Collection of Requests to make Historical Replaying better

Tiger Fan · 07-13-2006, 01:39 AM

This is a consolidation of all of the ideas in the thread Marc posted requesting suggestions for Historical play enhancements. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126963

I tried to break it down by categories although certainly many items could qualify for more than one category. I am not offering my own comments on any of the suggestions here. I simply want to catalogue them in a fairly easy to follow list. If you wish to add something not listed below to this thread feel free but please do not repeat things already mentioned. Ideally we can keep this thread as clutter-free as possible and we can debate the merits of each request elsewhere.

I will also make sure this list gets brought to the attention of Markus and Marc and I will plead with them to get anything feasible included in a patch. However, it is my belief that many of these requests are more future version goals than something that can be added quickly in a patch.

Here they are. Listed in no particular order. For the most part I am just copying and pasting so the comments you read are not from me.

GAME SETUP
1- the ability to have more than two subleagues in a given minor league level

2- The ability to add or delete a league or subleague at any time in your career. Perhaps also an option to allow a league to go dormant for several years and retain it's history when it is restarted.

3- A database that will automatically add real life minor league affiliates for any given year for those choosing to use minors.

4- Built-in or better support for Lahman or other databases. Ideally if a legal solution can be found have them ship with the game to eliminate the need for novice users to have to figure out how to search for the master.csv

5- More varied playoff options. In particular a request for what is known as the Shaughnessy playoff format. For those who have not heard of it the format is essentially a four-team playoff where in the first round, the 1st-place and 3rd-place teams played each other, as did the 2nd-place and 4th-place teams. The winners of those series advanced to the second (final) round to determine the league champion. This playoff format is recognizable as the "Shaughnessy playoffs" since it was developed in 1932 by International League executive Frank Shaughnessy.

6- Allow a Rule V Draft when playing with no minors. Or, said a different way, allow a Rule V Draft from the reserve roster.

7- Let the game draw player photos from the data/photos folder rather than the saved_games/example.lg/news/html/images folder. This would save a ton of time when doing more than one historical replay.

8- Historical leagues either need ghost players back in so we can have minor leagues or some other way to keep fictional players out. They (fictional players) are just way to intrusive upon the leagues and not having minors leagues at all really stunts the way some users play. This, like most other requests should be an option for those who like the current system.

9-Better ratings based on missing data in the standard Lahman database. I like the 3rd party DB's which can help this, but most of the time I dont want two of the same player in the league (Ruth, Wood, etc...) or I dont want Negro League players in the league, or I dont want different debut years, and going through and deleting them from the 3rd party DB's can be a pain in the butt. A more accurate import from the standard Lahman would help that

10- The ability to import individual teams from the Lahman and other databases. (PureSim already has this one. It's very useful.)

11-Instead of having the current option of Adjust hitters with less than X at-bats (in THE IMPORTED SEASON), make it an option that is career based, ie: Adjust Hitters with less than X AB in their CAREER

12- allow players who can hit and pitch to be able to do so automatically. Babe Ruth, Joe Wood, etc.

13- The ability to start a historical league prior to 1901. Sans direct support for that, at least allow me to start a nineteenth century league with a Lahman imported initial draft, rather than having to do the "start a year early" workaround.

14- An option to Delete career statistics - important for those people who want to start a historical league without the lahman-imported career records predating their league

15- Ability to designate which year's rookies import in amatuer drafts. This is important because of the pre-season only limitation on when you can alter the league structure. If you add a team in the pre-season, and then want it to participate in a February/March amateur draft before the season starts, the game will import next year's rookies, causing them to debut a year early. This situation could also be addressed by loosening the rules on when you can edit the league structure

16- The ability to import players age based upon the year imported, rather than having the data compared to the player's birth year relative to the start date of the league.

17- Ability to edit league structure before preseason so we can add the expansion team and have it import the players onto the right team and not into FA

18- Ability to edit career stats in game setup, or in other words while still able to make a quickstart. (I don't want to change simmed results, just want to combine with request "for an Alltime League and be able to modify the year #'s.)

19- Ability to input Stats to get Ratings (as somebody else suggested as well). Extremely helpful for making a custom historical league...but helpful in general as well.

20-Ability to edit all league (& hopefully in future team) records, preferably with a simple txt or csv file as well as in-game.

HISTORICAL PROGRESSION
1- Expansion. Perhaps an option where the user can select for the game to automatically add the expansion teams and populate them with players in the proper seasons they debut or allow the user to expand when he chooses. Going hand in hand with this would be options on how to run the expansion draft. How many players can each established team protect? Do they get to pullback a player when one is lost? Is there a maximum that can be taken from any one team? etc.

2 - "era" settings that change automatically over time, i.e. bullpen usage, starting pitcher endurance, closer usage, stealing and bunting frequency

3- The ability to automatically update stadiums with changed dimensions and park effects

4- Add historical manager/GM models for the AI to emulate tendencies in the way real teams were managed or run.

5- An option to either manually change or automatically have the league financial structure evolve through the years.

ADD-ONS
1- Historical quickstarts, say one per decade, that come with the game or as a gamer created add-on.

2- Add a Baseball Timeline feature that incorporates actual baseball and real-world historical news to replays

HISTORICAL BALLPARKS AND WEATHER
In addition to the one listed in game setup to have the new ballparks automatically enter the game in the real life season they debuted there were several other park related requests.

1-The ballpark factors of historic stadiums could be improved, especially in earlier stadiums here the game is kinda cookie-cutter in its approach even though the dimensions are known

2- Stadium capacity: 42,000. That default number needs to change. You can edit it now but I wish it were more "intelligent". Every stadium now seats 42,000 or something. Of course, this isn't THAT big a deal since you can control the "average" attendence anyway. BUT, I've simmed the early 1900's and when teams make the World Series you often get 42,000 fans watching the game in a stadium that could not hold that many even with standing room only

3-what about reading and importing ballpark info from a txt/csv file? I think we can create that file so that each year, the game can read that file and assign the appropriate ballpark, dimensions, seats, and park factors to the relevant team. We can work out the details if you are interested.

4- Weather would be nice. I will go one step beyond OOTP6.5 and suggest rainouts rather than just rain delays be incorporated into the game.

STATS, AWARDS AND LEAGUE HISTORY
1- Incorporate player-chosen awards/ASG selections. Better yet, add an option to select "All-League" players for those who choose not to have an ASG.

2-Simulate the voting by writers/HOF committee members on the HOF as well as the above areas, with the player being able to vote/override as he sees fit. News articles annoucing the voting results. Also consider having a waiting period before HOF induction rather than have the players immediately eligible. Along this lines an option to turn the HOF on whenever you choose.

3-An option to have historically accurate past records and league leaderboards. If I import in 1983 I want to see the league records up to that point (even if there was a cutoff of say 1901)

4-Probably impossible without some kind of sponser from baseballreference or a like site, but how about a stat split called "in real life". That way, we can immediately compare a players ootp career with his in real life.
His career totals vs in real life, what they did in a given year vs what the did in real life that year, etc.

5- OOTP continues to improve the stats and history related to individual players, which is great. What I hope to begin seeing is more emphasis on team history -- a better comparison of team results over a period of years so that dynasties and rivalries can arise and be noted.

6- Tracking of manager and coach career stats

7- Postseason playoff leaderboards

8- Descriptions and histories of stadiums, together with the ability to build new stadiums or expand old ones, would also be nice.

TRANSACTIONS
1- Allow pure cash sales of players, especially from unaffiliated minor league teams to major league teams. In conjunction with (1), improve financial AI so that financially distressed teams will be forced to sell off their players (or at least try to dump expensive contracts).

2- For teams with no minors, make it possible to fix the size of the reserve roster or disable reserve rosters entirely

3- Unaffiliated minors that work a little better. They shouldn't be able to sign major league stars.

4-Shop player feature with an option to turn it on or off for those who do not like it

IN GAME MANAGER OPTIONS
1- I just want more specific on-field options. Roided up sluggers only need to know how to swing away, but us deadball fans should be able to call for delayed double steals, baltimore chops & other odd plays the 1890s Orioles pulled off. Just basic control of the on-field style of the older eras. Doesn't seem like any sim really has that

rwd59 · 07-13-2006, 02:01 AM

How about an option to base a players rookie import ratings on his rookie year plus x number of years. Then I could choose say to import players based on the import year plus the next 2 years of their career per se.

The Wolf · 07-13-2006, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

This is a consolidation of all of the ideas in the thread Marc posted requesting suggestions for Historical play enhancements. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126963

I tried to break it down by categories although certainly many items could qualify for more than one category. I am not offering my own comments on any of the suggestions here. I simply want to catalogue them in a fairly easy to follow list. If you wish to add something not listed below to this thread feel free but please do not repeat things already mentioned. Ideally we can keep this thread as clutter-free as possible and we can debate the merits of each request elsewhere.

I will also make sure this list gets brought to the attention of Markus and Marc and I will plead with them to get anything feasible included in a patch. However, it is my belief that many of these requests are more future version goals than something that can be added quickly in a patch.

Here they are. Listed in no particular order. For the most part I am just copying and pasting so the comments you read are not from me.

GAME SETUP
1- the ability to have more than two subleagues in a given minor league level

2- The ability to add or delete a league or subleague at any time in your career. Perhaps also an option to allow a league to go dormant for several years and retain it's history when it is restarted.

3- A database that will automatically add real life minor league affiliates for any given year for those choosing to use minors.

4- Built-in or better support for Lahman or other databases. Ideally if a legal solution can be found have them ship with the game to eliminate the need for novice users to have to figure out how to search for the master.csv

5- More varied playoff options. In particular a request for what is known as the Shaughnessy playoff format. For those who have not heard of it the format is essentially a four-team playoff where in the first round, the 1st-place and 3rd-place teams played each other, as did the 2nd-place and 4th-place teams. The winners of those series advanced to the second (final) round to determine the league champion. This playoff format is recognizable as the "Shaughnessy playoffs" since it was developed in 1932 by International League executive Frank Shaughnessy.

6- Allow a Rule V Draft when playing with no minors. Or, said a different way, allow a Rule V Draft from the reserve roster.

7- Let the game draw player photos from the data/photos folder rather than the saved_games/example.lg/news/html/images folder. This would save a ton of time when doing more than one historical replay.

8- Historical leagues either need ghost players back in so we can have minor leagues or some other way to keep fictional players out. They (fictional players) are just way to intrusive upon the leagues and not having minors leagues at all really stunts the way some users play. This, like most other requests should be an option for those who like the current system.

9-Better ratings based on missing data in the standard Lahman database. I like the 3rd party DB's which can help this, but most of the time I dont want two of the same player in the league (Ruth, Wood, etc...) or I dont want Negro League players in the league, or I dont want different debut years, and going through and deleting them from the 3rd party DB's can be a pain in the butt. A more accurate import from the standard Lahman would help that

10- The ability to import individual teams from the Lahman and other databases. (PureSim already has this one. It's very useful.)

11-Instead of having the current option of Adjust hitters with less than X at-bats (in THE IMPORTED SEASON), make it an option that is career based, ie: Adjust Hitters with less than X AB in their CAREER

12- allow players who can hit and pitch to be able to do so automatically. Babe Ruth, Joe Wood, etc.

13- The ability to start a historical league prior to 1901. Sans direct support for that, at least allow me to start a nineteenth century league with a Lahman imported initial draft, rather than having to do the "start a year early" workaround.

14- An option to Delete career statistics - important for those people who want to start a historical league without the lahman-imported career records predating their league

15- Ability to designate which year's rookies import in amatuer drafts. This is important because of the pre-season only limitation on when you can alter the league structure. If you add a team in the pre-season, and then want it to participate in a February/March amateur draft before the season starts, the game will import next year's rookies, causing them to debut a year early. This situation could also be addressed by loosening the rules on when you can edit the league structure

16- The ability to import players age based upon the year imported, rather than having the data compared to the player's birth year relative to the start date of the league.

17- Ability to edit league structure before preseason so we can add the expansion team and have it import the players onto the right team and not into FA

18- Ability to edit career stats in game setup, or in other words while still able to make a quickstart. (I don't want to change simmed results, just want to combine with request "for an Alltime League and be able to modify the year #'s.)

19- Ability to input Stats to get Ratings (as somebody else suggested as well). Extremely helpful for making a custom historical league...but helpful in general as well.

20-Ability to edit all league (& hopefully in future team) records, preferably with a simple txt or csv file as well as in-game.

HISTORICAL PROGRESSION
1- Expansion. Perhaps an option where the user can select for the game to automatically add the expansion teams and populate them with players in the proper seasons they debut or allow the user to expand when he chooses. Going hand in hand with this would be options on how to run the expansion draft. How many players can each established team protect? Do they get to pullback a player when one is lost? Is there a maximum that can be taken from any one team? etc.

2 - "era" settings that change automatically over time, i.e. bullpen usage, starting pitcher endurance, closer usage, stealing and bunting frequency

3- The ability to automatically update stadiums with changed dimensions and park effects

4- Add historical manager/GM models for the AI to emulate tendencies in the way real teams were managed or run.

5- An option to either manually change or automatically have the league financial structure evolve through the years.

ADD-ONS
1- Historical quickstarts, say one per decade, that come with the game or as a gamer created add-on.

2- Add a Baseball Timeline feature that incorporates actual baseball and real-world historical news to replays

HISTORICAL BALLPARKS AND WEATHER
In addition to the one listed in game setup to have the new ballparks automatically enter the game in the real life season they debuted there were several other park related requests.

1-The ballpark factors of historic stadiums could be improved, especially in earlier stadiums here the game is kinda cookie-cutter in its approach even though the dimensions are known

2- Stadium capacity: 42,000. That default number needs to change. You can edit it now but I wish it were more "intelligent". Every stadium now seats 42,000 or something. Of course, this isn't THAT big a deal since you can control the "average" attendence anyway. BUT, I've simmed the early 1900's and when teams make the World Series you often get 42,000 fans watching the game in a stadium that could not hold that many even with standing room only

3-what about reading and importing ballpark info from a txt/csv file? I think we can create that file so that each year, the game can read that file and assign the appropriate ballpark, dimensions, seats, and park factors to the relevant team. We can work out the details if you are interested.

4- Weather would be nice. I will go one step beyond OOTP6.5 and suggest rainouts rather than just rain delays be incorporated into the game.

STATS, AWARDS AND LEAGUE HISTORY
1- Incorporate player-chosen awards/ASG selections. Better yet, add an option to select "All-League" players for those who choose not to have an ASG.

2-Simulate the voting by writers/HOF committee members on the HOF as well as the above areas, with the player being able to vote/override as he sees fit. News articles annoucing the voting results. Also consider having a waiting period before HOF induction rather than have the players immediately eligible. Along this lines an option to turn the HOF on whenever you choose.

3-An option to have historically accurate past records and league leaderboards. If I import in 1983 I want to see the league records up to that point (even if there was a cutoff of say 1901)

4-Probably impossible without some kind of sponser from baseballreference or a like site, but how about a stat split called "in real life". That way, we can immediately compare a players ootp career with his in real life.
His career totals vs in real life, what they did in a given year vs what the did in real life that year, etc.

5- OOTP continues to improve the stats and history related to individual players, which is great. What I hope to begin seeing is more emphasis on team history -- a better comparison of team results over a period of years so that dynasties and rivalries can arise and be noted.

6- Tracking of manager and coach career stats

7- Postseason playoff leaderboards

8- Descriptions and histories of stadiums, together with the ability to build new stadiums or expand old ones, would also be nice.

TRANSACTIONS
1- Allow pure cash sales of players, especially from unaffiliated minor league teams to major league teams. In conjunction with (1), improve financial AI so that financially distressed teams will be forced to sell off their players (or at least try to dump expensive contracts).

2- For teams with no minors, make it possible to fix the size of the reserve roster or disable reserve rosters entirely

3- Unaffiliated minors that work a little better. They shouldn't be able to sign major league stars.

4-Shop player feature with an option to turn it on or off for those who do not like it

IN GAME MANAGER OPTIONS
1- I just want more specific on-field options. Roided up sluggers only need to know how to swing away, but us deadball fans should be able to call for delayed double steals, baltimore chops & other odd plays the 1890s Orioles pulled off. Just basic control of the on-field style of the older eras. Doesn't seem like any sim really has that

Markus, please put them all in the game.

Claymore · 07-13-2006, 02:32 AM

You are the man Tiger Fan!!!

rasnell · 07-13-2006, 03:42 AM

In-game, solo play fun of historical play

Shaun Sullivan and Markus have always complimented each other since they both started as independent developers of baseball text sim games. I have always supported both, just as many OOTPers. PureSim 2007 has clearly surpassed OOTP 2006 in dramatic fashion for fun, ease of interface and solo play and here are the specifics on what I believe is essential for OOTP to keep my satisfaction:

1. Study the sheer beauty of the solo play game screen in PureSim. It is very easy to set up your customized stadium, drag and point where you want the fielder and runner boxes to display. The roster cards show both teams' lineups in one screen view while playing. You know who is coming up to bat, you know the pitch count, the righty/lefty of the pitcher, the catcher arm rating, the season stats -- all in the in-game screen view without having to click, toggle or maneuver.

2. You can truly watch the game. The in-ball flight is wonderful. It is easy to customize to any stadium photo, again by simple dragging and clicking where this should appear. No x-y coordinates like OOTP requires.

3. Calling plays is one click and very, very simple (L to jump to lineups; H for hit and run; 2 to steal second base; T to pitch out; P to pitch around). It is so simple; no clickfest; very well-designed.

4. Fonts, text, play by play are all very visible, visually attractive, very easy on the eyes of old-time historical simmers like myself.

5. The play by play text is very valuable. Puresim displays the season stats and that day's game stats for the batter inside the play by play text. It's wonderful.

6. You can actually see the entire play in the play-by-play text window. This is a serious oversight in the current design of OOTP 2006 in my opinion.

7. The current screens to see an OOTP game are a mess. Neither one of the views has the necessary info to truly enjoy solo play of a historical sim. With all of the outstanding stats that OOTP now accumulates -- and what really puts you ahead of any competitor -- how come I can't get the most relevant data in my solo play views? For example, when I'm in the playoffs, I could care less about records in grass, turf, home, away, when it's raining. I just want to know what is that player's season stats when I'm facing him in the playoffs. It's not there, amid all the clutter, stats and info.

8. OOTP 2006 has made a great breakthrough with all the filters and views and bookmarks. How come they cannot apply to the game view window? Why can't I set filters or views to see in-game lineups customized to a season stat view, a today's game stat view, a pitcher matchup view. You're collecting all these stats; why can't you make them simple to see in the solo play view?

9. The ability to see both team lineups, call plays with one click, have essential in-game data in one view for pitch count and catcher arm rating are not feature requests for OOTP 2007. They are essential patch requests for OOTP 2006. Without them, PureSim 2007 is where I'll be.

10. PureSim already has the ability to compare career sim stats with real Lahman database career stats. Look at how elegant the player card data is displayed in PureSim. It tracks and shows you exactly what Lahman has imported for every year in the "real career stats" vs. the "simmed career stats."

My comparison to PureSim and OOTP is meant to be complimentary. Again, I support both developers. Both of you have already surpassed Strat-O-Matic as the gold standard. You've passed Diamond Mind. But neither one of you has hit the home run that will truly satisfy our quest for today's standard.

Markus is winning overwhelmingly for his attempted depth of Rule 5, waivers, and all the complicated interaction of modern-day baseball, the depth of stats and info.

Shaun is winning hands' down for faithfulfulness to historical play -- absolutely no fictional players, a minors with real players, extremely easy interface, very well-designed solo play, and, to me, the biggest deal of all -- in-game ball flight with sounds that are relevant and rewarding.

How am I personally dividing my time right now? I'm closely watching OOTP 2006 for patches and simming almost as a public beta tester waiting for the bugs to go away. I really want to like OOTP because of its depth, complexities and stats. But I'm playing my games, having a blast and enjoying historical sims in PureSim as my "real" game on the desktop right now. This is the first time, in all versions, where I'm leaning toward PureSim as my favorite all around for solo play.

Gil Thorp · 07-13-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

[B]
1. Study the sheer beauty of the solo play game screen in PureSim.

Don't forget the full screen stadium photos, and the simplicity of importing ballpark mod files. The ball flight animations with the text box giving the play result are wonderful. I really prefer Puresim's "just the facts" pbp text as well. Watching/playing a game in Puresim just feels more like real baseball. Having said that, I still prefer OOTP overall, but as someone who likes to play out my games, I really wish they would improve the in game play.

Tiger Fan · 07-13-2006, 01:21 PM

rwd59 - I will add your request to my master list.

rasnell and Gil Thorp

Both of you have raised very good points but I think they more belong in general discussion feature requests rather than in a historical league play enhancement thread. The points are valid but they affect everyone who plays out their games rather than just historical simmers. For that reason I am not going to add them to the historical list but I urge you post them in the general discussion area.

In this thread I think our focus should be much more on the things that can help us improve the ease of use and statisical accuracy of long term historical simming.

For example - ball flight animation in game affects all types of leagues and belongs in a general discussion feature request thread. Having the proper stadiums easily available when they really made their debut strictly affects historical simmers and belongs here.

Again both of you make some good points. I just want to see if we can keep this thread a little more narrow in it's focus.

thanks

Gil Thorp · 07-13-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

Historical leagues either need ghost players back in so we can have minor leagues or some other way to keep fictional players out. They (fictional players) are just way to intrusive upon the leagues and not having minors leagues at all really stunts the way some users play. This, like most other requests should be an option for those who like the current system.

If only one thing from this list can be implemented, this should be it IMO.

Swimmer · 07-13-2006, 02:06 PM

How about the ability to add and/or rename the levels of minor league. D Classification Ball used to be a huge part of the American psyche. It would be nice if we could add classifications, or at least rename the default classifications to match the levels of the year that we are simming.

Tiger Fan · 07-13-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimmer

How about the ability to add and/or rename the levels of minor league. D Classification Ball used to be a huge part of the American psyche. It would be nice if we could add classifications, or at least rename the default classifications to match the levels of the year that we are simming.

I got around it this way (see image) but I agree it would be nice if the shortname (A, SA, etc) that appear on player stats pages could be editable. Good idea.

rasnell · 07-13-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

rwd59 - I will add your request to my master list.

rasnell and Gil Thorp

Both of you have raised very good points but I think they more belong in general discussion feature requests rather than in a historical league play enhancement thread. The points are valid but they affect everyone who plays out their games rather than just historical simmers. For that reason I am not going to add them to the historical list but I urge you post them in the general discussion area.

In this thread I think our focus should be much more on the things that can help us improve the ease of use and statisical accuracy of long term historical simming.

For example - ball flight animation in game affects all types of leagues and belongs in a general discussion feature request thread. Having the proper stadiums easily available when they really made their debut strictly affects historical simmers and belongs here.

Again both of you make some good points. I just want to see if we can keep this thread a little more narrow in it's focus.

thanks

I don't want to debate your point, but my whole reason for playing text sim is for historical purposes. Without good solo play or in-game features, it's worthless for historical sims.

I agree with focusing on the statistical accuracy part, but the fun of seeing these historical replays is just as essential in my opinion and the most significant reason for my dissatisfaction with OOTP 2006.

I would strongly urge you to reconsider Tiger Fan and allow this to be reported as part of the essential historical sim needs. As noted, I'm already playing out on PureSim now because OOTP is not satisfactory at this point. And that's the first time that I think OOTP is behind.

The Wolf · 07-13-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

In-game, solo play fun of historical play

Shaun Sullivan and Markus have always complimented each other since they both started as independent developers of baseball text sim games. I have always supported both, just as many OOTPers. PureSim 2007 has clearly surpassed OOTP 2006 in dramatic fashion for fun, ease of interface and solo play and here are the specifics on what I believe is essential for OOTP to keep my satisfaction:

1. Study the sheer beauty of the solo play game screen in PureSim. It is very easy to set up your customized stadium, drag and point where you want the fielder and runner boxes to display. The roster cards show both teams' lineups in one screen view while playing. You know who is coming up to bat, you know the pitch count, the righty/lefty of the pitcher, the catcher arm rating, the season stats -- all in the in-game screen view without having to click, toggle or maneuver.

2. You can truly watch the game. The in-ball flight is wonderful. It is easy to customize to any stadium photo, again by simple dragging and clicking where this should appear. No x-y coordinates like OOTP requires.

3. Calling plays is one click and very, very simple (L to jump to lineups; H for hit and run; 2 to steal second base; T to pitch out; P to pitch around). It is so simple; no clickfest; very well-designed.

4. Fonts, text, play by play are all very visible, visually attractive, very easy on the eyes of old-time historical simmers like myself.

5. The play by play text is very valuable. Puresim displays the season stats and that day's game stats for the batter inside the play by play text. It's wonderful.

6. You can actually see the entire play in the play-by-play text window. This is a serious oversight in the current design of OOTP 2006 in my opinion.

7. The current screens to see an OOTP game are a mess. Neither one of the views has the necessary info to truly enjoy solo play of a historical sim. With all of the outstanding stats that OOTP now accumulates -- and what really puts you ahead of any competitor -- how come I can't get the most relevant data in my solo play views? For example, when I'm in the playoffs, I could care less about records in grass, turf, home, away, when it's raining. I just want to know what is that player's season stats when I'm facing him in the playoffs. It's not there, amid all the clutter, stats and info.

8. OOTP 2006 has made a great breakthrough with all the filters and views and bookmarks. How come they cannot apply to the game view window? Why can't I set filters or views to see in-game lineups customized to a season stat view, a today's game stat view, a pitcher matchup view. You're collecting all these stats; why can't you make them simple to see in the solo play view?

9. The ability to see both team lineups, call plays with one click, have essential in-game data in one view for pitch count and catcher arm rating are not feature requests for OOTP 2007. They are essential patch requests for OOTP 2006. Without them, PureSim 2007 is where I'll be.

10. PureSim already has the ability to compare career sim stats with real Lahman database career stats. Look at how elegant the player card data is displayed in PureSim. It tracks and shows you exactly what Lahman has imported for every year in the "real career stats" vs. the "simmed career stats."

My comparison to PureSim and OOTP is meant to be complimentary. Again, I support both developers. Both of you have already surpassed Strat-O-Matic as the gold standard. You've passed Diamond Mind. But neither one of you has hit the home run that will truly satisfy our quest for today's standard.

Markus is winning overwhelmingly for his attempted depth of Rule 5, waivers, and all the complicated interaction of modern-day baseball, the depth of stats and info.

Shaun is winning hands' down for faithfulfulness to historical play -- absolutely no fictional players, a minors with real players, extremely easy interface, very well-designed solo play, and, to me, the biggest deal of all -- in-game ball flight with sounds that are relevant and rewarding.

How am I personally dividing my time right now? I'm closely watching OOTP 2006 for patches and simming almost as a public beta tester waiting for the bugs to go away. I really want to like OOTP because of its depth, complexities and stats. But I'm playing my games, having a blast and enjoying historical sims in PureSim as my "real" game on the desktop right now. This is the first time, in all versions, where I'm leaning toward PureSim as my favorite all around for solo play.

Here's hoping that Marc and Markus read what you wrote and act on it.

Swimmer · 07-14-2006, 02:44 PM

Fix problems with the Financial Coefficient or make the negotiating AI able to handle small contracts.

The Financial Coefficient is fine for single year re-creations. But it breaks down when you progress through time and want to change the coefficient. The problem is that it scales current contracts as well as all of the other financial info in the game. In other words, if Joe Average receives a contract worth 10,000 per year this year, and next year you change the coefficient from .1 to .2, then Joe's contract scales up to 20,000 per year. This is silly. Once Joe agrees to a 10,000 per year contract, it should stay at 10,000 through its term.

You would think that you could realistically get around this by altering the salary curve numbers in the league setup, but this screws up the negotiating AI when you enter small numbers. When you have nineteenth century style numbers of around $250 minimum, $5,000 superstar, then everybody winds up signing for the league minimum. My theory is that this happens because the "gaps" between the different levels (superstar, star, average, etc.) are smaller than some minimum negotiating increment coded into the AI, so the AI doesn't think that it can get what it wants no matter what, leading it to settle for the minimum salary. I could be wrong about the cause, but I played a league from 1871 until 1915, nudging up the salary curve, and I didn't see one single player sign for over the league minimum until 1905, and even by 1915 about 95% of the league was at minimum.

BravesSince66 · 07-14-2006, 04:36 PM

Excellent summary Tiger Fan! I realize all of this probably won't happen within OOTP2006...but myabe by 2007 or 2008 we will have most of the features listed. This thing will be kicking some serious butt then!

Wheele8 · 07-14-2006, 05:07 PM

Excellent & very complete list. Thank you for compiling this here.
My #1 would be the ability to import single teams. #1b would be the ability to generate complete minor league systems with no fictional lplayers, or rather just " ghost" fictional players.

Syd Thrift · 07-19-2006, 07:19 AM

I posted this elsewhere, but the ability to farm your players from your reserve roster out to unaffiliated minor league teams would IMO give historical gamers the best of both worlds. From their standpoint, so long as you don't allow teams to sign anyone outside of the major league, it's the same as if you still had "ghost players" except that you can actually see the quality of the leagues the guys on your rster are hitting/pitching against. From the standpoint of realism, well, that's basically how the minors got started IRL, so what could be more realistic?

Another biggee, although not so much for historical leagues but rather historical/fictional ones, is the ability to add and delete leagues. I know there are workarounds for the Player's League and the Federal League and so on, but the "2 team, 10 game league" thing really breaks down when you are creating baseball as it existed in the 1890s but want to be able to play baseball as it existed in the 1930s (with scores and scores of minor league teams). On a related note, you should be able to affiliate an unaffiliated league over time.

Highlander · 07-26-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BravesSince66

Excellent summary Tiger Fan! I realize all of this probably won't happen within OOTP2006...but myabe by 2007 or 2008 we will have most of the features listed. This thing will be kicking some serious butt then!

I asked a question on the General Discussion Board about the direction of OOTP.....this is pretty much why. I'd like to have some idea of when many of the things on this list (especially the "ghost players" in the minors) and improvements in the PBP will be coming. If it is going to be a year from now, then I won't keep trying to start any historical leagues with 2006- I'll stick with 6.51.

Assos · 07-26-2006, 04:37 PM

I agree with you Highlander on the fact the ficticious players rob us,the historical players of the value that we enjoy. I hve been pleased with the set up of '06 but I do miss those ghost players and the normal historicial minor league setup.

StyxNCa · 07-26-2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

8- Historical leagues either need ghost players back in so we can have minor leagues or some other way to keep fictional players out. They (fictional players) are just way to intrusive upon the leagues and not having minors leagues at all really stunts the way some users play. This, like most other requests should be an option for those who like the current system.

The ability not to have any fictitious players is already there. If you don't create minor leagues, than all players are put onto a reserve roster and no fake players are created. You can have up to 200 players on the reserve roster. Of course, players on the major league roster are not on the reserve roster, and, of course, you can move players between the reserve and active roster..

Highlander · 07-26-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

The ability not to have any fictitious players is already there. If you don't create minor leagues, than all players are put onto a reserve roster and no fake players are created. You can have up to 200 players on the reserve roster. Of course, players on the major league roster are not on the reserve roster, and, of course, you can move players between the reserve and active roster..

I think most of us know that.....we want a minor league system in historical leagues, not a "reserve list". I really enjoy watching the prospects move up (and down) my minor league system, checking their stats in minor league games, etc. As it is now, I can't do that without fictional players being there too.

07-13-2006, 03:42 AM	#5
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,744	In-game, solo play fun of historical play Shaun Sullivan and Markus have always complimented each other since they both started as independent developers of baseball text sim games. I have always supported both, just as many OOTPers. PureSim 2007 has clearly surpassed OOTP 2006 in dramatic fashion for fun, ease of interface and solo play and here are the specifics on what I believe is essential for OOTP to keep my satisfaction: 1. Study the sheer beauty of the solo play game screen in PureSim. It is very easy to set up your customized stadium, drag and point where you want the fielder and runner boxes to display. The roster cards show both teams' lineups in one screen view while playing. You know who is coming up to bat, you know the pitch count, the righty/lefty of the pitcher, the catcher arm rating, the season stats -- all in the in-game screen view without having to click, toggle or maneuver. 2. You can truly watch the game. The in-ball flight is wonderful. It is easy to customize to any stadium photo, again by simple dragging and clicking where this should appear. No x-y coordinates like OOTP requires. 3. Calling plays is one click and very, very simple (L to jump to lineups; H for hit and run; 2 to steal second base; T to pitch out; P to pitch around). It is so simple; no clickfest; very well-designed. 4. Fonts, text, play by play are all very visible, visually attractive, very easy on the eyes of old-time historical simmers like myself. 5. The play by play text is very valuable. Puresim displays the season stats and that day's game stats for the batter inside the play by play text. It's wonderful. 6. You can actually see the entire play in the play-by-play text window. This is a serious oversight in the current design of OOTP 2006 in my opinion. 7. The current screens to see an OOTP game are a mess. Neither one of the views has the necessary info to truly enjoy solo play of a historical sim. With all of the outstanding stats that OOTP now accumulates -- and what really puts you ahead of any competitor -- how come I can't get the most relevant data in my solo play views? For example, when I'm in the playoffs, I could care less about records in grass, turf, home, away, when it's raining. I just want to know what is that player's season stats when I'm facing him in the playoffs. It's not there, amid all the clutter, stats and info. 8. OOTP 2006 has made a great breakthrough with all the filters and views and bookmarks. How come they cannot apply to the game view window? Why can't I set filters or views to see in-game lineups customized to a season stat view, a today's game stat view, a pitcher matchup view. You're collecting all these stats; why can't you make them simple to see in the solo play view? 9. The ability to see both team lineups, call plays with one click, have essential in-game data in one view for pitch count and catcher arm rating are not feature requests for OOTP 2007. They are essential patch requests for OOTP 2006. Without them, PureSim 2007 is where I'll be. 10. PureSim already has the ability to compare career sim stats with real Lahman database career stats. Look at how elegant the player card data is displayed in PureSim. It tracks and shows you exactly what Lahman has imported for every year in the "real career stats" vs. the "simmed career stats." My comparison to PureSim and OOTP is meant to be complimentary. Again, I support both developers. Both of you have already surpassed Strat-O-Matic as the gold standard. You've passed Diamond Mind. But neither one of you has hit the home run that will truly satisfy our quest for today's standard. Markus is winning overwhelmingly for his attempted depth of Rule 5, waivers, and all the complicated interaction of modern-day baseball, the depth of stats and info. Shaun is winning hands' down for faithfulfulness to historical play -- absolutely no fictional players, a minors with real players, extremely easy interface, very well-designed solo play, and, to me, the biggest deal of all -- in-game ball flight with sounds that are relevant and rewarding. How am I personally dividing my time right now? I'm closely watching OOTP 2006 for patches and simming almost as a public beta tester waiting for the bugs to go away. I really want to like OOTP because of its depth, complexities and stats. But I'm playing my games, having a blast and enjoying historical sims in PureSim as my "real" game on the desktop right now. This is the first time, in all versions, where I'm leaning toward PureSim as my favorite all around for solo play. Last edited by rasnell; 07-13-2006 at 03:54 AM.

07-13-2006, 01:21 PM	#7
Tiger Fan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 9,659	rwd59 - I will add your request to my master list. rasnell and Gil Thorp Both of you have raised very good points but I think they more belong in general discussion feature requests rather than in a historical league play enhancement thread. The points are valid but they affect everyone who plays out their games rather than just historical simmers. For that reason I am not going to add them to the historical list but I urge you post them in the general discussion area. In this thread I think our focus should be much more on the things that can help us improve the ease of use and statisical accuracy of long term historical simming. For example - ball flight animation in game affects all types of leagues and belongs in a general discussion feature request thread. Having the proper stadiums easily available when they really made their debut strictly affects historical simmers and belongs here. Again both of you make some good points. I just want to see if we can keep this thread a little more narrow in it's focus. thanks __________________ Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles Columnist- The Figment Sporting Journal MY FIGMENT LEAGUE BROOKLYN KINGS DYNASTY PAST DYNASTYS My History of Hockey Replay Tiger Fan's Sporting News : the mid 1940's Tiger Fan's All Sport Replay: The 1920s History of Sports 1901-15 Historical Tutorial and Feedback League My first fictional attempt The HOB4: The last of my series of history of baseball replays that go back to OOTP2 and the old message board. Last edited by Tiger Fan; 07-13-2006 at 01:24 PM.

07-13-2006, 02:06 PM	#9
Swimmer Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Castle Rock, Colorado Posts: 165	How about the ability to add and/or rename the levels of minor league. D Classification Ball used to be a huge part of the American psyche. It would be nice if we could add classifications, or at least rename the default classifications to match the levels of the year that we are simming. __________________ People ask me what I do in the winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. --Rogers Hornsby

07-14-2006, 02:44 PM	#13
Swimmer Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Castle Rock, Colorado Posts: 165	Fix problems with the Financial Coefficient or make the negotiating AI able to handle small contracts. The Financial Coefficient is fine for single year re-creations. But it breaks down when you progress through time and want to change the coefficient. The problem is that it scales current contracts as well as all of the other financial info in the game. In other words, if Joe Average receives a contract worth 10,000 per year this year, and next year you change the coefficient from .1 to .2, then Joe's contract scales up to 20,000 per year. This is silly. Once Joe agrees to a 10,000 per year contract, it should stay at 10,000 through its term. You would think that you could realistically get around this by altering the salary curve numbers in the league setup, but this screws up the negotiating AI when you enter small numbers. When you have nineteenth century style numbers of around $250 minimum, $5,000 superstar, then everybody winds up signing for the league minimum. My theory is that this happens because the "gaps" between the different levels (superstar, star, average, etc.) are smaller than some minimum negotiating increment coded into the AI, so the AI doesn't think that it can get what it wants no matter what, leading it to settle for the minimum salary. I could be wrong about the cause, but I played a league from 1871 until 1915, nudging up the salary curve, and I didn't see one single player sign for over the league minimum until 1905, and even by 1915 about 95% of the league was at minimum. __________________ People ask me what I do in the winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. --Rogers Hornsby

07-13-2006, 01:39 AM	#1
Tiger Fan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 9,659	Collection of Requests to make Historical Replaying better This is a consolidation of all of the ideas in the thread Marc posted requesting suggestions for Historical play enhancements. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126963 I tried to break it down by categories although certainly many items could qualify for more than one category. I am not offering my own comments on any of the suggestions here. I simply want to catalogue them in a fairly easy to follow list. If you wish to add something not listed below to this thread feel free but please do not repeat things already mentioned. Ideally we can keep this thread as clutter-free as possible and we can debate the merits of each request elsewhere. I will also make sure this list gets brought to the attention of Markus and Marc and I will plead with them to get anything feasible included in a patch. However, it is my belief that many of these requests are more future version goals than something that can be added quickly in a patch. Here they are. Listed in no particular order. For the most part I am just copying and pasting so the comments you read are not from me. GAME SETUP 1- the ability to have more than two subleagues in a given minor league level 2- The ability to add or delete a league or subleague at any time in your career. Perhaps also an option to allow a league to go dormant for several years and retain it's history when it is restarted. 3- A database that will automatically add real life minor league affiliates for any given year for those choosing to use minors. 4- Built-in or better support for Lahman or other databases. Ideally if a legal solution can be found have them ship with the game to eliminate the need for novice users to have to figure out how to search for the master.csv 5- More varied playoff options. In particular a request for what is known as the Shaughnessy playoff format. For those who have not heard of it the format is essentially a four-team playoff where in the first round, the 1st-place and 3rd-place teams played each other, as did the 2nd-place and 4th-place teams. The winners of those series advanced to the second (final) round to determine the league champion. This playoff format is recognizable as the "Shaughnessy playoffs" since it was developed in 1932 by International League executive Frank Shaughnessy. 6- Allow a Rule V Draft when playing with no minors. Or, said a different way, allow a Rule V Draft from the reserve roster. 7- Let the game draw player photos from the data/photos folder rather than the saved_games/example.lg/news/html/images folder. This would save a ton of time when doing more than one historical replay. 8- Historical leagues either need ghost players back in so we can have minor leagues or some other way to keep fictional players out. They (fictional players) are just way to intrusive upon the leagues and not having minors leagues at all really stunts the way some users play. This, like most other requests should be an option for those who like the current system. 9-Better ratings based on missing data in the standard Lahman database. I like the 3rd party DB's which can help this, but most of the time I dont want two of the same player in the league (Ruth, Wood, etc...) or I dont want Negro League players in the league, or I dont want different debut years, and going through and deleting them from the 3rd party DB's can be a pain in the butt. A more accurate import from the standard Lahman would help that 10- The ability to import individual teams from the Lahman and other databases. (PureSim already has this one. It's very useful.) 11-Instead of having the current option of Adjust hitters with less than X at-bats (in THE IMPORTED SEASON), make it an option that is career based, ie: Adjust Hitters with less than X AB in their CAREER 12- allow players who can hit and pitch to be able to do so automatically. Babe Ruth, Joe Wood, etc. 13- The ability to start a historical league prior to 1901. Sans direct support for that, at least allow me to start a nineteenth century league with a Lahman imported initial draft, rather than having to do the "start a year early" workaround. 14- An option to Delete career statistics - important for those people who want to start a historical league without the lahman-imported career records predating their league 15- Ability to designate which year's rookies import in amatuer drafts. This is important because of the pre-season only limitation on when you can alter the league structure. If you add a team in the pre-season, and then want it to participate in a February/March amateur draft before the season starts, the game will import next year's rookies, causing them to debut a year early. This situation could also be addressed by loosening the rules on when you can edit the league structure 16- The ability to import players age based upon the year imported, rather than having the data compared to the player's birth year relative to the start date of the league. 17- Ability to edit league structure before preseason so we can add the expansion team and have it import the players onto the right team and not into FA 18- Ability to edit career stats in game setup, or in other words while still able to make a quickstart. (I don't want to change simmed results, just want to combine with request "for an Alltime League and be able to modify the year #'s.) 19- Ability to input Stats to get Ratings (as somebody else suggested as well). Extremely helpful for making a custom historical league...but helpful in general as well. 20-Ability to edit all league (& hopefully in future team) records, preferably with a simple txt or csv file as well as in-game. HISTORICAL PROGRESSION 1- Expansion. Perhaps an option where the user can select for the game to automatically add the expansion teams and populate them with players in the proper seasons they debut or allow the user to expand when he chooses. Going hand in hand with this would be options on how to run the expansion draft. How many players can each established team protect? Do they get to pullback a player when one is lost? Is there a maximum that can be taken from any one team? etc. 2 - "era" settings that change automatically over time, i.e. bullpen usage, starting pitcher endurance, closer usage, stealing and bunting frequency 3- The ability to automatically update stadiums with changed dimensions and park effects 4- Add historical manager/GM models for the AI to emulate tendencies in the way real teams were managed or run. 5- An option to either manually change or automatically have the league financial structure evolve through the years. ADD-ONS 1- Historical quickstarts, say one per decade, that come with the game or as a gamer created add-on. 2- Add a Baseball Timeline feature that incorporates actual baseball and real-world historical news to replays HISTORICAL BALLPARKS AND WEATHER In addition to the one listed in game setup to have the new ballparks automatically enter the game in the real life season they debuted there were several other park related requests. 1-The ballpark factors of historic stadiums could be improved, especially in earlier stadiums here the game is kinda cookie-cutter in its approach even though the dimensions are known 2- Stadium capacity: 42,000. That default number needs to change. You can edit it now but I wish it were more "intelligent". Every stadium now seats 42,000 or something. Of course, this isn't THAT big a deal since you can control the "average" attendence anyway. BUT, I've simmed the early 1900's and when teams make the World Series you often get 42,000 fans watching the game in a stadium that could not hold that many even with standing room only 3-what about reading and importing ballpark info from a txt/csv file? I think we can create that file so that each year, the game can read that file and assign the appropriate ballpark, dimensions, seats, and park factors to the relevant team. We can work out the details if you are interested. 4- Weather would be nice. I will go one step beyond OOTP6.5 and suggest rainouts rather than just rain delays be incorporated into the game. STATS, AWARDS AND LEAGUE HISTORY 1- Incorporate player-chosen awards/ASG selections. Better yet, add an option to select "All-League" players for those who choose not to have an ASG. 2-Simulate the voting by writers/HOF committee members on the HOF as well as the above areas, with the player being able to vote/override as he sees fit. News articles annoucing the voting results. Also consider having a waiting period before HOF induction rather than have the players immediately eligible. Along this lines an option to turn the HOF on whenever you choose. 3-An option to have historically accurate past records and league leaderboards. If I import in 1983 I want to see the league records up to that point (even if there was a cutoff of say 1901) 4-Probably impossible without some kind of sponser from baseballreference or a like site, but how about a stat split called "in real life". That way, we can immediately compare a players ootp career with his in real life. His career totals vs in real life, what they did in a given year vs what the did in real life that year, etc. 5- OOTP continues to improve the stats and history related to individual players, which is great. What I hope to begin seeing is more emphasis on team history -- a better comparison of team results over a period of years so that dynasties and rivalries can arise and be noted. 6- Tracking of manager and coach career stats 7- Postseason playoff leaderboards 8- Descriptions and histories of stadiums, together with the ability to build new stadiums or expand old ones, would also be nice. TRANSACTIONS 1- Allow pure cash sales of players, especially from unaffiliated minor league teams to major league teams. In conjunction with (1), improve financial AI so that financially distressed teams will be forced to sell off their players (or at least try to dump expensive contracts). 2- For teams with no minors, make it possible to fix the size of the reserve roster or disable reserve rosters entirely 3- Unaffiliated minors that work a little better. They shouldn't be able to sign major league stars. 4-Shop player feature with an option to turn it on or off for those who do not like it IN GAME MANAGER OPTIONS 1- I just want more specific on-field options. Roided up sluggers only need to know how to swing away, but us deadball fans should be able to call for delayed double steals, baltimore chops & other odd plays the 1890s Orioles pulled off. Just basic control of the on-field style of the older eras. Doesn't seem like any sim really has that __________________ Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles Columnist- The Figment Sporting Journal MY FIGMENT LEAGUE BROOKLYN KINGS DYNASTY PAST DYNASTYS My History of Hockey Replay Tiger Fan's Sporting News : the mid 1940's Tiger Fan's All Sport Replay: The 1920s History of Sports 1901-15 Historical Tutorial and Feedback League My first fictional attempt The HOB4: The last of my series of history of baseball replays that go back to OOTP2 and the old message board.

07-13-2006, 02:01 AM	#2
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 793	How about an option to base a players rookie import ratings on his rookie year plus x number of years. Then I could choose say to import players based on the import year plus the next 2 years of their career per se.

07-13-2006, 02:32 AM	#4
Claymore All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 764	You are the man Tiger Fan!!!

07-14-2006, 04:36 PM	#14
BravesSince66 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 238	Excellent summary Tiger Fan! I realize all of this probably won't happen within OOTP2006...but myabe by 2007 or 2008 we will have most of the features listed. This thing will be kicking some serious butt then!

07-14-2006, 05:07 PM	#15
Wheele8 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 149	Excellent & very complete list. Thank you for compiling this here. My #1 would be the ability to import single teams. #1b would be the ability to generate complete minor league systems with no fictional lplayers, or rather just " ghost" fictional players.

07-26-2006, 04:37 PM	#18
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,772	I agree with you Highlander on the fact the ficticious players rob us,the historical players of the value that we enjoy. I hve been pleased with the set up of '06 but I do miss those ghost players and the normal historicial minor league setup.