What's with FA???

originalgamer · 06-09-2004, 03:23 AM

I just finished my first season and I managed to get the Phillies 96 wins before I screwed up with some noobie roster moves and got beat 3-1 in the first round by a .500 Arizona team. Then I made some coaching changes, wich went cool, and entered the FA round. I had my eye on 2 major pitchers, 1 st and 1 mr, who were both great. This is the part I dont understand. I offered what they wanted plus some, and they would mail me and tell me they got a better offer. I would check, and it wasn more than I offered. This went on until for the st I had $12,000,000 on the table and he kept telling me he had a better offer that was for only about $8!! This also happened with the other guy too, even tho I kept upping the ante. I didnt screw up the tech. end cuz my offer showed up. What gives?

holyroller · 06-09-2004, 03:35 AM

How many years were the offers for? The AI looks at the total value of the contract, not the season salary.

originalgamer · 06-09-2004, 03:42 AM

They way its worded it tells me I was going to pay $12,000,000 per season for 3 seasons. That tells me the deal was for 36 mil over 3 years, right? The other deal was worded the same. That may not be verbatum, but that wording was one of the first things I checked. Please tell me this is very unusual, as it really screwed my plans up. If it was just one of those things, ok, but it was too silly for all the time.

holyroller · 06-09-2004, 03:44 AM

So the other deal was eight million for three seasons?

If that is the case, and I admit I will have to defer to Henry or someone else who knows more than I, then it must have been based on a hidden desirability rating of some sort.

originalgamer · 06-09-2004, 03:51 AM

Has anyone else spoke about anything like that ? I didnt check there loyalty, etc. I thought the boatload of cash would do it regardless. Oh, I didnt start that high, just what they asked for plus a little to be safe, but needed them so bad I ended up that high in a desparate attempt that they still turned down. Signed a couple bench guys much cheaper and that went normal.

originalgamer · 06-09-2004, 03:52 AM

There deal was same as mine, 8 mil per season for 3, mine was 12 mil per season for3.

originalgamer · 06-09-2004, 03:58 AM

Sorry for the many posts, but niether signed with his original team either, so......

kq76 · 06-09-2004, 04:45 AM

Yeah, the signings are a little screwy if you ask me. As another example, I'll often see players reject a good offer, saying they want more money, then a week later with no major changes ask and accept an offer by the same team that is significantly less than the rejected offer.

I see your example a lot too. Of course some players will sign for less if the situation is right, but surely it's not as prevalent as it seems in the game. How many of us would really turn down 50% more a year? I suppose IRL it probably most often happens when a player is getting old and is already well enough off, but we're seeing this with superstars in their primes. I understand the argument that it's necessary to keep competitive balance (including players not even willing to listen to half the teams), but I think it's going too far.

holyroller · 06-09-2004, 04:48 AM

I agree kq.

What I am wondering is why this happens. There must be either some sort of hidden rating for player preferences regarding which team they sign with or there is a slight penalty for human team offers or both.

Night2000 · 06-09-2004, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
I agree kq.

What I am wondering is why this happens. There must be either some sort of hidden rating for player preferences regarding which team they sign with or there is a slight penalty for human team offers or both.

I would say the AI logic is screwed up in this case. The player was offered 12 mil x 3 years for 36 million. He accepts a deal instead for 8 mil x 3 years for 24 million. This would hardly ever happen in the real world. Giving up 12 million is a helluva lot. Now say there is a hidden setting that makes the player prefer one team over the other. As the money offer increases the players greed should kick in. Where he is more willing to accept the deal. Regardless of his feelings for the team. Unless of course he played for the team once, and was screwed. Then it should be that offering a lot more money still won't make him accept the offer. To me this would make this part of the game more realistic.

jazzrack · 06-09-2004, 08:05 PM

when i see these thing happen i just assume he wanted to play for his hometown or wanted a title (Gary Payton & Karl Malone played for peanuts this season for a title shot)

Falcon52 · 06-09-2004, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jazzrack
when i see these thing happen i just assume he wanted to play for his hometown or wanted a title (Gary Payton & Karl Malone played for peanuts this season for a title shot)

I think you give the AI too much credit if you think that's what "his" mindset is when they sign for 50% less for no apparent reason

jazzrack · 06-09-2004, 08:18 PM

no i just choose to give it my own reason. imagination is a wonderful thing

darkcloud4579 · 06-09-2004, 09:07 PM

I think that players often have a preference for the team they started their career with or played a lot of years with. I've noticed for a long time that players end playing for teams that they were on before - and signing with them towards the twilight of their career. Not always, of course, but I have seen it.

mlyons · 06-09-2004, 09:49 PM

How did you know what the other offers were? I never see that information. It would sure make my free agent process a lot easier if I knew what I were bidding against.

stevew · 06-09-2004, 10:03 PM

You can find the team that is number 2 in the bidding, and put them on Human control, and see their offer.

originalgamer · 06-10-2004, 01:21 AM

I recieved an e mail from the players telling me they had a better offer, and when I r-clicked on them it took me to the negotiate screen and the " better " offer was listed instead of mine, so thats how I do it. It seems your offer is 1st choice, and if not they mail you and tell you.

jazzrack · 06-10-2004, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by originalgamer
I recieved an e mail from the players telling me they had a better offer, and when I r-clicked on them it took me to the negotiate screen and the " better " offer was listed instead of mine, so thats how I do it. It seems your offer is 1st choice, and if not they mail you and tell you.

well that doesn't seem right. I don't think you should be able to see other offers. unless you are playing the game in god mode(where you contol everything)

originalgamer · 06-10-2004, 02:13 AM

Thats how it works, AFAIK. If you make someone an offer, and 3 days later they get another offer they like better, wouldnt they let you know so you may offer more? Thats how you negotiate IRL, isnt it? Seems right to me, or do I not get what your saying?

jazzrack · 06-10-2004, 02:26 AM

i don't know, if i had an offer of 1000000 from team A , team b offers me 1250000 would i go tell team A exactly how much team b offered? I doubt it. I would try and soak them for as much as possible, if you say team B offered 1250000, then team A would offer 1300000 instead of the 2000000 i would try and soak them for. but thats just my opinion so take it for what it is

06-09-2004, 03:23 AM	#1
originalgamer Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	What's with FA??? I just finished my first season and I managed to get the Phillies 96 wins before I screwed up with some noobie roster moves and got beat 3-1 in the first round by a .500 Arizona team. Then I made some coaching changes, wich went cool, and entered the FA round. I had my eye on 2 major pitchers, 1 st and 1 mr, who were both great. This is the part I dont understand. I offered what they wanted plus some, and they would mail me and tell me they got a better offer. I would check, and it wasn more than I offered. This went on until for the st I had $12,000,000 on the table and he kept telling me he had a better offer that was for only about $8!! This also happened with the other guy too, even tho I kept upping the ante. I didnt screw up the tech. end cuz my offer showed up. What gives? Last edited by Henry; 06-09-2004 at 06:41 AM.

06-09-2004, 03:35 AM	#2
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	How many years were the offers for? The AI looks at the total value of the contract, not the season salary. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

06-09-2004, 03:44 AM	#4
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	So the other deal was eight million for three seasons? If that is the case, and I admit I will have to defer to Henry or someone else who knows more than I, then it must have been based on a hidden desirability rating of some sort. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

06-09-2004, 04:45 AM	#8
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,031	Yeah, the signings are a little screwy if you ask me. As another example, I'll often see players reject a good offer, saying they want more money, then a week later with no major changes ask and accept an offer by the same team that is significantly less than the rejected offer. I see your example a lot too. Of course some players will sign for less if the situation is right, but surely it's not as prevalent as it seems in the game. How many of us would really turn down 50% more a year? I suppose IRL it probably most often happens when a player is getting old and is already well enough off, but we're seeing this with superstars in their primes. I understand the argument that it's necessary to keep competitive balance (including players not even willing to listen to half the teams), but I think it's going too far. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

06-09-2004, 04:48 AM	#9
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	I agree kq. What I am wondering is why this happens. There must be either some sort of hidden rating for player preferences regarding which team they sign with or there is a slight penalty for human team offers or both. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

06-09-2004, 03:42 AM	#3
originalgamer Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	They way its worded it tells me I was going to pay $12,000,000 per season for 3 seasons. That tells me the deal was for 36 mil over 3 years, right? The other deal was worded the same. That may not be verbatum, but that wording was one of the first things I checked. Please tell me this is very unusual, as it really screwed my plans up. If it was just one of those things, ok, but it was too silly for all the time.

06-09-2004, 03:51 AM	#5
originalgamer Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	Has anyone else spoke about anything like that ? I didnt check there loyalty, etc. I thought the boatload of cash would do it regardless. Oh, I didnt start that high, just what they asked for plus a little to be safe, but needed them so bad I ended up that high in a desparate attempt that they still turned down. Signed a couple bench guys much cheaper and that went normal.

06-09-2004, 03:52 AM	#6
originalgamer Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	There deal was same as mine, 8 mil per season for 3, mine was 12 mil per season for3.

06-09-2004, 03:58 AM	#7
originalgamer Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	Sorry for the many posts, but niether signed with his original team either, so......

06-09-2004, 08:05 PM	#11
jazzrack Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: still kicking Posts: 3,229	when i see these thing happen i just assume he wanted to play for his hometown or wanted a title (Gary Payton & Karl Malone played for peanuts this season for a title shot) __________________ . "Never confuse composure for ease" Was once Head Cheese of Corporate League Baseball

06-09-2004, 08:18 PM	#13
jazzrack Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: still kicking Posts: 3,229	no i just choose to give it my own reason. imagination is a wonderful thing __________________ . "Never confuse composure for ease" Was once Head Cheese of Corporate League Baseball

06-09-2004, 09:07 PM	#14
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,712	I think that players often have a preference for the team they started their career with or played a lot of years with. I've noticed for a long time that players end playing for teams that they were on before - and signing with them towards the twilight of their career. Not always, of course, but I have seen it. __________________ ------ My Mods OOTP Advanced Stats & DFS Suite Managerial Strategy Pack Competitive Balance Tax Calculator Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| ---- Dynasty classics: Centurion comes to OOTP5 \| DC Moneyball Dynasty (2004)

06-09-2004, 09:49 PM	#15
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	How did you know what the other offers were? I never see that information. It would sure make my free agent process a lot easier if I knew what I were bidding against. __________________ Things can always be worse.

06-09-2004, 10:03 PM	#16
stevew Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 125	You can find the team that is number 2 in the bidding, and put them on Human control, and see their offer. __________________ Sim Tsar The Peanuts and Crackerjacks Baseball League

06-10-2004, 01:21 AM	#17
originalgamer Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	I recieved an e mail from the players telling me they had a better offer, and when I r-clicked on them it took me to the negotiate screen and the " better " offer was listed instead of mine, so thats how I do it. It seems your offer is 1st choice, and if not they mail you and tell you.

06-10-2004, 02:13 AM	#19
originalgamer Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	Thats how it works, AFAIK. If you make someone an offer, and 3 days later they get another offer they like better, wouldnt they let you know so you may offer more? Thats how you negotiate IRL, isnt it? Seems right to me, or do I not get what your saying?

06-10-2004, 02:26 AM	#20
jazzrack Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: still kicking Posts: 3,229	i don't know, if i had an offer of 1000000 from team A , team b offers me 1250000 would i go tell team A exactly how much team b offered? I doubt it. I would try and soak them for as much as possible, if you say team B offered 1250000, then team A would offer 1300000 instead of the 2000000 i would try and soak them for. but thats just my opinion so take it for what it is __________________ . "Never confuse composure for ease" Was once Head Cheese of Corporate League Baseball