Historical Game Adjust/Weaken settings AKA the Make Bad Setting

David Watts · 03-18-2024, 03:57 PM

Alright, down in a thread titled Ballpark Factors in the OOTP24 thread Garlon has pointed out that when playing historical using OOTP25 the way one enters the adjust/weaken settings has changed.

In the past a setting of 200/50 in for a 3 year recalc league meant a player had to get 600 at bats in order to avoid being adjusted, or 150 at bats to avoid being weakened.

This year instead of the adjust settings being multiplied by the number of recalc year, one can simply enter the settings of 600/150 to achieve the same thing.

My question is, why is this not being broadcast from rooftops or adverstised more? This seems like a huge deal that every person that uses recalc needs to know. Maybe the game needs to say in the wizard that the default setting 200/50 may work best for a 1 year recalc setup.

This is a huge change.

Reed · 03-18-2024, 04:18 PM

Yes, I am testing even higher setting than I have used in the past.
Right now for 3 year double weighted recalc I am testing 600/400 and 75/50 for pitchers. I may have to tone it down just a little. I am glad you can adjust it on the historical tab! Makes it a lot easier to check.

Brad K · 03-18-2024, 08:46 PM

Information on this feature should have been listed in the release notes in BOLD and explained in the game where the setting is made. To have the only notice being some posts by Garlon in one of the least read forums on the board in a thread where the subject was stumbled upon due to topic drift, well, we nearly weren't told at all. Very bad.

Jeff1787 · 03-18-2024, 09:14 PM

These are the default settings for a Historical Game with 5 yr recalc. I had planned on using these for my 1903 random debut league. Do I need to change the numbers; 200/50 and 25/10?

I would like to know before I get started.

LansdowneSt · 03-18-2024, 09:38 PM

Multiply by 5 if 5-year recalc. Don't worry about the "6th" year of double weighting current stats. It actually is more fair to rookies that way. So, looking at that set-up, it is x5.

Brad K · 03-18-2024, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Multiply by 5 if 5-year recalc. Don't worry about the "6th" year of double weighting current stats. It actually is more fair to rookies that way. So, looking at that set-up, it is x5.

When he selected 5 year why didn't OOTP show the x5 number in the boxes?

LansdowneSt · 03-18-2024, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

When he selected 5 year why didn't OOTP show the x5 number in the boxes?

Because an auto-multiplier to show the user wasn’t built in.

Brad K · 03-18-2024, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Because an auto-multiplier to show the user wasn’t built in.

It also doesn't show the correct numbers when the game is on the default of 3 year rating. Looks like these issues should be at the top of the critical fix list for the first patch.

Reed · 03-19-2024, 01:43 AM

It is also my understanding that the adjust/weaken IS NOT modified for the recalc period or double weighted setting. What you see is what you get.
I think Jeff above needs to set something like 1000/250 and 100/50. (just my rough estimate)

Also very bad players are also tweaked upward toward league average or replacement level. Don't know if it has always been that way but it is now.

It is an important issue IMO!

Maybe Matt can clarify.

David Watts · 03-19-2024, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

It is also my understanding that the adjust/weaken IS NOT modified for the recalc period or double weighted setting. What you see is what you get.
I think Jeff above needs to set something like 1000/250 and 100/50. (just my rough estimate)

Also very bad players are also tweaked upward toward league average or replacement level. Don't know if it has always been that way but it is now.

It is an important issue IMO!

Maybe Matt can clarify.

I was thinking the same thing in terms of Jeff's league, but I didn't want to throw out an answer and have it end up being wrong.

This is such a big change and it blows me away that the game has been out for 6+ days now and the only mention of it, is in a thread about ballpark factors in the OOTP24 historical forum. It wasn't even mentioned in the OOTP25 New Historical Features thread.

Brad K · 03-19-2024, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I was thinking the same thing in terms of Jeff's league, but I didn't want to throw out an answer and have it end up being wrong.

Why not? Lots of people do that! LOL. It could be the reason this thread exists.

Concerning Jeff's league, I think he shouldn't touch anything. The purpose of adjust/weaken is to not allow outlier ratings coming from stats where the sample size is not big enough to be reliable. Why would 200 ABs be reliable for a one year rating but reliability require 1000 ABs for a five year rating? There's no reason I can see for requiring more ABs It matters not a bit if a guy took 3 years or 5 years to get 200 ABs instead of doing it in one year.

Reed · 03-19-2024, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Why not? Lots of people do that! LOL. It could be the reason this thread exists.

Concerning Jeff's league, I think he shouldn't touch anything. The purpose of adjust/weaken is to not allow outlier ratings coming from stats where the sample size is not big enough to be reliable. Why would 200 ABs be reliable for a one year rating but reliability require 1000 ABs for a five year rating? There's no reason I can see for requiring more ABs It matters not a bit if a guy took 3 years or 5 years to get 200 ABs instead of doing it in one year.

It does matter in order to get good stat output from regular players, especially your better players. If your adjust/weaken setting is to low, It will water down the players above that setting. It will cause players stats to become more bunched toward league average. It also prevents someone with just 150 ABs IRL from becoming a full time player and leading your league in BA or HRs etc..

David Watts · 03-19-2024, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

It does matter in order to get good stat output from regular players, especially your better players. If your adjust/weaken setting is to low, It will water down the players above that setting. It will cause players stats to become more bunched toward league average. It also prevents someone with just 150 ABs IRL from becoming a full time player and leading your league in BA or HRs etc..

Thank you.

omg_pwnasaurus · 03-19-2024, 01:39 PM

I've always been sort of confused by these settings so I typically just hunted around the forums for what most people were using at the time.

If I'm playing historical, with dev on, no recalc, do these settings still matter and if so, what should be a good baseline to use for '25 iteration?

Also what does double weight of current year stats do in terms of if I start in 1983 historical with recalc off for example?

Thx. This screen always sort of flustered me.

Reed · 03-19-2024, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omg_pwnasaurus

I've always been sort of confused by these settings so I typically just hunted around the forums for what most people were using at the time.

If I'm playing historical, with dev on, no recalc, do these settings still matter and if so, what should be a good baseline to use for '25 iteration?

Also what does double weight of current year stats do in terms of if I start in 1983 historical with recalc off for example?

Thx. This screen always sort of flustered me.

With recalc off the double weight can be turned off. I have never played with recalc off so can’t answer other question. I guess you could take a player with about 50 or 100 ABs with good stats, change the adjust/weaken values and see if that changes his rating or expected outcomes in the player editor.

David Watts · 03-19-2024, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

With recalc off the double weight can be turned off. I have never played with recalc off so can’t answer other question. I guess you could take a player with about 50 or 100 ABs with good stats, change the adjust/weaken values and see if that changes his rating or expected outcomes in the player editor.

I never realized that the adjust weaken settings even factored in when not using recalc.

Reed · 03-19-2024, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I never realized that the adjust weaken settings even factored in when not using recalc.

I don’t think it does but I have never played with recalc off.

thehef · 03-19-2024, 07:21 PM

Trying to grasp the concept of how the settings work now...

Since I'm nearly exclusively a 1-year recalc player, I would not really have to worry about the changes to how the A/W settings now work. But if my preferred 1-year settings are 150/50/30/10 and I decide to do a 3-year recalc game, then I would probably be looking at settings of 450/150/90/30.

True statements?

fredbeene · 03-19-2024, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff1787

These are the default settings for a Historical Game with 5 yr recalc. I had planned on using these for my 1903 random debut league. Do I need to change the numbers; 200/50 and 25/10?

I would like to know before I get started.

lol - NOPE. No documentation, best practices, tool tips. 25 years
same guess work and wasted hours and fun 'experimenting'

fredbeene · 03-19-2024, 07:50 PM

why do you want to weaken a hitter with 50 AB if they already have poor stats
and how much does it weaken?

03-18-2024, 03:57 PM	#1
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,885 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Historical Game Adjust/Weaken settings AKA the Make Bad Setting Alright, down in a thread titled Ballpark Factors in the OOTP24 thread Garlon has pointed out that when playing historical using OOTP25 the way one enters the adjust/weaken settings has changed. In the past a setting of 200/50 in for a 3 year recalc league meant a player had to get 600 at bats in order to avoid being adjusted, or 150 at bats to avoid being weakened. This year instead of the adjust settings being multiplied by the number of recalc year, one can simply enter the settings of 600/150 to achieve the same thing. My question is, why is this not being broadcast from rooftops or adverstised more? This seems like a huge deal that every person that uses recalc needs to know. Maybe the game needs to say in the wizard that the default setting 200/50 may work best for a 1 year recalc setup. This is a huge change.

03-18-2024, 08:46 PM	#3
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	Information on this feature should have been listed in the release notes in BOLD and explained in the game where the setting is made. To have the only notice being some posts by Garlon in one of the least read forums on the board in a thread where the subject was stumbled upon due to topic drift, well, we nearly weren't told at all. Very bad. Last edited by Brad K; 03-19-2024 at 12:08 AM.

03-18-2024, 09:38 PM	#5
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 7,482	Multiply by 5 if 5-year recalc. Don't worry about the "6th" year of double weighting current stats. It actually is more fair to rookies that way. So, looking at that set-up, it is x5. __________________ Complete Universe Facegen Pack 2.0 (mine included) https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...k_2.0.zip/file Just my Facegen Pack: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi..._Pack.zip/file

03-19-2024, 01:43 AM	#9
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	It is also my understanding that the adjust/weaken IS NOT modified for the recalc period or double weighted setting. What you see is what you get. I think Jeff above needs to set something like 1000/250 and 100/50. (just my rough estimate) Also very bad players are also tweaked upward toward league average or replacement level. Don't know if it has always been that way but it is now. It is an important issue IMO! Maybe Matt can clarify. Last edited by Reed; 03-19-2024 at 01:57 AM.

03-18-2024, 04:18 PM	#2
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	Yes, I am testing even higher setting than I have used in the past. Right now for 3 year double weighted recalc I am testing 600/400 and 75/50 for pitchers. I may have to tone it down just a little. I am glad you can adjust it on the historical tab! Makes it a lot easier to check.

03-18-2024, 09:14 PM	#4
Jeff1787 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Doghouse Posts: 3,536	These are the default settings for a Historical Game with 5 yr recalc. I had planned on using these for my 1903 random debut league. Do I need to change the numbers; 200/50 and 25/10? I would like to know before I get started.

03-19-2024, 01:39 PM	#14
omg_pwnasaurus Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 351	I've always been sort of confused by these settings so I typically just hunted around the forums for what most people were using at the time. If I'm playing historical, with dev on, no recalc, do these settings still matter and if so, what should be a good baseline to use for '25 iteration? Also what does double weight of current year stats do in terms of if I start in 1983 historical with recalc off for example? Thx. This screen always sort of flustered me.

03-19-2024, 07:21 PM	#18
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	Trying to grasp the concept of how the settings work now... Since I'm nearly exclusively a 1-year recalc player, I would not really have to worry about the changes to how the A/W settings now work. But if my preferred 1-year settings are 150/50/30/10 and I decide to do a 3-year recalc game, then I would probably be looking at settings of 450/150/90/30. True statements?

03-19-2024, 07:50 PM	#20
fredbeene All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,624	why do you want to weaken a hitter with 50 AB if they already have poor stats and how much does it weaken?