Goalie Usage (Again)

[Tom88]

Unfortunately, this spoils the fun of the game. In the historical game, for example, Hasek has a much worse career because he plays too few matches. Instead of skills, "Heat Level - hot or cold" is more important. Which is stupid.

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

I started a new season and the AI is up to its old tricks again. I can't change the goalie when I "play" the game so I'm stuck with who the AI picks. So far the #1 has 10 starts with the #2 having 7. While it's nice the #1 has more starts, it would be really nice if he had a lot more.

I'd trade the #2 guy and call up a goalie from the AHL but if the "logic" is the same as it was in past versions the AI will continue to start the #2 waaaay more often than any rationally thinking person with even a room temperature IQ ever would no matter how bad he is, so my team will continue to lose games it should win.

The goalie usage has been broke for a long time across many versions. I don't know what to do anymore.

Have you used the goalie starts settings? Have you set the goalies to play particular games?

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Adam B

Have you used the goalie starts settings? Have you set the goalies to play particular games?

I'm the GM, I can't.

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

I'm the GM, I can't.

Yes you can.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Adam B

Yes you can.

Please inform.

[Tiger Fan]

I play GM only and didn’t think the goalie starts settings can be changed. At least they don’t seem to be able to be changed in any of my leagues.

[Bluenoser]

Same here, playing GM only. I am able to check the box that says "use goalie start settings", but unable to adjust any settings or check the box to prevent the AI from changing the choices.

Something not right there.

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Please inform.

Mea Cupla.

I was thinking of something else.

[JeffR]

I'm going to make an adjustment to the goalie start AI in the update that'll strengthen the code that prevents over-use of a lower-talent goalie over the presumed starter. We made a significant change to it last year (and got feedback then that it had fixed the problem), but it may not have been quite enough.

Originally Posted by ety516

@JeffR have you considered that the AI might have the "meaning" of "backup" and "starting" mixed up for the purpose of building lines? It seems to assign the correct role when setting up contracts, but then tends to field the goalies as if their roles were the exact opposite.

Yes. We've checked more than once. It's not. Regarding "tends to field the goalies as if their roles were the exact opposite", please see the attached files. One the goalie career GP leaders from a test 1909-2022 game, the other is the real NHL leaders. Does that look like the game is consistently choosing the wrong starter?

[VictorAMR]

Hi Jeff, I noticed some of the goalies in the test game played ~300 more games than in real life. Do their carreers span longer? I'm curious about Brodeur, his 1266 games look already a lot and in the game he played almost 1600 games

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by JeffR

I'm going to make an adjustment to the goalie start AI in the update that'll strengthen the code that prevents over-use of a lower-talent goalie over the presumed starter. We made a significant change to it last year (and got feedback then that it had fixed the problem), but it may not have been quite enough.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by VictorAMR

Hi Jeff, I noticed some of the goalies in the test game played ~300 more games than in real life. Do their carreers span longer? I'm curious about Brodeur, his 1266 games look already a lot and in the game he played almost 1600 games

Yeah, I saw that too, I think at least part of it is the new starting age of 16 is resulting in goalies that are developing too early. Some of the Aging ratings were likely a little high, too. Going to do some work on that.

[Curve Ball Dave]

My goalie #2 is the luckiest player in the league. We score 5+ goals it seems whenever he starts, while we're lucky to get 3 when goalie #1 starts. Despite his lousy stats goalie #2 has a great W/L record.

I wish we had a stat that shows how many goals his own team scores whenever a goalie starts, much like the run support stat in baseball.

[Curve Ball Dave]

I've simmed three months since the latest patch came out.

My #2 goalie has had the majority of the starts in those three months and it's not even close.

It's no use

[JeffR]

Please upload the save so we can have a look at what exactly is happening there.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Please upload the save so we can have a look at what exactly is happening there.

I have a month left in the season, I don't want to do anything to disrupt that, I'll see how it plays out.

As far as I can tell the AI looks at W/L to determine which goalie is "hot". So goalie #2 "wins" games by scores of 8-6 and 5-4 so he's 2-0 despite having a terrible save percentage and goals allowed. Meanwhile goalie #1 (when he actually plays) loses 2-1 in OT and the team is shut out 1-0. He's 0-2 despite stellar stats. To the AI goalie #2 is the "hot" goalie because hey, he's won two in a row. Never mind that the team won in spite of him while goalie #1 is considered "cold".

Unless I'm wrong and there are other criteria the AI looks at. I don't know, as I said it's as if there's no evaluation at all.

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

I have a month left in the season, I don't want to do anything to disrupt that, I'll see how it plays out.

Uploading the save will not do that at all. Just make a copy of it either in game or do it outside, making a copy to like desktop and upload that.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Adam B

Uploading the save will not do that at all. Just make a copy of it either in game or do it outside, making a copy to like desktop and upload that.

It won't, but it means I'd have duplicate leagues which I really didn't want.

I finished the final month plus three games in April. Goalie #1 started all but two games so I can't complain. We lost games with him at the net but I've said it before, if I'm going to lose I'm going to lose with my best. We're the #5 seed in the playoffs. We'll see if the AI keeps playing him like it should.

[Curve Ball Dave]

I can't complain.

We made to the Conference Finals and lost 4 games to 2, but my #1 goalie started every post season game as he should and was outstanding throughout.

[Curve Ball Dave]

I can say the problem is fixed. At the end of the first month of a new season my #1 started 14/16 games.