6 new OOTP 9 screens

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by RchW

I believe there is provision for Players who have a death in the family to go on the Restricted list while they are away.

Also I keep reading about suspensions resulting in teams playing short, ie 24/25 on the roster. I don't think that is true.

From Major League Rules 13

Suspended List

A player may be suspended by his club or the league for insubordination, misconduct, or failure to report in playing condition. A player on this lists counts both towards the Reserve List and the Active List limits.

So, any suspended player takes one off the 25/40 limit

[Giants44]

Originally Posted by Giants44

Markus - too much time posting, not enough time coding so we can get the game in our grubby little hands!!!!

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

I agree, somewhat. It's nice to have an update rather than lengthening the extended period of silence.

that and I was 100% kidding

[RchW]

From Major League Rules 13

Suspended List

A player may be suspended by his club or the league for insubordination, misconduct, or failure to report in playing condition. A player on this lists counts both towards the Reserve List and the Active List limits.

So, any suspended player takes one off the 25/40 limit

I should have known better than to challenge the wisdom of this board.

Mea culpa three times, with a maxima thrown in for effect.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by RchW

I should have known better than to challenge the wisdom of this board.

Mea culpa three times, with a maxima thrown in for effect.

I'm just quoting a briefed version of the rules. They could have briefed it down wrong.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by tysok

That argument only works if there's a point in which it will have to "be done right". All of those lists are really unnecessary. Is OOTP ever planning on having players' parents, aunts, uncles, or other relatives die? I would think not... so no need for a bereavment list.

Is OOTP going to start simulating World War II as well? Will we have little wars going on, and have Japanese players decide they no longer will play in the US for political reasons? If that's not going to happen, there's no reason for a military list. And if at some point it does simulate a World War II type occasion, where players will go to the military, it can be handled just as easily by making it a "suspension for military reasons" or a "disabled for military reason".

There's no reason that I can see, that in the future there would be a necessity to REALLY have two or more seperate inactive lists... so what does it really matter if it's technically right or not? It is, after all, a game.

Well for this years version I believe we are only talking about adding, or not, a
separate suspension list since all we are adding to this version is suspensions
AFAIK. So I'm only suggesting that "done right" would be adding one list for suspensions separate from the DL.

Again I don't see this as anything more than dividing the current DL list (90\10) with a new header for the suspended list.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by redsoxford

From Major League Rules 13

Suspended List

A player may be suspended by his club or the league for insubordination, misconduct, or failure to report in playing condition. A player on this lists counts both towards the Reserve List and the Active List limits.

So, any suspended player takes one off the 25/40 limit

Ding Ding Ding...there is our answer. This is what it should be.

[SittingDuck]

Great. Glad we got it.

Consider this: how often during a season do you think you'll have a suspended player? So putting him on a separate list is really no big deal.

I'd hate to have to look at a combo list and try to figure out why each player is there.

It's just a separate pulldown list that you'll access like once in awhile.

[SDtwin]

So......the suspended players shouldn't be taken off the roster then right? They should just be unable to actually play in games?

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by SDtwin

So......the suspended players shouldn't be taken off the roster then right? They should just be unable to actually play in games?

Thats pretty much how it works I think. Of course you could always DFA or release them. Not that the union would be too happy if it happened in real life.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by RchW

I believe there is provision for Players who have a death in the family to go on the Restricted list while they are away.

No, for cases such as that there is the Bereavement List, which was created in 2003. A player placed on the Bereavement List no longer counts against the 25-man roster but still counts against the 40-man. The player can be on the Bereavement List for 3-7 days.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by tysok

That argument only works if there's a point in which it will have to "be done right". All of those lists are really unnecessary.

I would agree all of them probably aren't necessary. But, on the other hand, they are just lists. Why should it be so hard to simply assign a player to the proper list? You call up a roster display of currently inactive players and you are shown them, with some inactive due to injury, others due to suspensions, and so forth. It's not really that complicated.

Originally Posted by tysok

Is OOTP ever planning on having players' parents, aunts, uncles, or other relatives die? I would think not... so no need for a bereavment list.

On the other hand, you can specify an off-the-field injury which, instead of injuring the player, could instead be defined as a death in the family.

Use of the Bereavement List doesn't happen often, but it does come up a few times each season in MLB and for the teams affected it offers an additional roster juggling challenge.

Originally Posted by tysok

Is OOTP going to start simulating World War II as well?

It sure should recreate the effect of WWII on the rosters in a historical league (and other conflicts also had an effect, though smaller).

The Military List is necessary to do the above due to the way the returning players were handled. Not only that, but the Military List provisions have changed over the years as well. It's not the same as just calling a different type of disability.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I would agree all of them probably aren't necessary. But, on the other hand, they are just lists. Why should it be so hard to simply assign a player to the proper list? You call up a roster display of currently inactive players and you are shown them, with some inactive due to injury, others due to suspensions, and so forth. It's not really that complicated.

Why have seperate lists if you can do that? Why not an "inactive list" that just puts him under the appropriate 'list' designation. If he's injured, you choose 15 or 30 day DL, if he's not he's listed as whatever his problem is (bereavement if it ever gets added, military if that's ever added, or suspension... although it seems he shouldn't be "deactivated" for suspension?)
Then there's no reason for a bunch of seperate lists... just one "inactive" list.

It sure should recreate the effect of WWII on the rosters in a historical league (and other conflicts also had an effect, though smaller).

The Military List is necessary to do the above due to the way the returning players were handled. Not only that, but the Military List provisions have changed over the years as well. It's not the same as just calling a different type of disability.

I would agree that it should recreate the effects of the wars in history. But my comment was a sort of sarcastic remark. If the game isn't going to actually simulate a war in the background, have a player possibly die in combat or be gone for 10 years due to war service, or possibly just 1 year... then the need for a military list really wouldn't be necessary.
If the game did have something along these lines, where maybe a chance every 30 years or something might see 10% of your players go to military service (fictional) or even real historical service then it could just have it be a prolonged off field "injury". The requirements have changed, but the end result is still the same... the guy is on an inactive roster and not playing or counting or whatever.

I don't have any problem with seperate lists for everything... but the phrase "do it right the first time" just doesn't make sense to me. It infers that at some later date you would have to completely change the whole thing... which really isn't necessary in any scenario. It can always be fit into the little shell of "inactive".
I would whole heartedly agree that it makes no sense to make things quick and dirty for some pieces. Having trouble coming up with an example at this time... but lets say hits just so I can type something. It makes no sense to just distribute hits to players realistically, when obviously later you'll have to redo the entire system so more hits are given to players with high contact ratings and less hits to low contact ratings... just do that right the first time. But something like this, where inactive is inactive... "doing it right the first time" just isn't a valid argument IMO.

[goof1016]

It seems that everyone here wants some form of inactive list. I'd like to see this as well. If if happens to be combined with the DL then maybe you could have the injured players at the top and the suspended players at the bottom so it is easy to view quickly and call it the inactive list. It would be helpful if this inactive list included both minor leaguers as well as major leaguers and possibly have the ability to send healthy players. The reason I say this is because in real life there are guys that are pitching in extended spring training or working out at the minor league complex that are not currently on a minor league roster.

[PotatoPeeler]

Originally Posted by Giants44

that and I was 100% kidding

Well, then I change my reply to "I completely agree."

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by goof1016

It seems that everyone here wants some form of inactive list. I'd like to see this as well. If if happens to be combined with the DL then maybe you could have the injured players at the top and the suspended players at the bottom so it is easy to view quickly and call it the inactive list. It would be helpful if this inactive list included both minor leaguers as well as major leaguers and possibly have the ability to send healthy players. The reason I say this is because in real life there are guys that are pitching in extended spring training or working out at the minor league complex that are not currently on a minor league roster.

This sounds like a pretty good idea. Overall, I am not keen on having 14 different kinds of lists because it's going to make the game unnecessarily complicated. Yes, it's more realistic. It's also realistic that a GM spends at least 8 hours a day, every day poring over stuff like this. At some point I think you have to sacrifice that much realism.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

This sounds like a pretty good idea. Overall, I am not keen on having 14 different kinds of lists because it's going to make the game unnecessarily complicated. Yes, it's more realistic. It's also realistic that a GM spends at least 8 hours a day, every day poring over stuff like this. At some point I think you have to sacrifice that much realism.

As I said, I think a compromise would be to have 3 or 4 lists, Active, Injured (DL), Suspended, and maybe Military.

[kq76]

This discussion is surreal. I don't think I've ever seen a topic debated so much that meant so little.

If I got one, my vote would probably go to one inactive list that had a column that clearly labeled what the person was on it for (disability, suspension, whatever) and another for how long they had left.

Yeah, yeah. I couldn't help commenting either.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by kq76

This discussion is surreal. I don't think I've ever seen a topic debated so much that meant so little.

You've clearly never watched BBC Parliament for any length of time

I like debates like this, they appeal to my sense of the odd.

If I got one, my vote would probably go to one inactive list that had a column that clearly labeled what the person was on it for (disability, suspension, whatever) and another for how long they had left.

The thing people have a problem with is that in real life, the DL is entirely separate from other lists, so they don't want an unrealistic set up.

Ideally, there would be an option at league creation as to what lists you want to use, and what rules to use for them.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

As I said, I think a compromise would be to have 3 or 4 lists, Active, Injured (DL), Suspended, and maybe Military.

That's approximately 2 or 3 too many IMO.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

That's approximately 2 or 3 too many IMO.

My opinion is that the DL shouldn't be used for suspensions.

Maybe have a DL, but also an "inactive - non-injury" list.

Of course, like I said, ideally we should have the option to include all of the ones posted before, and edit the rules for them.