OOTP 25 Has Glaring Aesthetic Issues

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Yeah, agreed. Have a feeling we're the silent majority on this.

But I am pleased that there is at least a partial remedy for those who are bugged by the revised graphics. Options and flexibility are good.

[GCheekEnergy]

Hi everyone! OOTP 24 was my first experience with the game, and this is my first post here. Nice to meet you all

I think a lot of us that like these types of games really enjoy seeing things like these bars line up perfectly. Speaking from my own POV and that of my friend who likes this game, we are a bit on the perfectionist side. I'm trying to break out of being fixated on stuff like this, so I am open to a bit of variation so I can teach my mind to adapt. So, I think I am firmly on the side of not changing it. But I recognize the desire to have this "cleaned up" a bit. I don't think there is a right answer to this topic. Feedback on preferences like this is important, even if the issue is cosmetic. It's impossible to know whether there is popular sediment unless it's discussed.

Cheers

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Being a newbie here your posts are on the same spectrum as people ripping the game you are just in the other side.

Why is saying you like the look not enough for you?

You always have to antagonize the other side in the discussion. You are just over the top. I mean you are bringing up how many friends you have and how they areall in agreement then you name drop the crestorike he is your bff and you guys go out to lunch.

And this is in nearly everyone of your posts. Constantly name dropping creators or devs or staffs. You fully know and are aware it is going to get a rise out if the other side but it doesn't stop you from doing it.

Being new I've seen you basically pop up in any thread that is remotely close to being considered critical of the game and you have these same over the top posts name dropping employees. Then it starts off the other side.

That is super passive aggressive. It looks to be done on purpose. And the outcome is certainly known it's fanning the flames of the war.

Why is just making your statement I disagree and I love the aesthetics not enough.

Maybe you aren't aware of what you are doing but it is certainly antagonizing a lot of people and it's the same as posts that say this sucks then give no reasons.

As a newbie, you should become aware that personal attacks are not welcome here; nor are attempts to psychoanalyze other posters. Save it. You can (and should) disagree and legitimately argue without getting personal.

If you have a legitimate concern about the content of a post, I would raise it with a moderator, who has authority to throttle back the rhetoric and get us all back on track.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Being a newbie here your posts are on the same spectrum as people ripping the game you are just in the other side.

Why is saying you like the look not enough for you?

You always have to antagonize the other side in the discussion. You are just over the top. I mean you are bringing up how many friends you have and how they areall in agreement then you name drop the crestorike he is your bff and you guys go out to lunch.

And this is in nearly everyone of your posts. Constantly name dropping creators or devs or staffs. You fully know and are aware it is going to get a rise out if the other side but it doesn't stop you from doing it.

Being new I've seen you basically pop up in any thread that is remotely close to being considered critical of the game and you have these same over the top posts name dropping employees. Then it starts off the other side.

That is super passive aggressive. It looks to be done on purpose. And the outcome is certainly known it's fanning the flames of the war.

Why is just making your statement I disagree and I love the aesthetics not enough.

Maybe you aren't aware of what you are doing but it is certainly antagonizing a lot of people and it's the same as posts that say this sucks then give no reasons.

Maybe because the original post went into such detail?

Did you happen to notice in the original post that he brought up his friends and how they agreed with him? My comment was a joke (notice the wink?)based on his OP. So yeah, you are right in this instance, ie why would it matter? I didn't see you comment then, so why now?

Years ago we had one user complain about a change in the gui, just one. Markus read it and changed it back.. yes after just one user posted. Many users posted after it was changed back saying they loved the new look. Markus reply? Well it's done now, we can't keep going back and forth. So for ONE user's opinion the game changed for everyone. From that instance my advice to any user is to voice your opinion whether for or against anything being discussed.

Your post is insulting, there is nothing passive aggressive in my words. If you read them that way that is on you.

[TheChief]

Originally Posted by Pelican

As a newbie, you should become aware that personal attacks are not welcome here; nor are attempts to psychoanalyze other posters. Save it. You can (and should) disagree and legitimately argue without getting personal.

If you have a legitimate concern about the content of a post, I would raise it with a moderator, who has authority to throttle back the rhetoric and get us all back on track.

Absolutely not a personal attack it's called an observation. Got to keep it real man.

Very weird behavior from the suppose core fandom that have here for decades. I see a lot of gatekeeping and a lot of passive aggressive attitudes to keep anyone who is new or has a different opinion silenced.

This is like behavior you see on AAA games that sell 10s of millions of copies not some small niche game with a small user base.

People have the right to both criticize and praise a game and any of it's mechanics. Both sides shouldn't go so far as you have side saying it's dumb with no evidence and another side always dropping dev names to make their point.

I mean one guy even has a quote from a dev in his sig file which fell out of style in the 90s. That is weird. And puts newbies on the defensive immediately.

Unless someone is attacking a dev or employee there is no reason to bring them up 90% of the time. The 10% is when they reply to a thread and are quoted or referenced.

But brining them up randomly in numerous posts constantly is weird and unwelcoming behavior.

Maybe the board has a problem with new blood.

It's just a game y'all need to chill

[louisvillec271]

Have been playing the game for years without the bars. If the OP turns off the rating bars he will probably never go back to having them on. What matters is the rating, not the length or color of a bar. Yes they are directly correlated but its just simpler without seeing the ratings displayed as bars.

[84Cubs]

Maybe someone can explain what the BABIP rating is supposed to tell me. I understand that BABIP is Batting Average on Balls in play.

Does a lower BABIP mean the batter relies more on outcomes dictated by opposing defenses and a higher BABIP mean he could place the ball where the defense is not?

I always have read BABIP is used to predict hitter and pitcher regression. Does the rating indicate how likely a batter/pitcher is to regress?

[TheChief]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Maybe because the original post went into such detail?

Did you happen to notice in the original post that he brought up his friends and how they agreed with him? My comment was a joke (notice the wink?)based on his OP. So yeah, you are right in this instance, ie why would it matter? I didn't see you comment then, so why now?

Years ago we had one user complain about a change in the gui, just one. Markus read it and changed it back.. yes after just one user posted. Many users posted after it was changed back saying they loved the new look. Markus reply? Well it's done now, we can't keep going back and forth. So for ONE user's opinion the game changed for everyone. From that instance my advice to any user is to voice your opinion whether for or against anything being discussed.

Your post is insulting, there is nothing passive aggressive in my words. If you read them that way that is on you.

Hey man if you feel insulated then I apologize. But realize many of your posts are also insulting to newbies. Even in your reply you name dropped twice. We don't know the name of every creator dev and employee.

Name dropping them is taken, as oh these guys are pals. They must know extra stuff. You aren't just disagreeing with me but now you are disagreeing with the devs too. My post means more then yours because I know the devs. I've been here longer. I know more. Etc

Maybe you aren't aware it's antagonistic that's why I brought it up. If you got your feelings hurt man I'm sorry.

But I still think you need to look out at how you reply to critics of the game.

Again I didn't mean to insult just bring awareness

[ahunter5]

The reason that so many of the established users mention developers by name is that the developers are in these threads frequently. And for the users that have been here for many years, they most likely do know each other and the developers a bit. So it's no different than mentioning a friend's name in a group text - it's done to let them know that a part of the conversation is directed towards them. Not to 'look cool' to anyone else.

[koohead]

Originally Posted by Zachadee

I

2. De-homogenize the ratings colors
I typically play on 20-80 ratings. There is a huge difference between a guy being a 60 in a given rating and a 65, these should not be the same color. Similarly, 70 is incredibly different than 80+. These ratings being the same colors goes against the intuitive interpretation of standard deviations. In particular, new players are prone to falling for the aesthetic of a player as opposed to the meaning of their ratings in numbers and this will only accentuate that learning curve. It also makes the indicator that a player has 5 more to gain in a given rating much more difficult to see and conceptualize.

The colors chosen are also far too bright, in particular the 70+ blue. I would understand a blue that deep for a truly special 80+ tool but the lack of gradients makes the differences between various rating levels jarring.

This can be (somewhat) easily customized because colors/shades/brightness are very subjective and whatever the devs deliver out of the box won't make 100% of us happy. Assuming things stay the same as they have been for 20+ versions, the bars are part of the skin files that can be customized to whatever you want. You will see 20 different rating_bar_* files in the appropriate skins folder. Takes a bit of playing around depending on the ratings scale you use but you can change the colors to something more to your liking as well as make them drastically different.

[Zachadee]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

Point 2 doesn't make sense since blue was always 68-80.
So no matter how far back in OOTP all players rated 68 appear as blue. Next colour is 53-67 I think

I was referring to the ratings bars, not the Overall/Potential culminating player rating. I tend to play with that turned off anyway personally.

[PocketsAintFull]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Yeah, agreed. Have a feeling we're the silent majority on this.

But I am pleased that there is at least a partial remedy for those who are bugged by the revised graphics. Options and flexibility are good.

I support this balanced and sensible answer

I do quite like the UI, personally.

[Zachadee]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Your not alone. Most that are satisfied or like something tend to not post. Those that don't like something are more likely to post.

The indents do make sense as those are subcategories, for lack of a better term, to ratings they are listed under. To not indent them would be more confusing IMHO.


They are not an eyesore, and I have many friends that agree with me. Coloring, spacing, all look great.

Don't change a thing Markus, you're doing fine.

Aesthetics will always be subjective, so of course there will be differing opinions on the matter such as yours opposed to mine.

If anything, I believe that Avoid Ks and BABIP takes up too much space on the player page, they should be half the size to not take up more screen space relative to their value to a player's value/build. The indent would be less of an issue if it weren't simply taking up so much space (especially on the ratings page where you see platoon splits).

I'm also not sure why in the world such a spat started over this comment LOL. If you enjoy how it looks, more power to you. I wish I could say the same.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Hey man if you feel insulated then I apologize. But realize many of your posts are also insulting to newbies. Even in your reply you name dropped twice. We don't know the name of every creator dev and employee.

Name dropping them is taken, as oh these guys are pals. They must know extra stuff. You aren't just disagreeing with me but now you are disagreeing with the devs too. My post means more then yours because I know the devs. I've been here longer. I know more. Etc

Maybe you aren't aware it's antagonistic that's why I brought it up. If you got your feelings hurt man I'm sorry.

But I still think you need to look out at how you reply to critics of the game.

Again I didn't mean to insult just bring awareness

You really spend too much time reading between the lines IMHO. Reading meaning into words that aren't there. It's a message board and like every message board there are only written words. There are no facial expressions or physical cues to go off of. What could be discussed face to face in 5 minutes and be done with can't be done here without writing a book. In the end how you read posts is how you read posts.

If one has been around enough and read enough of developer's posts to have
an idea of a reason, decision, etc. they made in the past using a name is simply sharing that knowledge. I have no idea where you get the idea it is done to say "my buddy Joe Developer"? If I had typed "the developer" would that make it better? That is a thought process I've never seen on any board I've been a part of. If that's the way you think, that's the way you think. You're not going to change which is of no concern to me, it's not affecting my life in any way.

I recently got involved in a new game and joined the forums. Long time users
drop developer names all of the time. I find it informative, not a "I'm better than you" type thing. Evidently we see it very differently, and in my mind that's ok too.

Your not trying to insult but make me self aware? In your mind I guess you think you're being helpful. I'm guessing we would disagree on how that sounds. Maybe that's on me and how I read it? And that's cool too, there is no tone of voice or physical cues to go off of.

The best advice I can give you, you already received. If you see a post you think is out of line report it. There's also an ignore feature if you feel the need, for any user's posts you don't want to read.

[Zachadee]

Originally Posted by louisvillec271

Have been playing the game for years without the bars. If the OP turns off the rating bars he will probably never go back to having them on. What matters is the rating, not the length or color of a bar. Yes they are directly correlated but its just simpler without seeing the ratings displayed as bars.

I actually didn't know this existed. Strange the things you don't know even after 6+ years of playing this game. I will likely be doing this for 25, thank you

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Zachadee

Aesthetics will always be subjective, so of course there will be differing opinions on the matter such as yours opposed to mine.

If anything, I believe that Avoid Ks and BABIP takes up too much space on the player page, they should be half the size to not take up more screen space relative to their value to a player's value/build. The indent would be less of an issue if it weren't simply taking up so much space (especially on the ratings page where you see platoon splits).

I'm also not sure why in the world such a spat started over this comment LOL. If you enjoy how it looks, more power to you. I wish I could say the same.

I agree with the bold. And yeah, to anybody that is enjoying any part of the game, as it is, I would also say "more power to you".

[TheChief]

Originally Posted by Zachadee

I actually didn't know this existed. Strange the things you don't know even after 6+ years of playing this game. I will likely be doing this for 25, thank you

Yes I will be removing the bars. It's too arcadey for me. I feel like I'm selecting a fighter in some 16 bit era video game or retro game.

I do wish we could pick the color scheme of the numbers. It's a strange scheme.

[koohead]

Originally Posted by TheChief

I do wish we could pick the color scheme of the numbers. It's a strange scheme.

I have yet to figure out how to change the number colors. My guess is it's in one of the hundreds of css files. But changing the bars does help tone it down enough. Making them darker or even adding a wood-grain texture on top of the existing colors makes them less eye piercing.

[kq76]

For those who don't like the color scheme of the rating bars (I don't care for them in the classic or light skin, but I do like them in the dark skin), try changing it. The files are rating_bar*.png in ...\data\templates\images. I haven't tried it myself (I'd make the final colour a magenta, but otherwise I like the truncated rainbow scheme) and you might have to learn how to skin to do it (just swapping the files for new ones probably won't work), but if it bothers you that much it might be worth it to you.

I explained how to make a skin a couple years back here.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Sweed

In the end how you read posts is how you read posts.

That doesn't fly.

Speaking as someone who has a lifetime of experience with people misinterpreting the tone and intent of my written communications, words matter. It's the responsibility of the writer to properly convey tone and intent. If the reader is misinterpreting your intent, the problem is with the writer.