Historical Game Adjust/Weaken settings AKA the Make Bad Setting - Page 5

Scoman · 03-25-2024, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff1787

As of now, I am going on what Garlon finally said - 3yr multiply adjust numbers by 3...5yr multiply adjust numbers by 5.

1000/250 and 125/50. 5 year recalc

Ive tested those setting with very good results in a 1901 to 2023 test run.

Matt Arnold · 03-25-2024, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

We didn't assume anything. We were told by a trusted insider. Who then continued the false information by this year saying it didn't work that way anymore. And so we now have a bunch of people who want to put 1000 in a field where the number in that field was never higher than 300.

And no, it's not time to move on. It's time for Garlon and the devs to undo the damage caused by Garlon telling people to put 1000 in the ABs adjust field.

You could certainly put 1000 in there if you want.

The big point with the adjust/weak fields is that I think different users tend to use those values for different purposes.

Some people simply want them there to make sure that very small sample sizes don't get over-represented. You don't want to start a game in 1957 and have Bob Hazle set the hits record because he comes in with a max contact rating for that year.

But there are others who use the settings almost more as a balance issue, with it being a lot more aggressive.

It really depends on which way you want to use it. And even with all of that, the way it's done this year tends to be even less aggressive than previous years. Often in previous years, the minute someone fell under the limits, they were massively adjusted down. The current setup tries to be a lot more moderate, so that players that fall under the limits are not adjusted down to being worse than a AA player.

David Watts · 03-25-2024, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

You could certainly put 1000 in there if you want.

The big point with the adjust/weak fields is that I think different users tend to use those values for different purposes.

Some people simply want them there to make sure that very small sample sizes don't get over-represented. You don't want to start a game in 1957 and have Bob Hazle set the hits record because he comes in with a max contact rating for that year.

But there are others who use the settings almost more as a balance issue, with it being a lot more aggressive.

It really depends on which way you want to use it. And even with all of that, the way it's done this year tends to be even less aggressive than previous years. Often in previous years, the minute someone fell under the limits, they were massively adjusted down. The current setup tries to be a lot more moderate, so that players that fall under the limits are not adjusted down to being worse than a AA player.

I think most people just want to know how the adjust/weaken settings actually work. Starting around OOTP 21 or 22 the idea that the game took the adjust/weaken settings and multiplied it by 3 for 3 year recalc leaguea and 5 for 5 year recalc leagues was all over the historical forums. Then out of the blue we find out that OOTP24 didn't use this method. So for all of last year, I used 200/50 for my make bad settings thinking the game was multiplying that by 3 (3 year recalc). This probably explains why I had Jim St Vrain make the Hall of Fame in two separate random debuts using 24, Also had a cat that pitched even less than St. Vrain save 700+ games using those settings.

So, I can't speak for others, but, I simply want an answer on how the adjust weaken settings work. As someone noted above, Nowhere in the manual does it say anything about the game taking the adjust/weaken settings and multiplying it by the recalc years, yet that was repeated enough times in the historical forums that it became the gospel. I agree everyone will use the settings in different ways to achieve different things, but believe it or not, some of us buy the game to enjoy it and have zero interest in running tests all year while we wait for the next version to come out.......some is the key word there.

Jeff1787 · 03-25-2024, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoman

1000/250 and 125/50. 5 year recalc

Ive tested those setting with very good results in a 1901 to 2023 test run.

Thank you

David Watts · 03-25-2024, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoman

1000/250 and 125/50. 5 year recalc

Ive tested those setting with very good results in a 1901 to 2023 test run.

What are you seeing in terms of pitchers? It was reported yesterday that pitchers are being rated too low, especially in terms of potential. Were most to the great pitchers great in your run through? Thanks.

Scoman · 03-25-2024, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

What are you seeing in terms of pitchers? It was reported yesterday that pitchers are being rated too low, especially in terms of potential. Were most to the great pitchers great in your run through? Thanks.

IRL there were 24 300 game winners in my run thru i had 26 including

1 Walter Johnson* 491 1907-1927
2 Cy Young* 421 1890-1909
3 Tom Glavine* 397 1987-2008
4 Roger Clemens* 389 1984-2007
5 Nolan Ryan* 384 1966-1993
6 Freddie Fitzsimmons* 376 1925-1943
7 Kid Nichols* 371 1890-1906
8 Greg Maddux* 365 1986-2008
9 Grover Cleveland Alexander* 360 1911-1928
10 Steve Carlton* 357 1965-1988
11 Pud Galvin* 352 1875-1892
12 Bert Blyleven* 347 1970-1992
13 Red Ruffing* 346 1924-1947
14 Christy Mathewson* 344 1900-1916
15 Early Wynn* 342 1939-1963
16 Don Sutton* 335 1966-1988
17 John Clarkson* 328 1882-1894
17 Phil Niekro* 328 1964-1987
19 Warren Spahn* 327 1942-1965
20 Tom Seaver* 326 1967-1986
21 Randy Johnson* 325 1988-2009
21 Tim Keefe* 325 1880-1893
23 Lefty Grove* 310 1925-1941
24 Jerry Koosman* 309 1967-1985
25 Mickey Welch* 307 1880-1892
26 Jack Quinn* 301 1909-1933

This is with no minors.

Hits

IRL there were 33 players in the 3000 hit club in my sim I had 32

H YEAR Open Season Leaderboard
1 Ty Cobb* 4274 1905-1928
2 Pete Rose* 3858 1963-1986
3 Stan Musial* 3721 1941-1963
4 Hank Aaron* 3702 1954-1976
5 Eddie Collins* 3632 1906-1930
6 Honus Wagner* 3597 1897-1917
7 Tris Speaker* 3541 1907-1928
8 Rogers Hornsby* 3488 1915-1937
9 Eddie Murray* 3439 1977-1997
10 Cap Anson* 3418 1871-1897
11 Gary Sheffield* 3397 1988-2009
12 Tony Gwynn* 3393 1982-2001
13 Willie Mays* 3385 1951-1973
14 Albert Pujols 3355 2001-2022
15 Nap Lajoie* 3335 1896-1916
16 George Brett* 3329 1973-1993
17 Paul Molitor* 3306 1978-1998
18 Bill Buckner 3278 1969-1990
19 Al Kaline* 3247 1953-1974
20 Miguel Cabrera# 3244 2003-2023
21 Frank Robinson* 3195 1956-1976
22 Alex Rodriguez* 3180 1994-2016
23 Cal Ripken Jr.* 3140 1981-2001
24 Rod Carew* 3136 1967-1985
25 Dave Winfield 3127 1973-1995
26 Roberto Clemente* 3121 1955-1972
27 Willie Keeler* 3097 1892-1910
28 Sam Crawford* 3079 1899-1917
29 Derek Jeter 3073 1995-2014
30 Julio Franco 3045 1982-2007
30 Paul Waner* 3045 1926-1944
32 Lou Gehrig* 3008 1923-1939

This was with player fatigue at very high also.

Home runs

IRL 28 players in the 500 club in my sim I had 22

1 Barry Bonds* 771 1986-2007
2 Mark McGwire* 763 1986-2001
3 Hank Aaron* 730 1954-1976
4 Alex Rodriguez* 691 1994-2016
5 Albert Pujols 683 2001-2022
6 Ken Griffey Jr.* 661 1989-2010
7 Frank Robinson* 652 1956-1976
8 Willie Mays* 648 1951-1973
9 Babe Ruth* 633 1914-1935
10 Gary Sheffield* 607 1988-2009
11 Ted Williams* 599 1939-1960
12 Jim Thome* 582 1991-2012
13 David Ortiz* 575 1997-2016
14 Manny Ramirez* 550 1993-2011
15 Frank Thomas* 542 1990-2008
16 Mike Schmidt* 533 1972-1989
17 Mickey Mantle* 521 1951-1968
18 Harmon Killebrew* 520 1954-1975
19 Willie McCovey* 518 1959-1980
20 Sammy Sosa 510 1989-2007
21 Dave Kingman 508 1971-1986
22 Carlos Delgado* 503 1993-2009
22 Fred McGriff* 503 1986-2004
24 Reggie Jackson 498 1967-1987
25 Chipper Jones* 497 1993-2012
26 Eddie Mathews* 495 1952-1968
27 Ernie Banks* 494 1953-1971
28 Eddie Murray* 490 1977-1997

David Watts · 03-25-2024, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoman

IRL there were 24 300 game winners in my run thru i had 26 including

1 Walter Johnson* 491 1907-1927
2 Cy Young* 421 1890-1909
3 Tom Glavine* 397 1987-2008
4 Roger Clemens* 389 1984-2007
5 Nolan Ryan* 384 1966-1993
6 Freddie Fitzsimmons* 376 1925-1943
7 Kid Nichols* 371 1890-1906
8 Greg Maddux* 365 1986-2008
9 Grover Cleveland Alexander* 360 1911-1928
10 Steve Carlton* 357 1965-1988
11 Pud Galvin* 352 1875-1892
12 Bert Blyleven* 347 1970-1992
13 Red Ruffing* 346 1924-1947
14 Christy Mathewson* 344 1900-1916
15 Early Wynn* 342 1939-1963
16 Don Sutton* 335 1966-1988
17 John Clarkson* 328 1882-1894
17 Phil Niekro* 328 1964-1987
19 Warren Spahn* 327 1942-1965
20 Tom Seaver* 326 1967-1986
21 Randy Johnson* 325 1988-2009
21 Tim Keefe* 325 1880-1893
23 Lefty Grove* 310 1925-1941
24 Jerry Koosman* 309 1967-1985
25 Mickey Welch* 307 1880-1892
26 Jack Quinn* 301 1909-1933

This is with no minors.

Hits

IRL there were 33 players in the 3000 hit club in my sim I had 32

H YEAR Open Season Leaderboard
1 Ty Cobb* 4274 1905-1928
2 Pete Rose* 3858 1963-1986
3 Stan Musial* 3721 1941-1963
4 Hank Aaron* 3702 1954-1976
5 Eddie Collins* 3632 1906-1930
6 Honus Wagner* 3597 1897-1917
7 Tris Speaker* 3541 1907-1928
8 Rogers Hornsby* 3488 1915-1937
9 Eddie Murray* 3439 1977-1997
10 Cap Anson* 3418 1871-1897
11 Gary Sheffield* 3397 1988-2009
12 Tony Gwynn* 3393 1982-2001
13 Willie Mays* 3385 1951-1973
14 Albert Pujols 3355 2001-2022
15 Nap Lajoie* 3335 1896-1916
16 George Brett* 3329 1973-1993
17 Paul Molitor* 3306 1978-1998
18 Bill Buckner 3278 1969-1990
19 Al Kaline* 3247 1953-1974
20 Miguel Cabrera# 3244 2003-2023
21 Frank Robinson* 3195 1956-1976
22 Alex Rodriguez* 3180 1994-2016
23 Cal Ripken Jr.* 3140 1981-2001
24 Rod Carew* 3136 1967-1985
25 Dave Winfield 3127 1973-1995
26 Roberto Clemente* 3121 1955-1972
27 Willie Keeler* 3097 1892-1910
28 Sam Crawford* 3079 1899-1917
29 Derek Jeter 3073 1995-2014
30 Julio Franco 3045 1982-2007
30 Paul Waner* 3045 1926-1944
32 Lou Gehrig* 3008 1923-1939

This was with player fatigue at very high also.

Home runs

IRL 28 players in the 500 club in my sim I had 22

1 Barry Bonds* 771 1986-2007
2 Mark McGwire* 763 1986-2001
3 Hank Aaron* 730 1954-1976
4 Alex Rodriguez* 691 1994-2016
5 Albert Pujols 683 2001-2022
6 Ken Griffey Jr.* 661 1989-2010
7 Frank Robinson* 652 1956-1976
8 Willie Mays* 648 1951-1973
9 Babe Ruth* 633 1914-1935
10 Gary Sheffield* 607 1988-2009
11 Ted Williams* 599 1939-1960
12 Jim Thome* 582 1991-2012
13 David Ortiz* 575 1997-2016
14 Manny Ramirez* 550 1993-2011
15 Frank Thomas* 542 1990-2008
16 Mike Schmidt* 533 1972-1989
17 Mickey Mantle* 521 1951-1968
18 Harmon Killebrew* 520 1954-1975
19 Willie McCovey* 518 1959-1980
20 Sammy Sosa 510 1989-2007
21 Dave Kingman 508 1971-1986
22 Carlos Delgado* 503 1993-2009
22 Fred McGriff* 503 1986-2004
24 Reggie Jackson 498 1967-1987
25 Chipper Jones* 497 1993-2012
26 Eddie Mathews* 495 1952-1968
27 Ernie Banks* 494 1953-1971
28 Eddie Murray* 490 1977-1997

Thank you so much. So, the report that pitchers are coming in with way too low rating/potential really isn't stopping pitchers from succeeding. Very cool

Scoman · 03-25-2024, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Thank you so much. So, the report that pitchers are coming in with way too low rating/potential really isn't stopping pitchers from succeeding. Very cool

With the right combination of settings this version is putting out the best historical results Ive witnessed in my 20 some years of playing this game.

David Watts · 03-25-2024, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoman

With the right combination of settings this version is putting out the best historical results Ive witnessed in my 20 some years of playing this game.

This is great to hear.

Brad K · 03-25-2024, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoman

With the right combination of settings this version is putting out the best historical results Ive witnessed in my 20 some years of playing this game.

Are they performing on the money or in the ballpark? If it's on the money that's a bad thing for people who play the game instead of testing it. Hopefully the yearly results vary more than the career results.

Brad K · 03-25-2024, 04:35 PM

It's interesting that data is being presented on how close the performance of the stars is to reality. The purpose of adjust/weaken is to control the output of low AB/IP players. The non adjusted players are involved only because of a design error where the effects of the changes in ratings due to the feature affect every player. The effects should have been confined to the pool of players being adjusted not spread over every player.

What matters here is what the adjusted players are doing. I'd expect the performance of the stars to be closer to reality. After all, with an entry of 1000 ABs almost no one is adjusted.

thehef · 03-25-2024, 04:45 PM

I believe Scoman is playing with 5-year recalc, so I would expect that even if his results are on the money, he'd be referencing things like # of 50+ homerun hitters, number of 20+ game winners, and maybe more-generally, league totals as being very close. But there'd be no on-the-money comparisons to individual players, unless maybe you're talking totals for a career... and even that should vary somewhat...

But I'll let Scoman speak for himself

Brad K · 03-25-2024, 05:00 PM

The point of weaken/adjust is to prevent performance in real life largely due to chance from becoming the player's rating in OOTP. Those are the players to look at to evaluate it's effectiveness, not the stars. This data is barking up the wrong tree.

What happens if you run Carl Taylor with no adjust? Does a manager (either human or AI) look at his ratings (he hit .348 in 1969) play him every day and let him win the batting championship? THAT is what adjust/weaken is supposed to address, not putting stars closer to their RL performances.

Scoman · 03-25-2024, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

The point of weaken/adjust is to prevent performance in real life largely due to chance from becoming the player's rating in OOTP. Those are the players to look at to evaluate it's effectiveness, not the stars. This data is barking up the wrong tree.

What happens if you run Carl Taylor with no adjust? Does a manager (either human or AI) look at his ratings (he hit .348 in 1969) play him every day and let him win the batting championship? THAT is what adjust/weaken is supposed to address, not putting stars closer to their RL performances.

Year/Team/League Age G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI R BB HP SF K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS OPS+ wRC+ WAR
1968 Oakland - MLB 24 109 336 80 14 1 7 48 30 36 2 3 54 5 8 .238 .313 .348 .661 108 111 1.1
1969 Oakland - MLB 25 86 331 103 22 2 6 45 57 51 4 4 53 4 7 .311 .405 .444 .849 148 149 3.0
1970 Oakland - MLB 26 153 505 143 24 1 12 77 82 90 6 3 73 19 3 .283 .396 .406 .802 125 129 3.8
1971 Oakland - MLB 27 144 471 130 20 3 4 66 59 84 3 3 74 5 5 .276 .387 .357 .743 118 123 0.7
1972 Oakland - MLB 28 32 56 10 0 0 0 1 3 3 0 0 8 2 0 .179 .220 .179 .399 24 21 -0.1
1973 Oakland - MLB 29 13 33 5 1 0 1 3 3 3 0 0 6 0 1 .152 .222 .273 .495 42 42 -0.2
Total MLB 537 1732 471 81 7 30 240 234 267 15 13 268 35 24 .272 .371 .379 .750 120 123 8.3

Garlon · 03-25-2024, 05:09 PM

These are some results from an earlier build for batter with 5yr recalc, RAH, and players entering through the rookie draft.

Cap Anson
Real: .333/.395/.445
OOTP: .332/.389/.437

Ty Cobb
Real: .366/.432/.512
OOTP: .372/.438/.520

Joe Jackson
Real: .356/.422/.517
OOTP: .357/.428/.518

Rogers Hornsby
Real: .358/.432/.577
OOTP .355/.428/.558

George Sisler
Real: .340/.378/.468
OOTP: .344/.383/.477

Tris Speaker
Real: .345/.427/.500
OOTP: .342/.424/.486

Ted Williams
Real: .344/.480/.634
OOTP: .344/.471/.623

Nap Lajoie
Real: .338/.379/.467
OOTP: .343/.386/.481

Honus Wagner
Real: .327/.390/.466
OOTP: .330/.394/.477

Stan Musial
Real: .331/.415/.559
OOTP: .329/.411/.547

Joe Dimaggio
Real: .325/.396/.579
OOTP: .328/.405/.573

Joe Sewell
Real: .312/.389/.413 with 15.9 K per 1000 AB
OOTP: .308/.382/.400 with 15.7 K per 1000 AB

Jimmie Foxx
Real: .325/.426/.609
OOTP: .324/.420/.602

Roberto Clemente
Real: .317/.359/.475
OOTP: .318/.351/.468

Wade Boggs
Real: .328/.415/.443
OOTP: .325/.407/.438

Hank Greenberg
Real: .313/.410/.605
OOTP .317/.404/.602

Ichiro Suzuki
Real: .311/.355/.402
OOTP: .316/.354/.410

Hank Aaron
Real: .305/.374/.555
OOTP: .305/.368/.536

Willie Mays
Real: .302/.384/.557
OOTP: .301/.380/.542

Albert Pujols
Real: .296/.374/.544
OOTP: .296/.361/.531

Alex Rodriguez
Real: .295/.380/.550
OOTP: .302/.384/.554

Paul Molitor
Real: .306/.369/.448
OOTP: .304/.366/.443

Edgar Martinez
Real: .312/.418/.515
OOTP: .311/.415/.514

Derek Jeter
Real: .310/.377/.440
OOTP: .314/.386/.446

Joe Morgan
Real: .271/.392/.427
OOTP: .273/.390/.415

Robin Yount
Real: .285/.342/.430
OOTP: .288/.343/.429

Barry Larkin
Real: .295/.371/.444
OOTP: .299/.375/.442

Lou Whitaker
Real: .276/.363/.426
OOTP: .274/.365/.415

Johnny Bench
Real: .267/.342/.476
OOTP: .270/.340/.474

Sal Bando
Real: .254/.352/.408
OOTP: .260/.358/.406

Ralph Kiner
Real: .279/.396/.548
OOTP: .279/.387/.537

Steve Finley
Real: .271/.332/.442
OOTP: .273/.333/.449

Eric Davis
Real: .269/.359/.482
OOTP: .270/.355/.481

Jason Kendall
Real: .288/.366/.378
OOTP: .289/.367/.375

Buster Posey
Real: .302/.372/.460
OOTP: .300/.372/.447

Ray Lankford
Real: .272/.364/.477
OOTP: .272/.371/.479

George Grantham
Real: .302/.391/.461
OOTP: .300/.389/.448

WHIP/HR per 9/BB per 9/K per 9

Nolan Ryan
Real : 1.25/0.5/4.7/9.5
OOTP: 1.25/0.6/4.7/9.1

Randy Johnson
Real : 1.17/0.9/3.3/10.6
OOTP: 1.20/0.8/3.4/10.0

Roger Clemens
Real : 1.17/0.7/2.9/8.6
OOTP: 1.23/0.7/3.0/8.3

Steve Carlton
Real : 1.25/0.7/3.2/7.1
OOTP: 1.29/0.6/3.2/7.2

Bert Blyleven
Real : 1.20/0.8/2.4/6.7
OOTP: 1.27/0.8/2.6/6.7

Tom Seaver
Real : 1.12/0.7/2.6/6.8
OOTP: 1.15/0.7/2.8/6.8

Don Sutton
Real : 1.14/0.8/2.3/6.1
OOTP: 1.13/0.8/2.5/5.8

Gaylord Perry
Real : 1.18/0.7/2.3/5.9
OOTP: 1.19/0.7/2.3/5.9

Walter Johnson
Real: 1.06/0.1/2.1/5.3
OOTP: 1.14/0.2/2.4/4.9

Greg Maddux
Real : 1.14/0.6/1.8/6.1
OOTP: 1.16/0.7/1.8/6.1

Max Scherzer
Real : 1.08/1.0/2.4/10.7
OOTP: 1.08/1.0/2.5/10.5

Phil Niekro
Real : 1.27/0.8/3.0/5.6
OOTP: 1.29/0.8/3.1/5.5

Justin Verlander
Real : 1.12/0.9/2.5/9.0
OOTP: 1.17/0.9/2.9/9.3

Fergie Jenkins
Real : 1.14/1.0/2.0/6.4
OOTP: 1.12/0.9/2.1/6.4

Pedro Martinez
Real : 1.05/0.8/2.4/10.0
OOTP: 1.13/0.8/2.7/9.8

Bob Gibson
Real : 1.19/0.6/3.1/7.2
OOTP: 1.18/0.6/3.1/7.5

Curth Schilling
Real : 1.14/1.0/2.0/8.6
OOTP: 1.22/0.9/2.2/8.3

CC Sabathia
Real : 1.26/1.0/2.8/7.8
OOTP: 1.32/0.9/3.0/7.3

John Smoltz
Real : 1.18/0.7/2.6/8.0
OOTP: 1.23/0.7/2.7/7.7

Zack Greinke
Real : 1.17/1.0/2.0/7.9
OOTP: 1.29/1.1/2.3/7.5

Clayton Kershaw
Real : 1.00/0.7/2.2/9.8
OOTP: 1.08/0.9/2.5/9.1

Jim Bunning:
Real : 1.18/0.9/2.4/6.8
OOTP: 1.24/0.8/2.4/6.7

Mickey Lolich
Real : 1.23/0.9/2.7/7.0
OOTP: 1.19/0.7/2.7/6.8

Mike Mussina
Real : 1.19/0.9/2.0/7.1
OOTP: 1.33/1.0/2.6/7.0

Cy Young
Real : 1.13/0.2/1.5/3.4
OOTP: 1.18/0.2/1.7/3.4

Mariano Rivera
Real : 1.00/0.5/2.0/8.2
OOTP: 1.01/0.6/2.3/8.0

34 players reached 500 HR (real is 28)

47 players reached 50+ HR in a season (real is 48)

The 100th best HR season was 46 (real is 47)

Top HR season was 69 (McGwire) and only McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds reached 60+ in a season.

21 pitchers reached 300 wins (24 real)

Eugene Church · 03-25-2024, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprague

EC,
A guy for ootp 23 put out a quickstart called Goat 3.51
IT has pretty much every player in history, modelled on 3 or 4 best seasons.
I would update that to 25, then delete the players from there you don't want, no need to manually upload anyone then, and your choice is everyone from majors to negro players.
Suggestion anyway

sprague, I forgot to thank you for this post.

I downloaded Goat 3.51's quickstart and will use it... it should save me much time in uploading players.

Really appreciate the suggestion.

Brad K · 03-25-2024, 05:32 PM

Garlon, you're missing the point of the feature. You've subverted it for your own purpose, which is to run tests to see how close the league and the stars perform to real life. And you tell people to use your settings without knowing how they play.

The purpose of adjust/weaken is to prevent managers, human or AI, from gaming the ratings with players who by luck over performed what was realistic in a few ABs. By recommending your settings to everyone you are creating a bad situation for those who play the game as a GM or manager rather than testing it for the thrill of geting number close.

It's the same thing with your insistence on using retire according to history. You ignore the people who actually play the game for whom retire according to history is an excuse to give an old player the huge mutli year contract he wants knowing the player will retire when he sucks and the team won't owe the money.

You've given a lot of bad information over the years. Before you go on, maybe you should apologize for this recent fiasco you created (it must have been quite embarrassing for the devs to admit they don't know how the game works, and it's your fault that came out) and then maybe give it a break for a while and turn over a new leaf.

thehef · 03-25-2024, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlon

These are some results from an earlier build for batter with 5yr recalc, RAH, and players entering through the rookie draft...

Those certainly look good... Real stats or newts? What Adj/Wkn settings?

Have you done any 1-yr recalc testing? What are the recommended settings for the most-accurate replay?

Garlon · 03-25-2024, 06:22 PM

BradK, you can play the game however you want. I do play GM as well and get great results for all players not just star players. .

You do not have to use RAH, but you must realize that when you turn it off but after a couple decades you will literally have thousands more active players than there were in any given season. There are only so many starting pitchers and so many starting SS in a league and many players are not going to play when you do that. This is totally fine as the game is a sandbox.

The adjust/weaken is there for determining the sample size for AB and IP. You can use any values you want.

Brad K · 03-25-2024, 07:38 PM

When you turn off retire according to history you get a lot of players on the free agent list. When the game runs the test of the LTMs it uses the players on the rosters. Those on the FA list are irrelevant.

The human knows when players will retire. AI does not. A human doesn't need this help against AI. The error here is OOTP not bumping up the career ending injury rate when retire according to history is not selected. What's the point of being a GM and knowing exactly when someone will retire and that his output will be very close to historical even if he doesn't play in his historical parks?

03-25-2024, 05:09 PM	#95
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	These are some results from an earlier build for batter with 5yr recalc, RAH, and players entering through the rookie draft. Cap Anson Real: .333/.395/.445 OOTP: .332/.389/.437 Ty Cobb Real: .366/.432/.512 OOTP: .372/.438/.520 Joe Jackson Real: .356/.422/.517 OOTP: .357/.428/.518 Rogers Hornsby Real: .358/.432/.577 OOTP .355/.428/.558 George Sisler Real: .340/.378/.468 OOTP: .344/.383/.477 Tris Speaker Real: .345/.427/.500 OOTP: .342/.424/.486 Ted Williams Real: .344/.480/.634 OOTP: .344/.471/.623 Nap Lajoie Real: .338/.379/.467 OOTP: .343/.386/.481 Honus Wagner Real: .327/.390/.466 OOTP: .330/.394/.477 Stan Musial Real: .331/.415/.559 OOTP: .329/.411/.547 Joe Dimaggio Real: .325/.396/.579 OOTP: .328/.405/.573 Joe Sewell Real: .312/.389/.413 with 15.9 K per 1000 AB OOTP: .308/.382/.400 with 15.7 K per 1000 AB Jimmie Foxx Real: .325/.426/.609 OOTP: .324/.420/.602 Roberto Clemente Real: .317/.359/.475 OOTP: .318/.351/.468 Wade Boggs Real: .328/.415/.443 OOTP: .325/.407/.438 Hank Greenberg Real: .313/.410/.605 OOTP .317/.404/.602 Ichiro Suzuki Real: .311/.355/.402 OOTP: .316/.354/.410 Hank Aaron Real: .305/.374/.555 OOTP: .305/.368/.536 Willie Mays Real: .302/.384/.557 OOTP: .301/.380/.542 Albert Pujols Real: .296/.374/.544 OOTP: .296/.361/.531 Alex Rodriguez Real: .295/.380/.550 OOTP: .302/.384/.554 Paul Molitor Real: .306/.369/.448 OOTP: .304/.366/.443 Edgar Martinez Real: .312/.418/.515 OOTP: .311/.415/.514 Derek Jeter Real: .310/.377/.440 OOTP: .314/.386/.446 Joe Morgan Real: .271/.392/.427 OOTP: .273/.390/.415 Robin Yount Real: .285/.342/.430 OOTP: .288/.343/.429 Barry Larkin Real: .295/.371/.444 OOTP: .299/.375/.442 Lou Whitaker Real: .276/.363/.426 OOTP: .274/.365/.415 Johnny Bench Real: .267/.342/.476 OOTP: .270/.340/.474 Sal Bando Real: .254/.352/.408 OOTP: .260/.358/.406 Ralph Kiner Real: .279/.396/.548 OOTP: .279/.387/.537 Steve Finley Real: .271/.332/.442 OOTP: .273/.333/.449 Eric Davis Real: .269/.359/.482 OOTP: .270/.355/.481 Jason Kendall Real: .288/.366/.378 OOTP: .289/.367/.375 Buster Posey Real: .302/.372/.460 OOTP: .300/.372/.447 Ray Lankford Real: .272/.364/.477 OOTP: .272/.371/.479 George Grantham Real: .302/.391/.461 OOTP: .300/.389/.448 WHIP/HR per 9/BB per 9/K per 9 Nolan Ryan Real : 1.25/0.5/4.7/9.5 OOTP: 1.25/0.6/4.7/9.1 Randy Johnson Real : 1.17/0.9/3.3/10.6 OOTP: 1.20/0.8/3.4/10.0 Roger Clemens Real : 1.17/0.7/2.9/8.6 OOTP: 1.23/0.7/3.0/8.3 Steve Carlton Real : 1.25/0.7/3.2/7.1 OOTP: 1.29/0.6/3.2/7.2 Bert Blyleven Real : 1.20/0.8/2.4/6.7 OOTP: 1.27/0.8/2.6/6.7 Tom Seaver Real : 1.12/0.7/2.6/6.8 OOTP: 1.15/0.7/2.8/6.8 Don Sutton Real : 1.14/0.8/2.3/6.1 OOTP: 1.13/0.8/2.5/5.8 Gaylord Perry Real : 1.18/0.7/2.3/5.9 OOTP: 1.19/0.7/2.3/5.9 Walter Johnson Real: 1.06/0.1/2.1/5.3 OOTP: 1.14/0.2/2.4/4.9 Greg Maddux Real : 1.14/0.6/1.8/6.1 OOTP: 1.16/0.7/1.8/6.1 Max Scherzer Real : 1.08/1.0/2.4/10.7 OOTP: 1.08/1.0/2.5/10.5 Phil Niekro Real : 1.27/0.8/3.0/5.6 OOTP: 1.29/0.8/3.1/5.5 Justin Verlander Real : 1.12/0.9/2.5/9.0 OOTP: 1.17/0.9/2.9/9.3 Fergie Jenkins Real : 1.14/1.0/2.0/6.4 OOTP: 1.12/0.9/2.1/6.4 Pedro Martinez Real : 1.05/0.8/2.4/10.0 OOTP: 1.13/0.8/2.7/9.8 Bob Gibson Real : 1.19/0.6/3.1/7.2 OOTP: 1.18/0.6/3.1/7.5 Curth Schilling Real : 1.14/1.0/2.0/8.6 OOTP: 1.22/0.9/2.2/8.3 CC Sabathia Real : 1.26/1.0/2.8/7.8 OOTP: 1.32/0.9/3.0/7.3 John Smoltz Real : 1.18/0.7/2.6/8.0 OOTP: 1.23/0.7/2.7/7.7 Zack Greinke Real : 1.17/1.0/2.0/7.9 OOTP: 1.29/1.1/2.3/7.5 Clayton Kershaw Real : 1.00/0.7/2.2/9.8 OOTP: 1.08/0.9/2.5/9.1 Jim Bunning: Real : 1.18/0.9/2.4/6.8 OOTP: 1.24/0.8/2.4/6.7 Mickey Lolich Real : 1.23/0.9/2.7/7.0 OOTP: 1.19/0.7/2.7/6.8 Mike Mussina Real : 1.19/0.9/2.0/7.1 OOTP: 1.33/1.0/2.6/7.0 Cy Young Real : 1.13/0.2/1.5/3.4 OOTP: 1.18/0.2/1.7/3.4 Mariano Rivera Real : 1.00/0.5/2.0/8.2 OOTP: 1.01/0.6/2.3/8.0 34 players reached 500 HR (real is 28) 47 players reached 50+ HR in a season (real is 48) The 100th best HR season was 46 (real is 47) Top HR season was 69 (McGwire) and only McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds reached 60+ in a season. 21 pitchers reached 300 wins (24 real) Last edited by Garlon; 03-25-2024 at 05:11 PM.

03-25-2024, 04:35 PM	#91
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	It's interesting that data is being presented on how close the performance of the stars is to reality. The purpose of adjust/weaken is to control the output of low AB/IP players. The non adjusted players are involved only because of a design error where the effects of the changes in ratings due to the feature affect every player. The effects should have been confined to the pool of players being adjusted not spread over every player. What matters here is what the adjusted players are doing. I'd expect the performance of the stars to be closer to reality. After all, with an entry of 1000 ABs almost no one is adjusted.

03-25-2024, 04:45 PM	#92
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	I believe Scoman is playing with 5-year recalc, so I would expect that even if his results are on the money, he'd be referencing things like # of 50+ homerun hitters, number of 20+ game winners, and maybe more-generally, league totals as being very close. But there'd be no on-the-money comparisons to individual players, unless maybe you're talking totals for a career... and even that should vary somewhat... But I'll let Scoman speak for himself

03-25-2024, 05:00 PM	#93
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	The point of weaken/adjust is to prevent performance in real life largely due to chance from becoming the player's rating in OOTP. Those are the players to look at to evaluate it's effectiveness, not the stars. This data is barking up the wrong tree. What happens if you run Carl Taylor with no adjust? Does a manager (either human or AI) look at his ratings (he hit .348 in 1969) play him every day and let him win the batting championship? THAT is what adjust/weaken is supposed to address, not putting stars closer to their RL performances.

03-25-2024, 05:32 PM	#97
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	Garlon, you're missing the point of the feature. You've subverted it for your own purpose, which is to run tests to see how close the league and the stars perform to real life. And you tell people to use your settings without knowing how they play. The purpose of adjust/weaken is to prevent managers, human or AI, from gaming the ratings with players who by luck over performed what was realistic in a few ABs. By recommending your settings to everyone you are creating a bad situation for those who play the game as a GM or manager rather than testing it for the thrill of geting number close. It's the same thing with your insistence on using retire according to history. You ignore the people who actually play the game for whom retire according to history is an excuse to give an old player the huge mutli year contract he wants knowing the player will retire when he sucks and the team won't owe the money. You've given a lot of bad information over the years. Before you go on, maybe you should apologize for this recent fiasco you created (it must have been quite embarrassing for the devs to admit they don't know how the game works, and it's your fault that came out) and then maybe give it a break for a while and turn over a new leaf.

03-25-2024, 06:22 PM	#99
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	BradK, you can play the game however you want. I do play GM as well and get great results for all players not just star players. . You do not have to use RAH, but you must realize that when you turn it off but after a couple decades you will literally have thousands more active players than there were in any given season. There are only so many starting pitchers and so many starting SS in a league and many players are not going to play when you do that. This is totally fine as the game is a sandbox. The adjust/weaken is there for determining the sample size for AB and IP. You can use any values you want.

03-25-2024, 07:38 PM	#100
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	When you turn off retire according to history you get a lot of players on the free agent list. When the game runs the test of the LTMs it uses the players on the rosters. Those on the FA list are irrelevant. The human knows when players will retire. AI does not. A human doesn't need this help against AI. The error here is OOTP not bumping up the career ending injury rate when retire according to history is not selected. What's the point of being a GM and knowing exactly when someone will retire and that his output will be very close to historical even if he doesn't play in his historical parks?