of Light" Brown "Frenchie" Fournier Mark Krosser Dave McBean Bowie Castellon Comments: -I've loosened my standards slightly this season, we'll see how I feel later. -Seifried was a great player that's been knocked on a bit much for leaving to go to the Federal League. To be honest, I think he deserves to go in, but I won't vote for him as I'll be the Cleveland GM and he screwed us over by leaving. I don't care if we won without him, we'd have won more with him. -Fournier gets in to represent the SB types that were far more valuable in early century play. -I have a hard time distinguishing between McBean and Castellon, so they both get a vote. Castellon wasn't quite as good with BB's and K's. -"Ray of Light" Brown really needs to be listed as a CF. He won 10 of his 11 GG's there, and the other in LF. Why is he listed at RF? I didn't vote for him last time because I thought the GG's were in RF (I know, I should do better research). -Allen needs to be given some slack for being one of the older initial players in the league. He was certainly highly regarded. Anyone want to run Keltner tests in the future? I'd love to, but it'd be hard for me to have the time... __________________ StatsLab- PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Baseball Cards - Full list of known templates and documentation on card development.

07-15-2004, 01:08 PM	#15
Ankhiel Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 470	this has to be flaky's year.... not many worth it this year imho, so here comes arsenault fournier haggan __________________ GM - TWB Expos Join the fun

07-15-2004, 03:14 PM	#17
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	For sure: Arsenault, Burke, Brown, Krosser, Castellon, Swinson Probable: Haggan, Fargo, McBean Feeling iffy: Bonnivaro

07-15-2004, 03:28 PM	#18
Dagrims Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,827	Arsenault Allen - previous years' voters have convinced me Brown - see above Krosser Castellon McBean __________________ "Read books, get brain."

07-15-2004, 03:56 PM	#20
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	I guess that was a trifle indistinct, wasnt it? Yes, a vote for all, with an attempt to sort out my level of commitment in case you needed a tie-breaker. Or something.