Fixes for the 19th century

[textilemonster]

I've got OOTP24, in case that's necessary information.
Whenever I start a historical season in the 19th century, the leagues and schedules are all messed up. For example, I just started at historical 1890. The two leagues are the National League and the American League (rather than Association) and, more importantly, the teams are sorted by region rather than historical league. Further, the season is all compressed so that there's no baseball in September.

Is my game messed up or something? Or are there mods for this that I'm missing?

I do have some mods installed, but I wouldn't think they would affect the 19th century like that. (Complete Universe FaceGen 2.0; Historical Uniforms, Logos, and Fonts; and Major League Stadiums 1901-Present collection)

[AESP_pres]

It's because the 19th century as is in the game doesn't work... except for 1871. You must redo the structure manually (league settings / league and teams) and load an historical schedule each seasons (TBH I think the current one done for 1890 doesn't worked so you must create it manually in the schedule editor). It looks like a lot of works but you get used to it fast.

It's not the mods you used since I have mod for the FGs, the uniforms and the logos... it's just the limitation of the game.

I just started 1885 in my game but as you can see it isn't hard to adjust the structures for the American Association and the National League... it's more complicated to add a third leagues and at the end of the day the players stats don't count in their Major League career.

If you want to know about something more specific feel free to ask...

[thehef]

OOTP's historical module is designed to where the pre-1901 major leagues are plausible but not actually historical. This is because - unlike from 1901 on - MLB in the 1800's was very unstable: lots of contraction & expansion from year to year, and so forth, and coding for this would likely be difficult... So OOTP creates a somewhat more stable pre-1901 MLB, with both the AL & NL existing from the beginning... And I say somewhat because there are a bunch of franchise moves and expansions, but there are no franchises that fold...

Here's what you get to start with in 1871:

American League
Boston Red Stockings
Cleveland Forest Citys
Philadelphia Athletics
Washington Olympics

National League
Chicago White Stockings
Fort Wayne Kekiongas
New York Mutuals
Rockford Forest Citys
Troy Haymakers

OOTP's original 9 teams above then evolve as follows:

• Boston Red Stockings > nickname change to Red Caps (1876) > move to NL (1882) > nickname change to Beaneaters (1883) thru 1906 & at that point the history follows that of the team becomes the Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves
• Cleveland Forest Citys > becomes Elizabeth Resolutes for 1873 > then the Hartford Dark Blues (1874) > Milwaukee Grays (1878) > Cleveland Blues (1879) St Louis Maroons in NL (1885) > Cleveland Blues in the AL (1887) > Spiders (1889), Blues (1901) and then follows the history of the Cleveland franchise that exists today
• Philadelphia Athletics > Louisville Colonels (1892) > Philadelphia Athletics (1901)...
• Washington Olympics > Blue Legs (1873) < Nationals (1875) > Syracuse Stars (1879) > Worcester Ruby Legs (1880) > Columbus Buckeyes (1883) > Washington Nationals (1884) > Buffalo Bisons (1885) > Washington Nationals (1886) > Syracuse Stars (1890) > Washington Statesmen (1891) > Senators (1892)... Minnesota Twins (1961)
• Chicago White Stockings > Middletown Mansfields (1872) > Baltimore Marylands (1873) > Chicago White Stockings (1874) > Colts (1890), Orphans (1898), Cubs (1903)...
• Fort Wayne Kekiongas > Brooklyn Atlantics (1872) > Louisville Grays (1876) > Buffalo Bisons (1879) > Brooklyn Atlantics (1884) > Grays (1885) > Bridegrooms (1888) > Grooms (1891) > Bridegrooms (1896), Superbas (1899) & eventually the Dodgers...
• New York Mutuals > Gothams (1883) > Giants (1885)... & eventually the SF Giants
• Rockford Forest Citys > Baltimore Canaries (1872) > New Haven Elm Citys (1875) > Cincinnati Reds (1876) > Red Stockings (1882) > Reds (1890)...
• Troy Haymakers > Philadelphia Whites (1873) > Troy Trojans (1879) > Philadelphia Quakers (1883) > Philadelphia Phillies (1890)...

OOTP pre-1901 expands as follows:

• 1872, AL: Brooklyn Eckfords > Keokuk Westerns (1880) > Detroit Wolverines (1881) > Columbus Solons (1889) > Milwaukee Brewers (1891) > Detroit Tigers (1901)...
• 1872, NL: Washington Nationals > Philadelphia Centennials (1875) > Pittsburgh Alleghenys (1882) > Pittsburgh Pirates (1891)...
• 1875, AL: St. Louis Brown Stockings > Browns (1883) > Milwaukee Brewers (1901) > St Louis Browns (1902)... eventually Baltimore Orioles...
• 1875, NL: St. Louis Red Stockings > Providence Grays (1878) > Kansas City Cowboys (1886) > Indianapolis Hoosiers (1887) > Kansas City Cowboys (1888) > Brooklyn Gladiators (1890)> Louisville Colonels (1891) > St. Louis Cardinals (1892) > Perfectos (1899) > Cardinals (1900)...
• 1882, AL, Baltimore Orioles > New York Highlanders (1903)... Yankees
• 1882, AL, Louisville Eclipse > Colonels (1885) > Boston Reds (1891) > Americans (1901) > Red Sox (1908)...
• 1883, AL, New York Metropolitans > Indianapolis Hoosiers (1888) > Rochester Broncos (1890) > Columbus Solons (1891) > Chicago White Sox (1901)...

For whatever reason OOTP has an uneven number of teams until 1883, when it evens the AL with the NL at 8 teams each...

Here are a couple threads you might interesting/informative:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=354248
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/....php?p=5056560

[AESP_pres]

TBH for the difficulty of coding the team contractions and additions each seasons the solution is already here... this is the game minor league structure system. I honestly think that Markus could revamp this in a version or two just by coding everything to be like the minor league system is in place of the limited main league with two sub-leagues format the game use since forever (at least since OOTP2007 who was my first purchase).

That would be so awesome to not have to do the work manually for the 19th century every years... at least now I'm used to it so creating a season as it was isn't too complicated.

[textilemonster]

Alright, thanks. I just kind of figured that, with all the other mods out there, someone would have done, say, a correct schedule for some of the later years. :P That stuff about the game not handling contraction certainly would make the early days WAY hard to model accurately.

My main issue is having seasons too condensed for my liking, so I think I can look through here https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=324385
and find some schedules that work.

Thanks!

[AESP_pres]

Be sure to double check the schedule. Even if they work depending if you choose as played or as scheduled they can't have team inversions error. I know that happen often in the early years of the 19th century and in 1890.

But sometimes everything is fine, that depends of the team ID as your league progress... as I always start in the beginning I usually as to be cautious with the 1873, 1875 and 1890 schedules.

[Garlon]

I start in 1871 and handle the expansion manually.

1871-1875: 4 teams, 84 games
1876-1881: 8 teams, 84 games
1882-1891: 12 teams, 130 games
1892-1900: 16 teams, 140 games

If you do it this way you gradually bring in all of the franchises without having to contract any teams.

You need to turn off injuries though because there are so few players in the 19th century.

[textilemonster]

I did go back and edit teams so that at least they're in the AL if they were in the American Association and the NL if they weren't, which was probably my biggest gripe. I also added the Players' League as a AAA minor league in 1890, but haven't played far enough to see if any of this breaks my game.

[Garlon]

We have added a new 19th century progression to an NeL Mod that we posted.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=357028

[textilemonster]

Oh, nice!