2023-2024 NBA Season Thread

[Amazin69]

Rik Smits played for 13 seasons, never being injured significantly. He did play only 49 games in 1999…but there was a lockout that season, and the Pacers only played 50.

Roy Hibbert had no major injury issues. What cut his career short was that the evolving game suddeny had no use for a player called (no kidding) "The Big Stiff", no matter how good he was at blocking shots, rebounding, and scoring from right under the basket.

It's true that Jeff Ruland had to temporarily retire during the 1986 season. It's also true that 1986 was 37 years ago. (I'm a Mets fan. Trust me, I KNOW how long ago 1986 was.)

Also, I would argue that centers, as a physical type, are perhaps not the best barometer for the possible need to give extra rest to wing players and point guards. But JMO.

[Syd Thrift]

Otis Birdsong, Pistol Pete, Bernard King had the middle part of his career excised by injury (think I mentioned him too), Larry Bird retired pretty early and essentially "load managed" himself with back issues towards the end of it, Grandmama, Allan Houston, Monster Mash, LaPhonso Ellis, Fat Lever fell apart all of the sudden after being a really useful player for the Nuggets for several years... I'm sure I could name more. The fact is that aside from a very small handful of players, guys simply did not play into their mid-30s at all before around 10 years ago and often even star players didn't get to 30. That's different now, in part due to better conditioning but also in part due to quiet "load management" that in recent years has been not quite as quiet.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Also, I would argue that centers, as a physical type, are perhaps not the best barometer for the possible need to give extra rest to wing players and point guards. But JMO.

The top two players all time in games played are both 7'+ centers. Third is Vince Carter, who played at least seven years past his usefulness, then another seven footer. Only one current player is in the top 40 all time (LeBron James at 10th).

[thehef]

Someone was looking for the Pacers' center from the 80's who's career was cut short by a knee injury. Probably thinking of Steve Stipanovich...

And not to be nit-picky on Larry Legend, but he wasn't really load-managing himself. Rather, those last two seasons - of just 60 and 45 games - he was taking the court whenever he could. He probably should have load-managed, but that wasn't in his nature.

As an aside, that 60-games-for-Bird season, 1990-91, the Celtics had infused some young & athletic players into their lineup (including - finally - some frontcourt depth), McHale had re-embraced a lower-usage 6th-man role, and The Chief remained ageless. That team, for the first 35 or so games when all were relatively healthy, was on an all-time win pace... Then... Bird's back, and to a lesser extent, McHale got dinged up. But IIRC, after a lineup-tinkering 4-2 start, that team went on something like a 25-2 tear... Shame it ended the way it did...

Conversely, the following year, Bird missed the last month or so. But the team found a groove, with Reggie Lewis leading the way, and swiped the Atlantic with something like a 15-1 end-of-season run... A swallowed whistle on a Reggie putback in OT of game 4 against the Cavs (in the EC semis) - which was also Larry's return - pretty much ended that season (which officially ended - along with Larry Legend's career - in game 7 in Cleveland).

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by thehef

Someone was looking for the Pacers' center from the 80's who's career was cut short by a knee injury. Probably thinking of Steve Stipanovich...

And not to be nit-picky on Larry Legend, but he wasn't really load-managing himself. Rather, those last two seasons - of just 60 and 45 games - he was taking the court whenever he could. He probably should have load-managed, but that wasn't in his nature.

As an aside, that 60-games-for-Bird season, 1990-91, the Celtics had infused some young & athletic players into their lineup (including - finally - some frontcourt depth), McHale had re-embraced a lower-usage 6th-man role, and The Chief remained ageless. That team, for the first 35 or so games when all were relatively healthy, was on an all-time win pace... Then... Bird's back, and to a lesser extent, McHale got dinged up. But IIRC, after a lineup-tinkering 4-2 start, that team went on something like a 25-2 tear... Shame it ended the way it did...

Conversely, the following year, Bird missed the last month or so. But the team found a groove, with Reggie Lewis leading the way, and swiped the Atlantic with something like a 15-1 end-of-season run... A swallowed whistle on a Reggie putback in OT of game 4 against the Cavs (in the EC semis) - which was also Larry's return - pretty much ended that season (which officially ended - along with Larry Legend's career - in game 7 in Cleveland).

Bird came into the league late due to him not being able to settle into life at Indiana. He took a year away from the game and then enrolled at Indiana State. He stayed until after his senior year and did not post his first NBA game until he was six weeks shy of his 23rd birthday.
He was also notoriously cheap and would not pay someone to do work he thought he could do. So he wrenched his back shoveling crushed rock on his mother's driveway during the 1985 offseason.
He was never the same player after that as he had chronic back problems the rest of his life.
He was done by age 35.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Bird came into the league late due to him not being able to settle into life at Indiana. He took a year away from the game and then enrolled at Indiana State. He stayed until after his senior year and did not post his first NBA game until he was six weeks shy of his 23rd birthday.
He was also notoriously cheap and would not pay someone to do work he thought he could do. So he wrenched his back shoveling crushed rock on his mother's driveway during the 1985 offseason.
He was never the same player after that as he had chronic back problems the rest of his life.
He was done by age 35.

Partially true. He for sure injured his back during the '85 offseason. Although I'm not sure I'd say it was because he was cheap. I'd say he had a strong work ethic & liked doing that sort of thing, and sure, there was a component of him not spending money. But I don't know that Bird not spending lavishly and Bird enjoying doing normal chore-like activities means he was cheap. (IOW, an argument can likely be made that he was in fact cheap - or maybe thrifty is a better word - but I don't think that enjoying doing your own chores is evidence of that.)

What's definitely not true is that Bird wasn't the same player after that 1985 injury. His 1984-1988 five-year run was the peak of his career. That's when he:

- Led his team to 2 titles, 4 straight finals, and all 5 conference finals
- Won all of his MPV's
- Was All-NBA each season
- Had his Top 5 scoring seasons (including his highest, 3rd & 4th highest after the back injury)
- Tied his career-high in games played (82) the season following the back injury
- Was the leader of a team - the 85-86 C's - considered by some (me, for sure ) as the greatest single-season team in history.

True that the back injury suffered in 1985 eventually led to later-career injuries and retirement. But he still had three great seasons immediately after the injury.

Many of us remember the duel he had with Dominique in the 1988 EC Semis. What most don't remember is that epic Game 7 performance marked the end of Larry Legend as we knew him...

The following series (EC finals) against the Pistons, several teammates were severely hobbled, The entire backcourt - DJ, Ainge, and 3rd guard Paxson - was sidelined at times during the series, including missing or barely-able-to-play the last two games; all, ironically, iirc, with back problems). And The Chief missed all but a few minutes of the crucial/elimination game six, which the Celtics narrowly lost, due to badly bruised knee. IOW, the C's were probably just a whisker of health - give 'em a healthy DJ, or Ainge, or Parish for that game 6 - away from forcing a game 7 at The Garden.

Despite his statistically outstanding 87-88 season (perhaps the best of his career), the bone spurs that would require offseason surgery had bothered him off and on that year. They flared up more and more during the playoffs, and got worse during the Detroit series. Between that and having to essentially carry the battered team, he had what was probably the worst shooting series of his career.

Then...
- Six games into the season he had surgery on both heels, and ended up missing the rest of the 88-89 season.
- His 89-90 season was All-star worthy, but he was no longer in the conversation of "Best Player in the A."
- Though still a very effective player when on the court, as previously noted, back injuries forced him to miss more than a third of the team's games over his final two seasons, 90-91 & 91-92.

[Amazin69]

I didn't say that centers as a group were injury-prone. I just meant that of those centers (such as Stipo…good catch) who did suffer injuries, it might have something to do with their specific physical type, and thus not be applicable across the league.

Bird also did all that fancy shooting with messed up fingers on his right hand. (He was playing some spring baseball in college, tried to catch a throw with two hands [proper form, you see] instead of ttrying snatch at it with just the glove. Small problem, his hand got there before the ball did. The fingers never did set properly.)

**************
6 days to training camp, and the Clippers remain Cancer-free. Allegedly, they're now only offering Robert Covington and Marcus Morris, so at least Norman Powell and Terence Mann are safe. We will see if they work out the draft picks or not.

I'm still not sold. If the team ends up being built around 4 old dudes (counting Russ, although I would assume he'd be getting traded rather than try to play with Cancer for a third time) and everything else gets stripped away, we might be needing some of those picks, down the road.

[Cobra Mgr]

Woj says Lillard headed to Milwaukee

[Syd Thrift]

Per HoopsRumors.com, it looks like a 3 team trade (of course) with Phoenix taking on the salary differences. The best thing about this move to me is that Grayson Allen, aka the dirtiest player in the league, moves to the Western Conference where you all can deal with him injuring players on purpose.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Per HoopsRumors.com, it looks like a 3 team trade (of course) with Phoenix taking on the salary differences. The best thing about this move to me is that Grayson Allen, aka the dirtiest player in the league, moves to the Western Conference where you all can deal with him injuring players on purpose.

Yeah, but Nas Little is going to join him there. Not thrilled about a Tar Heel being teammates w/that dookie. It's like Road Runner & Wile E Coyote both getting hired by ACME.

Trade details

[Syd Thrift]

Whatever causes Allen to get chased from the league quicker is fine by me.

[Amazin69]

Clippers set to sign serial dick-shower Josh Primo.

Primo, the former #12 overall pick in 2021 (San Antonio), will have to serve a four-game suspension, and will sign a two-way contract. If he can keep his drawers up in Ontario, he might get a call-up.

(A small part of me is hoping he temporarily reforms, gets called up, and then drops them right at center court one night at CryptoScam Arena. Preferably on national TV.)

[Cobra Mgr]

Jrue to Celtics for Brogdon, Robert Williams, GS '24 1st round pick & C's '29*1st*round*pick

[kq76]

Jrue to Boston. It seems Portland got almost as much for Jrue as for Damian (I don't value Ayton highly). Next up is Brogdon, no way Portland keeps him.

[Syd Thrift]

The true downside here is that the Bulls won't be getting Portland's 1st for a while now...

[Cobra Mgr]

Jimmy Butler @ Heat Media Day.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Jimmy Butler @ Heat Media Day.

He knows this will be his player profile photo for the entire year so he usually trolls the NBA with his media day pranks.

[Amazin69]

Kawhi sez the new rules won't matter, because he wasn't load-managing by choice, he was always injured!

[Cobra Mgr]

Dillon the Villain not wasting time getting settled in Houston.

[Cobra Mgr]

Miles Bridges is a boneheaded thug. Put him behind bars already.