OOTP 25 Has Glaring Aesthetic Issues

[Zachadee]

I come in peace, I'm not a hater. I've been playing OOTP since OOTP 19 and honestly, with all the singleplayer changes this looks to be the most promising OOTP yet.

There is something I cannot ignore. These changes to the primary ratings bars are hideous. Just downright ugly. Many of my friends believe similarly. These are my qualms and my personal ideas to alleviate them.

1. Remove the indents for BABIP/Avoid Ks and PBABIP/HRs Allowed
While the ratings bars being reorganized is something I personally dislike, that's something that can very easily be overcome. However, the indentation of bars below other bars is very confusing and gives them far more screen real estate than they are worth.

In particular, I would suggest removing the display of contact being displayed all together and keeping the 5 bar display system instead with BABIP/Gap Power/Power/Eye/Avoid Ks. Avoid Ks within OOTP 22-24 in particular was practically worthless thanks to Contact being displayed, but would now have proper meaning as contribution to contact with BABIP being displayed instead of overall Contact.

2. De-homogenize the ratings colors
I typically play on 20-80 ratings. There is a huge difference between a guy being a 60 in a given rating and a 65, these should not be the same color. Similarly, 70 is incredibly different than 80+. These ratings being the same colors goes against the intuitive interpretation of standard deviations. In particular, new players are prone to falling for the aesthetic of a player as opposed to the meaning of their ratings in numbers and this will only accentuate that learning curve. It also makes the indicator that a player has 5 more to gain in a given rating much more difficult to see and conceptualize.

The colors chosen are also far too bright, in particular the 70+ blue. I would understand a blue that deep for a truly special 80+ tool but the lack of gradients makes the differences between various rating levels jarring.

3. Allow for minor customization options
I understand that OOTP uses image files to display ratings rather than them being easily able to be changed via hex codes. Asking for customization in that way while I would say would still be reasonable isn't possible with the current system and that's okay.

However, the visuals as they currently are are at a point where I would rather have it be Football Manager style and have ratings simply be displayed as colored numbers with no bars at all. I also believe that if the developers were able to change the order in which ratings were displayed, it shouldn't be difficult for there to be a local option for the player to decide how they want it displayed (I am aware that there is a setting within league files where you can turn off BABIP being displayed, however this means that those in online leagues are locked to the new display). If I want my ratings to be displayed Contact/BABIP/Gap/Power/Eye/Avoid Ks, I should be able to do so locally as it doesn't give me any sort of advantage.

[zjl630]

I also come in peace! LOVE OOTP, but agree with your points. It's almost gotten too colorful and hard to decipher what I'm looking at.

I'm sure I'll get used to it but it will be weird switching between 24 for my online leagues and 25 for solo stuff for now.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Zachadee

I come in peace, I'm not a hater. I've been playing OOTP since OOTP 19 and honestly, with all the singleplayer changes this looks to be the most promising OOTP yet.

There is something I cannot ignore. These changes to the primary ratings bars are hideous. Just downright ugly. Many of my friends believe similarly. These are my qualms and my personal ideas to alleviate them.

1. Remove the indents for BABIP/Avoid Ks and PBABIP/HRs Allowed
While the ratings bars being reorganized is something I personally dislike, that's something that can very easily be overcome. However, the indentation of bars below other bars is very confusing and gives them far more screen real estate than they are worth.

In particular, I would suggest removing the display of contact being displayed all together and keeping the 5 bar display system instead with BABIP/Gap Power/Power/Eye/Avoid Ks. Avoid Ks within OOTP 22-24 in particular was practically worthless thanks to Contact being displayed, but would now have proper meaning as contribution to contact with BABIP being displayed instead of overall Contact.

2. De-homogenize the ratings colors
I typically play on 20-80 ratings. There is a huge difference between a guy being a 60 in a given rating and a 65, these should not be the same color. Similarly, 70 is incredibly different than 80+. These ratings being the same colors goes against the intuitive interpretation of standard deviations. In particular, new players are prone to falling for the aesthetic of a player as opposed to the meaning of their ratings in numbers and this will only accentuate that learning curve. It also makes the indicator that a player has 5 more to gain in a given rating much more difficult to see and conceptualize.

The colors chosen are also far too bright, in particular the 70+ blue. I would understand a blue that deep for a truly special 80+ tool but the lack of gradients makes the differences between various rating levels jarring.

3. Allow for minor customization options
I understand that OOTP uses image files to display ratings rather than them being easily able to be changed via hex codes. Asking for customization in that way while I would say would still be reasonable isn't possible with the current system and that's okay.

However, the visuals as they currently are are at a point where I would rather have it be Football Manager style and have ratings simply be displayed as colored numbers with no bars at all. I also believe that if the developers were able to change the order in which ratings were displayed, it shouldn't be difficult for there to be a local option for the player to decide how they want it displayed (I am aware that there is a setting within league files where you can turn off BABIP being displayed, however this means that those in online leagues are locked to the new display). If I want my ratings to be displayed Contact/BABIP/Gap/Power/Eye/Avoid Ks, I should be able to do so locally as it doesn't give me any sort of advantage.

I agree with all your points!!

The indented ratings drive me crazy, and the colors do not make sense at all. I once wrote a post in detail about this, but I was overrun by far too many loud dissenters. There is a way to turn off bars. it's in the settings.

[TheChief]

Total agreement. The bars feel very 16 bit era of arcade game style. Player Profile needs an overhaul it is kinda a big eye sore.

How do you turn off the bars? I'm unfamiliar with all the settings. I dislike them immensely. They seem very out of place

[ayaghmour2]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Total agreement. The bars feel very 16 bit era of arcade game style. Player Profile needs an overhaul it is kinda a big eye sore.

How do you turn off the bars? I'm unfamiliar with all the settings. I dislike them immensely. They seem very out of place

Here's the setting. Makes it go back to normal

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Total agreement. The bars feel very 16 bit era of arcade game style. Player Profile needs an overhaul it is kinda a big eye sore.

How do you turn off the bars? I'm unfamiliar with all the settings. I dislike them immensely. They seem very out of place

go to your OOTP settings. on the first tab, there's an option for player ratings

[TheChief]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

go to your OOTP settings. on the first tab, there's an option for player ratings

The bars make me feel like I'm picking my fighter in street fighter or mortal Kombat I swear.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

Here's the setting. Makes it go back to normal

That's not what he's asking for. Bars, not BABIP

[ms2002]

Yes, 1000%. The color changes do not make any sense to me. Please revert them back or give the user an option to configure.

Also, the "hide BABIP" setting should be available at the user level. It should not be a league setting. Those ratings are still available regardless of whether they show on the player's page, so there's no competitive advantage concern. It's a matter of user preference.

[OutS|der]

Point 2 doesn't make sense since blue was always 68-80.
So no matter how far back in OOTP all players rated 68 appear as blue. Next colour is 53-67 I think

[Rain King]

You can turn off the Bars in the main Settings, Interface tab.

Player Ratings Bars: "Display Bars" or "Numbers Only"

[ahunter5]

I must be in the minority here. I really like the indents - it makes the meaning of the ratings more clear. I also like the colors that have been used.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by ahunter5

I must be in the minority here. I really like the indents - it makes the meaning of the ratings more clear. I also like the colors that have been used.

Your not alone. Most that are satisfied or like something tend to not post. Those that don't like something are more likely to post.

The indents do make sense as those are subcategories, for lack of a better term, to ratings they are listed under. To not indent them would be more confusing IMHO.


They are not an eyesore, and I have many friends that agree with me. Coloring, spacing, all look great.

Don't change a thing Markus, you're doing fine.

[Haiku]

The problem with the indented BABIP and Avoid K ratings is that they have smaller bar lengths. As a result, the same number, let's say 45, has different bar lengths for the indented ratings compared to the regular ones, which is a bit confusing for the eye. One might wrongly assume when looking at player's profile that one rating is better than another, when in fact they are the same.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Your not alone. Most that are satisfied or like something tend to not post. Those that don't like something are more likely to post.

The indents do make sense as those are subcategories, for lack of a better term, to ratings they are listed under. To not indent them would be more confusing IMHO.


They are not an eyesore, and I have many friends that agree with me. Coloring, spacing, all look great.

Don't change a thing Markus, you're doing fine.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Haiku

The problem with the indented BABIP and Avoid K ratings is that they have smaller bar lengths. As a result, the same number, let's say 45, has different bar lengths for the indented ratings compared to the regular ones, which is a bit confusing for the eye. One might wrongly assume when looking at player's profile that one rating is better than another, when in fact they are the same.

That's not how my brain sees it. My brains sees a bar that is full, half full, etc. and I have numbers that confirm what I am seeing. Maybe it's just my perception but it also appears all bars "center" are in alignment. If you look at the screen shot of Alonso..
Avoid k's is 50/50 and in the center of the bar
babip is 40/40
contact is 45/45

Contact appears to be "one click" away from being centered. BABIP appears to be "one click" behind contact and "two clicks" behind center.

Without the indent babip/avoid k's would appear to be category of it's own and not a sub-skill under contact.

This is a design decision that would work either way. I much prefer what they did compared to the changes being asked for here.

[Canary85]

i'm glad it is an option to hide babip which solves the issue altogether, at least for me. i have no interest in seeing babip.

i do wish the colors were all different though. was an issue in past versions with 55 and 60 being the same.

[ayaghmour2]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

That's not what he's asking for. Bars, not BABIP

Are you sure?

He said:

1. Remove the indents for BABIP/Avoid Ks and PBABIP/HRs Allowed
While the ratings bars being reorganized is something I personally dislike, that's something that can very easily be overcome. However, the indentation of bars below other bars is very confusing and gives them far more screen real estate than they are worth.

In particular, I would suggest removing the display of contact being displayed all together and keeping the 5 bar display system instead with BABIP/Gap Power/Power/Eye/Avoid Ks. Avoid Ks within OOTP 22-24 in particular was practically worthless thanks to Contact being displayed, but would now have proper meaning as contribution to contact with BABIP being displayed instead of overall Contact.

--

That's what I showed? It looks like he wants to remove contact being displayed together and keep the five bar system? I at least helped him with one of what he was looking for...

[TheChief]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Your not alone. Most that are satisfied or like something tend to not post. Those that don't like something are more likely to post.

The indents do make sense as those are subcategories, for lack of a better term, to ratings they are listed under. To not indent them would be more confusing IMHO.


They are not an eyesore, and I have many friends that agree with me. Coloring, spacing, all look great.

Don't change a thing Markus, you're doing fine.

Being a newbie here your posts are on the same spectrum as people ripping the game you are just in the other side.

Why is saying you like the look not enough for you?

You always have to antagonize the other side in the discussion. You are just over the top. I mean you are bringing up how many friends you have and how they are all in agreement then you name drop the creator he is your bff and you guys go out to lunch.

And this is in nearly everyone of your posts. Constantly name dropping creators or devs or staffs. You fully know and are aware it is going to get a rise out if the other side but it doesn't stop you from doing it.

Being new I've seen you basically pop up in any thread that is remotely close to being considered critical of the game and you have these same over the top posts name dropping employees. Then it starts off the other side.

That is super passive aggressive. It looks to be done on purpose. And the outcome is certainly known it's fanning the flames of the war.

Why is just making your statement I disagree and I love the aesthetics not enough.

Maybe you aren't aware of what you are doing but it is certainly antagonizing a lot of people and it's the same as posts that say this sucks then give no reasons.

[jcard]

Originally Posted by Haiku

The problem with the indented BABIP and Avoid K ratings is that they have smaller bar lengths. As a result, the same number, let's say 45, has different bar lengths for the indented ratings compared to the regular ones, which is a bit confusing for the eye. One might wrongly assume when looking at player's profile that one rating is better than another, when in fact they are the same.

Absolutely correct. I was stunned when I saw that in a screenshot. Different patterns, thicknesses, opacities, etc.—at least SOMETHING to distinguish the indented bars, especially as the visible indent becomes less apparent as your eyes compare the endpoints of the different bars. The combination of infographical methodology (bar graphs), uniform formatting of the bars themselves, and unequal 0 value positioning with standardized 100 positioning is not a subjective matter—it is an internally illogical way of representing data. That is unfortunate, because this is an example of where—even for someone such as myself who emphasis function over form—here the aesthetic interferes with the ability to assess and appreciate the underlying structural changes undertaken in this version.