Vegas A's Stadium

[pilight]

I wonder how much they will charge for A's tickets in Sacto

[Le Grande Orange]

Given that the A's have a deal in place, under the current CBA the team will receive 75% of its revenue sharing allotment in 2024 and 100% in 2025 and 2026. (2027 and beyond would be covered in the next CBA.) This means the higher earning MLB teams will be subsidizing the A's during its stay in Sacramento.

[kq76]

So I heard/read the other day that the whole reason why Fisher wants to move the team is because doing so will double the value of the team from 1.2B to 2.4B. And going from the 10th largest market (admittedly only a share of it) to the 40th that just doesn't compute for me. A nice new stadium may increase the value, but would any of us (I know, it's not likely any of us could afford it, but let's pretend) really pay double for it just because they're in Vegas? I would think the value of any team is built up by winning over time, but especially recently, which the As certainly have not done and are not likely to do as long as Fisher owns them. Someone may be desperate enough to get into the pro sports team owning business to pay 2.4B for them now, but I just don't see whatever the price is doubling just because they're then in Vegas.

Orlando at 16th is the largest market that doesn't have a team and I think most people don't look at it as a very promising market given how poor the Tampa market has been. Sacramento, where the As are temporarily going and where I suspect they might stay (I don't trust that Fisher will ever get the stadium he wants in Vegas), is the 20th market so it may not be as bad as some may first think of it. But even with all the glitz and glamour of Vegas, going from the 10th, to the 20th, to the 40th doesn't sound like that great of an idea. The only market that I think would justify paying double for the As would be if they were allowed to move somewhere in or near New York City and I don't think the Yankees or Mets would easily allow that. Maybe they should just move back to Philly. After all, it's the largest market that doesn't currently have 2 teams (LA being arguable, I guess).

[Syd Thrift]

I think it would be a really hard sell due to there not being the one main city but the Inland Empire in California (Riverside and San Bernardino among a bunch of other smaller cities) is a bigger market than Orlando and I feel like it’d be a better place for baseball: where in the NBA you really just need a rabid core of around 20,000 fans, in the MLB you can have a more diffuse crowd as long as you’ve got a base of, say, 2.5M to pull from. The IE would really put that to the test but it’d be interesting at least.

[kq76]

I've seen you mention Riverside / the IE before and I wonder, which IYO is a better market, it or Anaheim? I really don't know, but I'm curious because it sounds like Anaheim as a market gets dismissed a lot, that it's really not LA even though it is included in its urban and metro areas. For example, would the Angels be better off if they were based somewhere in the IE?

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by kq76

I've seen you mention Riverside / the IE before and I wonder, which IYO is a better market, it or Anaheim? I really don't know, but I'm curious because it sounds like Anaheim as a market gets dismissed a lot, that it's really not LA even though it is included in its urban and metro areas. For example, would the Angels be better off if they were based somewhere in the IE?

I mean, it’s not exactly LA but it’s in that market and it gets the suburbs as much if not more than Chavez Ravine, doesn’t it? I’d probably give it to Anaheim, especially given that the owners really want to tie it to greater LA themselves (and also the fact that as long as they live there, they’ll have the dumbest nickname in all sports, The Angels Angels).

I think IE is interesting. I honestly don’t know if it would support a major league team and none of the big 4 have tried. It’s really not all that close to LA though, like if Portland and Vancouver are candidates for big 4 teams when Seattle exists then surely the IE should.

[dsvitak]

The Carolinas, somewhere, would be a nice call. Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond, or in that area. LOTS of people with a decent drive to see a game. Call it halfway between Atlanta and Washington DC. Let me check.

Charlotte. Four or five medium sized cities, with probably 3-4 million people within a hundred miles.

A LOT more than I thought...likely closer to 6-7 million:

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_...North_Carolina

[Cobra Mgr]

I live in NC. The voters ain't into welfare for sports owners. Especially after seeing how dirty Tepper did Rock Hill, SC.

[Pelican]

I really like the return to Philly idea. They never should have left. Until 1950, it was the Phillies who were more likely to leave. They would have to shift Divisions, but it would be awesome to have them share CBP with the Fightin's until they could build a new stadium.

Carolina is tough because Charlotte is too far from the Raleigh area to share a team. It's not the Midwest. People won't drive that far. But hockey has worked in Raleigh, and basketball has sort've worked in Charlotte. Pick one.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Carolina is tough because Charlotte is too far from the Raleigh area to share a team. It's not the Midwest. People won't drive that far. But hockey has worked in Raleigh, and basketball has sort've worked in Charlotte. Pick one.

A comparison of metropolitan statistical area (2020):

                                               Per Capita
Metropolitan Statistical Area      Population    Income
---------------------------------------------------------
Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC   2,669,651    59,192
Pittsburgh, PA                      2,455,323    59,399
Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN                2,251,974    60,250
Kansas City, MO-KS                  2,195,218    57,864
Cleveland, OH                       2,184,115    55,734
Milwaukee-Waukesha, WI              1,574,476    60,625
Raleigh-Cary, NC                    1,417,455    61,658
---------------------------------------------------------

The Charlotte metro area has a population greater than five areas currently home to an MLB club, and a per capita income higher than two of them (and only slightly lower than two others).

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

A comparison of metropolitan statistical area (2020):

                                               Per Capita
Metropolitan Statistical Area      Population    Income
---------------------------------------------------------
Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC   2,669,651    59,192
Pittsburgh, PA                      2,455,323    59,399
Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN                2,251,974    60,250
Kansas City, MO-KS                  2,195,218    57,864
Cleveland, OH                       2,184,115    55,734
Milwaukee-Waukesha, WI              1,574,476    60,625
Raleigh-Cary, NC                    1,417,455    61,658
---------------------------------------------------------

The Charlotte metro area has a population greater than five areas currently home to an MLB club, and a per capita income higher than two of them (and only slightly lower than two others).

I always wondered why the Chicago area got THREE teams..as Milwaukee is an easy ride to Wrigley Field, and only 60 miles distance.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by pilight

The old saying is that the English think 100 miles is a long way while Americans think 100 years is a long time.

Had a cousin who lived in Boston and was giving a tour to a friend who was visiting from England. At one point the cousin said something like, "... and this building here is over 200 years old." The Englander? Blank stare.

Originally Posted by Amazin69

In the 1930s and 1940s, when the (non-affiliated) Pacific Coast League considered itself equivalent to the AL/NL, there were PCL stars who turned down chances to go East.

That was actually a thing with the PCL in the decades prior to the 30's, too!

Re Riverside/IE vs Anaheim, I'd say that Anaheim is a better market because I just get the feel that "the OC" is more connected than the various IE cities are. They seem more spread out (I live in the city of Orange, which is next to Anaheim & Santa Ana, among other smaller OC cities; I drive in and around the IE from time to time).

That said, much like the NY metro area, greater LA could most-likely support a 3rd team. If we were to completely re-rack things and - without regard to current facilities or traditions - look to place three teams in greater LA, it'd be hard to choose from among downtown LA, Long Beach, OC (Anaheim), Pasadena area, "the Valley," and the IE. I mean, "somewhere near LA proper" would probably get the first nod, and then that specific location would determine whether the other areas - specifically downtown, Long Beach, and Pasadena - were in still play.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

I always wondered why the Chicago area got THREE teams..as Milwaukee is an easy ride to Wrigley Field, and only 60 miles distance.

Because Chicago is large, the White Sox never left, and Milwaukee isn’t really that close?

[Cobra Mgr]

Hope the A's are ready. Hope the whole league is ready.

[Cobra Mgr]

Tentative timeline is to have a new park by 2028.

[monkeyman576]

If I were Las Vegas I'd be a little tired of getting other cities franchises more than my own expansion teams. Sloppy seconds?

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

If I were Las Vegas I'd be a little tired of getting other cities franchises more than my own expansion teams. Sloppy seconds?

I doubt the betting capital of America cares as long as they profit.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Pelican

I really like the return to Philly idea. They never should have left. Until 1950, it was the Phillies who were more likely to leave.

Not sure about that.
The A's had more success in a couple of short spurts but they were pretty awful most of the time.
I think Connie Mack said it was better for his team to be competitive during the season and not make the playoffs.
So he didn't have to pay higher wages.
Problem for him was that he was fighting his great eye for talent.
Wonder what would have happened if Mack had ever though of how much more revenue winning would bring to his team.
Anyway if you cant keep your best players then i'm not sure what that says about a team's chances of staying in a city.
Then again the Pirates are still in Pittsburgh.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Not sure about that.
The A's had more success in a couple of short spurts but they were pretty awful most of the time.
I think Connie Mack said it was better for his team to be competitive during the season and not make the playoffs.
So he didn't have to pay higher wages.
Problem for him was that he was fighting his great eye for talent.
Wonder what would have happened if Mack had ever though of how much more revenue winning would bring to his team.
Anyway if you cant keep your best players then i'm not sure what that says about a team's chances of staying in a city.
Then again the Pirates are still in Pittsburgh.

Nah, the Phillies were absolutely moribund prior to the 40s. Their home stadium into the 30s was a horrifically bad stadium, the Baker Bowl, which I know is now fondly remembered for its goofy dimensions but at the time was widely and correctly viewed as a terrible park that was shaped a certain way to fit into a city park in a bad part of town. They finally gave, dumped that old piece of trash, paid rent to the A’s for Shibe Park, and were essentially the Clippers for another 15 or so years. Then the A’s got extremely cheap as Connie Mack got very old and the team was basically run by his not-in-there-for-his-talent son Earle Mack, and by the 50s, when the league was just plain getting too large for 16 teams in 10 cities, yes, the Phillies were the team.

But lest we forget, as late as World War II Bill Veeck almost bought them; his thing even then was that he didn’t actually have much money and so he tended to do promotions and gimmicks to keep teams afloat (everyone remembers Eddie Gaedel in St Louis but he was very very much that kind of “trader Bob” kind of guy in Cleveland too). Veeck claimed his plan was to fill the roster with Negro Leaguers, which a. seems unlikely and b. if true would have been a huge reason why the league and the old racist Kennesaw Mountain Landis put the kibosh on the deal, but on the other hand I wouldn’t put it past him (and he was the guy who integrated the AL so there is that).

[Desert_Nomad]

I think we could do something better with the 380 M of tax payers money, like maybe, possibly...if it's ok to house the homeless !