VOTE: Time Warp HOF Ballot 1965

[Matt from TN]

1936 Initial Ballot Results, 1937 Results, 1938 Results, 1939 Results, 1940 Results,
1941 Results, 1942 Results, 1943 Results, 1944 Results, 1945 Results,
1946 Results, 1947 Results, 1948 Results, 1949 Results, 1950 Results,
1951 Results, 1952 Results, 1953 Results, 1954 Results, 1955 Results,
1956 Results, 1957 Results, 1958 Results, 1959 Results, 1960 Results (lost in board crash)
1961 Results, 1962 Results, 1963 Results, 1964 Results


No one was elected to the RL HOF by the BBWAA in 1965, but Pud Galvin was elected by the VC.

All players who received at least 5% of votes on the last ballot were retained for this ballot. I also added players who became eligible for the ballot in 1965 (retired after 1959 season).

All players not receiving 5% of votes on this ballot will be removed. Also, all players who have been retired for 20 years fall off this ballot if not elected.

Vote for as many or as few as you want. Max votes are 10.

HOF Standard: 50 is considered an average HOF'er. 100 is max.

PLEASE NOTE:
Players who lost service time to the war are denoted with: WWII

Note: OPS+ and ERA+ are listed for all players now. 100 is considered league average. The higher the # the better the player. This lets you see how they did in relation to the players of their generation while also letting you compare their dominance of the league to players from different eras.

Here's all HOF'er OPS+ for reference:

189 - Woody Woodson
166 - Dark Horse Allen
163 - Jason Tedford
159 - Whitey Kohse
158 - Oscar Vancini
152 - Jed Burke
152 - Patrick Seifried
149 - Genaro Nunez
148 - Whiskey Allen
146 - Peaches Badeau
145 - Blake Crocitto
141 - Ben Baum
141 - Tee Carver
141 - Ogden Wing
140 - Bud Breckenridge
140 - John Falise
140 - Ray Brown
140 - Scott Podlasek
140 - Dale Lamberty
140 - Bobby Martin
139 - Dewey Mickelsen
139 - Tom Howard
138 - Tyrell Chestnut
138 - Wolter Tjeenk-Willink
137 - Kid Fite
137 - Will Miller
137 - Steven Bussell
136 - Harry Cohan
136 - Jared Jarry
135 - John Klehammer
135 - Jimmy Ditty
134 - Carl Kahle
133 - Slap Hertzog
133 - Flaky Arsenault
133 - Roy Hobbs
133 - Dave Arkless
132 - Adolf Greisbach
132 - John Schmieder
132 - Cookie Parrish
131 - Chuck Rauch
131 - Nick Graves
130 - Sunny Davie
129 - Tom Turley
129 - George Ward
129 - Ping Hung
129 - Herman Dunkel
127 - Campbell Ditty
127 - Troy Kinnear
126 - Bull Zegri
124 - Levi Walls
123 - Dale Reneau
123 - Alan Liao
122 - Sam Kass
122 - Sal Rossi
121 - Quenton Misisca
120 - Ervin Skjerly
118 - Gus Kahle
114 - Jonny Perly
114 - Jon Minzey
110 - David McAuliffe
102 - Harry Finley


Batters

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
AVG: .364
Hits: 4000
HR: 557
RBI: 1906
2B: 665
BB: 1962
R: 2004
SB: 1297



Ted Stuart, SS, Last Season: 1948, HOF Standard: 31
1800 H, 258 2B, 45 HR, 757 RBI, 797 R, 631 K, 547 BB, 31 SB, .296 AVG, .749 OPS
OPS+: 110
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 9
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 25: NONE



Al Arsenault, LF, Last Season: 1950, HOF Standard: 47
2359 H, 557 2B, 285 HR, 1458 RBI, 1341 R, 414 K, 941 BB, 129 SB, .287 AVG, .854 OPS
OPS+: 135
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: 2B 2, 3B 1, RBI 1
Career Top 25: HR (16), RBI (22), 2B (10)



Maurice Misisca, 3B, Last Season: 1950, HOF Standard: 34
1657 H, 214 2B, 233 HR, 944 RBI, 849 R, 453 K, 674 BB, 68 SB, .291 AVG, .835 OPS
OPS+: 137
BOY Award: 1943, 1944, 1946
ROY Award: 1931
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 3
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: OBP 2, SLG 2, OPS 1, HR 2, RBI 1
Career Top 25: NONE



Genarito Nunez, 3B, Last Season: 1954, HOF Standard: 49
2432 H, 425 2B, 144 HR, 1151 RBI, 1159 R, 554 K, 567 BB, 141 SB, .314 AVG, .816 OPS
WWII - 2 Yrs
OPS+: 127
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Hits 1, 2B 1
Career Top 25: NONE



Hershel Lee, C, Last Season: 1957, HOF Standard: 37
1105 H, 211 2B, 237 HR, 798 RBI, 665 R, 574 K, 536 BB, 4 SB, .276 AVG, .886 OPS
OPS+: 142
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: 1948
Gold Gloves: 3
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Doubles 1
Career Top 25: NONE



Luther Ormiston, 3B, Last Season: 1956, HOF Standard: 38
1309 H, 262 2B, 281 HR, 1039 RBI, 888 R, 614 K, 886 BB, 27 SB, .273 AVG, .909 OPS
OPS+: 150
BOY Award: 1948, 1952
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 5
WS Victories: 4
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 1, HR 2, RBI 4
Career Top 25: NONE



Emil Pelto, C, Last Season: 1957, HOF Standard: 40
2196 H, 316 2B, 106 HR, 871 RBI, 915 R, 530 K, 541 BB, 10 SB, .305 AVG, .754 OPS
OPS+: 111
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 25: NONE



Lonny Arrendale, 1B, Last Season: 1958, HOF Standard: 38
2063 H, 238 2B, 324 HR, 1148 RBI, 1050 R, 914 K, 979 BB, 11 SB, .306 AVG, .888 OPS
OPS+: 147
BOY Award: 1949
ROY Award: 1944
Gold Gloves: 2
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 25: HR (24)


NEW



Morris Lutske, SS, Last Season: 1959, HOF Standard: 54
2618 H, 443 2B, 98 HR, 915 RBI, 1275 R, 713 K, 848 BB, 78 SB, .324 AVG, .820 OPS
WWII - 1 Yr
OPS+: 128
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 4
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: AB 3, Hits 3, Singles 2, Doubles 1
Career Top 25: NONE



Ray Kress, LF, Last Season: 1959, HOF Standard: 68
2525 H, 317 2B, 489 HR, 1551 RBI, 1773 R, 1014 K, 1954 BB, 155 SB, .327 AVG, 1.034 OPS
OPS+: 186
BOY Award: 1945, 1947, 1950, 1951, 1953
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 5
WS Victories: 4
Batting Titles: 4
Led League in: OBP 11, SLG 8, OPS 9, Runs 9, HR 6, RBI 1, BB 9
Career Top 25: HR (3), RBI (19), Runs (4), BB (2)



Bud Ayers, 3B, Last Season: 1959, HOF Standard: 44
2347 H, 393 2B, 261 HR, 1313 RBI, 1124 R, 438 K, 811 BB, 3 SB, .290 AVG, .798 OPS
WWII - 1 Yr
OPS+: 121
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 2
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 25: NONE



Ken Chaucer, 1B, Last Season: 1959, HOF Standard: 39
1977 H, 332 2B, 407 HR, 1287 RBI, 1108 R, 723 K, 862 BB, 22 SB, .291 AVG, .898 OPS
OPS+: 148
BOY Award: 1949, 1951
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 3
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 3, OPS 2, HR 3, RBI 3
Career Top 25: HR (6)



Joe Rodabaugh, LF/RF, Last Season: 1959, HOF Standard: 19
1311 H, 254 2B, 357 HR, 1039 RBI, 720 R, 618 K, 379 BB, 2 SB, .239 AVG, .775 OPS
OPS+: 113
BOY Award: 1952
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 1, HR 3, RBI 2
Career Top 25: HR (15)



Mike Fellner, SS, Last Season: 1959, HOF Standard: 48
2176 H, 329 2B, 325 HR, 1317 RBI, 1213 R, 952 K, 989 BB, 88 SB, .276 AVG, .811 OPS
OPS+: 127
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 25: HR (21)



James Lewis, RF/LF, Last Season: 1959, HOF Standard: 28
2404 H, 361 2B, 185 HR, 1123 RBI, 952 R, 649 K, 484 BB, 16 SB, .300 AVG, .761 OPS
OPS+: 113
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 25: NONE





Pitchers

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
ERA: 2.10
W: 446
K: 3407
CG: 601
SHO: 95

Here's all HOF'er OPS+ for reference:

210 - Andrew Murphy
163 - Frank Smith
162 - Tim Lopresto
161 - Raymond Gindler
158 - Allen Albertini
157 - Jethro Lee
157 - Cecil Tan
145 - Punchy Cote
145 - Howard Adams
144 - Johnny Cakes Sutton
142 - Cotton Simson
138 - Dave McBean
137 - Mark Krosser
137 - Johnny Swinson
136 - Bowie Castellon
134 - Otto Kahle
134 - Scott Fenner
133 - Jassen Nelson
131 - Remmy Paul
131 - Luke Riley
131 - Tobe Palmer
129 - David Wiskersham
124 - Bourbon Allen
124 - Art Booth
121 - Ahrend Nagel
120 - Terry Schukraft
115 - Mark Ponfick



Corky Stell, Last Season: 1956, HOF Standard: 26
163-108, 60.2%, 3.30 ERA, 15 SV, 2409 IP, 820 BB, 986 K, 30 CG, 8 SHO, 1.27 WHIP
ERA+: 131
POY Award: 1949, 1952, 1953
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 4
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 2, WHIP 1, Wins 2
Career Top 25: NONE


NEW



Hal Andrew, Last Season: 1959, HOF Standard: 48
270-179, 60.1%, 3.75 ERA, 4163.1 IP, 1545 BB, 2463 K, 166 CG, 28 SHO, 1.22 WHIP
ERA+: 116
POY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 5
WS Victories: 4
No-Hitters: 1
Led League in: ERA 1, WHIP 1, Wins 1, SHO 1
Career Top 25: K's (14)

[canadiancreed]

Lutske
Kress (there was no-one close to this guy according to the smiliar batters algorithim. WIld)
Fellner
Andrew
Ayers
Chaucer
Arrendale
Pelto
Nunez
Arsenault

[tward13]

Kress
Chaucer
Fellner

[ifspuds]

Stuart
Lee
Lutske
Kress
Chaucer
Fellner

And by the way, I liked Kress's career top 25 list:

Career Top 25: HR (3), RBI (19)Runs (4), Kress (2)

He was so great, he had a statistical category named after him. How he only managed to place 2nd in it, I have no idea.

[canadiancreed]

lol Matt jsut is having no luck

[DamnYankees]

Couldn't wait any longer, Matt? Darn...

Lee
Ormiston
Arrendale
Lutske
Chaucer
Fellner
Kress
Stuart

[DamnYankees]

Originally Posted by tward13

Kress
Chaucer
Fellner

Without being overly defensive, can you explain voting for Fellner and not Lutske? I'm curious as to that logic.

[DamnYankees]

The Keltner Test was first espoused by Bill James in the 1985 Bill James Baseball Abstract. It is a series of questions designed to evaluate whether or not a player is worthy of being enshrined into the Baseball Hall of Fame and is named after its first subject, Indians third baseman Ken Keltner (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/keltnke01.shtml). There are 6 MI from the post-war years who seem worthy of this test to test their merits. Tom Howard was put to it and elected. This year, let's put Lutske and Fellner to it.

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?

Lutske: No, but he played in the same league as Ray Kress. Every American Leaguer besides Kress will fail this test for the post-war years.

Fellner: No, but again, an unfair and indeterminate standard.

2. Was he the best player on his team?

Lutske: Yes. He supplanted Al Arsenault as the best player on the Red Sox in the late 40s and was their best player through 1956. While in a given year a teammate may have had a better year in that period, you find that Mo was the constant while other players fell off.

Fellner: Quite possibly. In his latter years with Brooklyn, the answer is a pretty clear yes. With the Cards, the answer is murkier, since Ogden Wing was pretty darn good, as was Cook and Nunez, tough Fellner was certainly great. By the time he was on the Giants he was at the tail end of his career, and couldn’t be called the best.

3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?

Lutske: As far as "the game" there needs to be the admission that in the first half of his career, he was up against the still effective Crocitto and Tom Howard in his prime, along with the rising Fellner. That makes the water murky up through 1951, by which time Howard and Fellner were both playing 2B. I think when one looks at Howard through 1950, it's really hard to put Mo above that. As great as Fellner often was, even he had problems topping that. He started the All Star game in 1945, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1951, 1952, 1953, and 1957. The only reason he didn’t start in 1950 was an injury – that was actually his best year ever.

Fellner: Started the AS game in 1947, 1953, and 1955, while being a reserve in 1945 and 1948-1952. It’s not as clear he was ever the best NL 2B or SS for any period of years, but he was always one of the best. One could cherry pick seasons where he might have been the best at his position, but due to his inconsistancy over a period of season people like Howard, Lutske, Vardaman or Perly would top him.

4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?

Lutske: He was a utility player in 1944 backing up Eric Teeuw and Pokey Dorsey. Very little impact on the pennant race - the Sox went on a 27-5 stretch that bust the race open in mid-August. In the World Series, he platooned with Teeuw and ended up starting more because the Giants a pair of lefties and made the most of his chances. His key moment was an 8th inning hit to tie the decisive Game 6 which the Sox would in in extra innings.

In 1945 the Sox blew the doors off the race early and never looked back. Morris was one of the hot players who led the club out of the gate, before slowing down late. His key impact was on the 1949 season where he was red hot in September as the Sox pulled away from the White Sox.

Fellner: He won 2 rings. The first he didn’t contribute much to, being a rookie and playing pretty poorly.

In 1950, his trade to the Cardinals literally had the Phils conceed the pennant race *before* the season and go into rebuilding. He delivered, behing the best player on the team. In addition, he was willing to move from his "star position" of SS to 2B to allow the better defender Cliff Stoller to move to SS and solidify the defense (the RA dropped from 4.51 to 4.05 after the move... even with staff ace Rock Charnley going down to a CEI in August).

In 1953 he moved back to SS to open a spot for Rex Seelinger, an very poor defensive SS but passable 2B and good bat. It was one of the moves that helped the Cards on their way in 1953-54. He also had the big second half (.289/.403/.566/.969 with 17 HR) in 1954 as the Cards went from half a game back of the Cubs to burying them.

5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?

Lutske: No. His career completely fell off a cliff at the age of 35, killing his career batting average. Many suspect he withheld knowledge of an injury and tried to play through it, and it caused a rapid decline.

Fellner: Yes, he played well until the age of 37, and wasn’t really bad until his final year in San Francisco.

6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

Considering this is their first year on the ballot, along with Kress and Chaucer, the question is moot.

7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?

Lutske: The 5 most similar players are
• Adolf Greisbach (904)
• Rob Forrestal (897)
• Dale Thompson (884)
• Rex Seelinger (874)
• Dale Reneau (873)

Greisbach and Reneau are Hall of Famers. Seelinger is not yet eligible.

Fellner: The 5 most similar players are:

• Chuck Rauch (864)
• Willard Schwarz (818)
• Howard Ayers (811)
• Howard Sheridan (808)
• Herman Dunkel (808)

Rauch and Dunkel are Hall of Famers. Schwarz was always on the edge. Ayers isn’t yet eligible.

Keep in mind, these numbers are from CatoBase, and thus don’t have dead ball players. It’s very likely that with a player like Lutske, there are going to be deadball comparisons.

8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?

Lutske: HOF Standard is 64.

Fellner: HOF Standard is 53.

The average batter in the HOF is 58.

9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

Lutske: Not really. This is very hard to say in OOTP, but there isn’t much to say either way. He had no real splits of note, and got no boost from Fenway.

Fellner: .261/.338/.431/.769 Home
.290/.373/.477/.850 Road

That's a large spread. Rather odd since he played in a nuetral park (Ebbets) and a pair of very good parks for right handed power hitters (Sportsman's and the Polo Grounds). Worth mentioning, though it's hard to say what it means. If it was reversed, it would be easy to say that he got a boost from his parks.

Improved with RISP.

Tendency to "wear down" and fade come September. 1954 is an exception.

10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?

Lutske: Yes, probably. The only other SS on the ballot is Ted Stuart (not counting Fellner), and Lutske is pretty clearly better than Stuart.

Fellner: Again, yes. (Not including Lutske). Fellner also played about 20% of his career at 2B, and there are no other 2B on the ballot.

11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

Lutske: He had MVP-caliber seasons in 1945, 1947, and 1949, and would have in 1950 if not for his injury which cost him his best year ever. We don’t have win share data for these years, which makes these subjective calls. In 1952 and 1953 he was around 30 win shares, which is considered an MVP threshold, but he played in the same league as Ray Kress.

Fellner: He was great in ’48, ’50, and ’54, but never really had MVP-numbers, and never reached 30 win shares. He reached 25 win shares only once, in 1954.

12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?

All-Star games are listed above for both in analyzing if they were the best at their positions. Both played in many games – very few MI who play in that many All-Star games don’t make the HOF.

13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?

Lutske: In 1945 and 1949, Lutske was clearly the best player on his team with 1 or two compatriots (Dorsey and Arsenault were both great in 1945, and Skeeter was great in 1949). They won pennants in both years with Lutske at the front of their attack.

Alternate look: I think Pokey was pretty clearly the best player on the 1945 team. One has to remember that he was the *best* defensive 2B in the era, and Mo has just 5 range at SS. I also think that Skeeter rates out better in 1949 - 61 points of OBP is tough to overcome, especially when one is also bleeding SLG points as well.

I think historically in the Live Era, it's been shown to be very hard to win a pennant when your best OPS player is 10th in the league (1945) or worse (1949) in the league. On the other hand, Pokey and Skeeter were each #5.

I haven't studied that, but I suspect less than 25% of the Live Era pennant winners have failed to have a player higher than #10 on the OPS leaderboard. The only ones that jump instantly to mind are the 1959 Reds (who's best player as actually Libermann) and the Freak Tigers of 1962-63 (again, pitchers were their best players).

Anyway, I think the answer to this might be "no". I'm not ready to say that's Mo's fault, or a knock on him. Ken Chaucer never was the best player on a pennant winner, and that's not a reflection on him. I think a team could win a pennant with Mo as the best player.

Fellner: In 1950, he and Wing were clearly the best players on the team, and they won the World Series. He never really had another year where he was clearly the best on his team and they won the pennant.

14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?

No for both.

15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

Lutske: A very controversial player, with a media storyline much like Ted Williams (not that they have the same HOF credentials). He got into one fight with Turk Baker which marred his career for a while, but tried to rehab his image, with varying interpretations of success. We may need more time to really see how his career was shaped, but like Williams, seems to have gotten into a battle with the sportswriters which hurt his public image.

Fellner: Nothing of note – a standup guy who didn’t get in trouble.

[DamnYankees]

Matt, where do you get these HOF standards from? Catobase says Lutske is a 64, not a 54, and Kress is a 74, not a 68. Those are the only two I checked.

[scprideandms]

NO matter where HOF came from Lutske Kress only legits

[marc]

Nunez
Chaucher
Kress
Lutske
Andrew

[jdw]

Hal Andrew
Lonny Arrendale
Ken Chaucer
Mike Fellner
Hershel Lee
Morris Lutske
Ray Kress
Maurice Misisca
Luther Ormiston
Corky Stell


John

[jdw]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

Ayers
Pelto
Nunez

When did Pelto get better than Lee?

And Tito Jr. & Bud better than Luther?




John

[jdw]

Originally Posted by Matt from TN

Maurice Misisca, 3B, Last Season: 1950, HOF Standard: 34
1657 H, 214 2B, 233 HR, 944 RBI, 849 R, 453 K, 674 BB, 68 SB, .291 AVG, .835 OPS
OPS+: 137
BOY Award: 1943, 1944, 1946
ROY Award: 1931
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: OBP 2, SLG 2, OPS 1, HR 2, RBI 1
Career Top 25: NONE

It's 4 and 3. He was injured in mid September 1949 as the Phils were winning the NL. He was the club's primary 3B, and actually had a good season.


John

[tward13]

Originally Posted by DamnYankees

Without being overly defensive, can you explain voting for Fellner and not Lutske? I'm curious as to that logic.

Um. Because I posted at 12:20 am?

If allowed I'll amend my vote to include Lutske.

[pat]

Lutske
Kress
Fellner

[fvamos]

And Tito Jr. & Bud better than Luther?

My problem with Luther is his low hit total as well as his average being a very poor .273. he was very good, just not over an extended period of time for me, sorry. I think he might be a candidate for the VC

My votes:
Kress
Chaucer
Lutske
Fellner
Arrendale
Nunez

[tward13]

Originally Posted by tward13

Um. Because I posted at 12:20 am?

If allowed I'll amend my vote to include Lutske.

Ah the hell with it. Since it looks like he's getting in anyway I'll be the angry sportswriter who doesn't vote for him because of his controversial nature.

No change for me.

[TwinsFan86]

Lutske
Kress
Ayers
Chaucer
Andrew
Arsenault
Misisca
Nunez
Arrendale

[jdw]

> My problem with Luther is his low hit total as
> well as his average being a very poor .273. he
> was very good, just not over an extended
> period of time for me, sorry.

Per 162 game averages:

Luther
.273/.385/.524/.909
150/30/5/32 H/2B/3B/HR
101/119 R/RBI and 101/70 BB/K
108.3 XR

Tito Jr.
.314/.358/.454/.812
186/32/8/11 H/2B/3B/HR
88/88 R/RBI and 43/42 BB/K
89.4 XR

Bud
.290/.355/.443/.798
169/28/2/18 H/2B/3B/HR
81/94 R/RBI and 58/31 BB/K
86.9 XR

There is a wonderful myth started at somepoint that Luther was a one dimensional player. It's not true. Low BA? He walked a ton, so he ended up actually getting on base more than the Higer BA but low BB guys Tito Jr. and Bud.

He's called a HR guy who only drove in runs because Kress was infront of him, which misses the reality that because he got on so much that he also was a *run* scorer. Far more so than the other two Higher BA guys.

As far as how long they were great:

OPS Leader Boards

Luther
1947-7-.911
1948-2-1.049
1949-3-.980
1950-8-.941
1951-7-.884
1952-2-1.044
1954-7-.932

Tito Jr.
1940-9-.825
1950-10-.892

Bud
1951-4-.914

Luther was a great player from 1947-54.

It's really hard to point to Tito and Bud even being great. Comes across more like hitting the OPS Leader Board once or twice in career years. That's not a sign of greatness. Even Walter Davis hit the OPS Leaderboard once, and far higher on up than Tito and Bud.


John