How to create a monster team in OOTP 24?

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

So.... It creates the environment of the historical year but if the league talent doesn't match historical it doesn't hammer the players into historic norms. OOTP insisting on matching historical output even is talent differs is a big gripe of mine.

I have a suspicion that the test runs and adjustments are done because with all things historical the rating system can't produce historical output and has to be hammered into compliance. That would be quite sad.

I am unsure of what you mean in the second paragraph.

I also may have misinterpreted your first paragraph, and my last post me be agreeing with you.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by snepp

I'm curious how big the impact of the ratings revamp they've done will have in that department. I've never been much of a historical player, so have little to reference where the ratings-to-stats concerns are.

I have done a few fictionals over the years where I combined some vastly different pcm's and league totals for funsies, but typically start with some variation of a balanced modern day.

As for the recalc itself, I'll let it run at the start of the first few seasons to help account for the differences between initial creation players and the dev engine (I'm too lazy to sim out 25 years and delete history), but then I'll shut it off and let things buck for a decade or two.

Standardly I with OOTP I start by taking worst team and make them best within 2 years. After that it becomes about Editing players to Create monster teams with 100+ homers a game all around for a season or two. Then it becomes about simming a many year sim to create monster team and destroy records. with the best players in the game, trading them out when a major decline starts, all without adjusting any settings.

This whole post started because I've never played with/understand settings to adjust the game. I wanted help to see if others knew what settings to adjust to simply make 24 feel more realistic specifically when you've got monster team.

Thanks for post!

[Brad K]

I don't move saves to new versions of OOTP. The saves stays where it started. I only buy a new version when I'm ready to start a new save. Thus I haven't bought 24.

However the results on 23 with historical lineups and transactions and unadjusted modifiers are off to a bad start.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I don't move saves to new versions of OOTP. The saves stays where it started. I only buy a new version when I'm ready to start a new save. Thus I haven't bought 24.

However the results on 23 with historical lineups and transactions and unadjusted modifiers are off to a bad start.

hahahhahahahhahahha. This whole time I thought you had already played 24, and was disproving my points. hahahahahhahahhahahh... I have no idea what 23 is like. I just know that 21, 18,17, it was very easy to have monster teams that destroy the league repeatedly, simply by putting all the best players on the same team. 24 those best players get wrecked by the 2024 Oakland Athletics. ahahahahha.

I haven't played with modifiers or know their significance for matching players ratings to their stats. As I've never needed to before. The game just let me do what I wanted it to do.

Thanks for posting.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

hahahhahahahhahahha. This whole time I thought you had already played 24, and was disproving my points. hahahahahhahahhahahh...

I don't have to play 24 to dispute your points. Over several years I've seen the devs repeat the purity vow of randomness and refuse to even consider a floor and ceiling on performance. It came out they are so against floors and ceilings that they under rate some players on HRs to make it less likely they'll exceed in OOTP what they did in a career year.

This wasn't done in the exe. It was a data base fix. What purports to be Real Stats isn't Real Stats. It's more like Real Staz made with real stats like Cheez Whiz is made with real cheese. Fortunately Real Statz has a higher percentage of real stats then Cheez Whiz has of real cheese. But neither are real.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I don't have to play 24 to dispute your points. Over several years I've seen the devs repeat the purity vow of randomness and refuse to even consider a floor and ceiling on performance. It came out they are so against floors and ceilings that they under rate some players on HRs to make it less likely they'll exceed in OOTP what they did in a career year.

This wasn't done in the exe. It was a data base fix. What purports to be Real Stats isn't Real Stats. It's more like Real Staz made with real stats like Cheez Whiz is made with real cheese. Fortunately Real Statz has a higher percentage of real stats then Cheez Whiz has of real cheese. But neither are real.

I enjoy this post but have no idea if you agree with me or disagree with me. It seems the way its worded that it might be both at the same time, but I maybe misunderstanding. The second paragraph reminds me of a Yogi Berra quote. I'm completely lost. Outside from the real stats aren't actually real stats. But don't know what you mean by real stats.

I do know there is very much a ceiling when it comes to the standard game of OOTP 24 without adjusting settings. This post I've talked about it a bunch.

Another example I did a while ago. I edited a team where every single player has ever single rating maxed out the offense max out at 30-40 runs. Even after all the pitchers get tired and their LF starts pitching, the LF shuts out the my 100% rating lineup for innings. The game caps how much I can destroy a team in a game. The pitching has no problems having 10 straight perfect games with 27 strikeouts each game, but the offense is limited (ceiling).

Now I've heard people have adjusted settings where they can score over 100 Runs in a game, but the score was still less than 40 run difference. (Haven't tested this but will shortly). A team can score more without adjusting settings, or higher differential, but in that scenerio I would be the losing team being shut out 80 to 0 because my team sucks. So me as a losing team can lose 80-0, but my team could not win 80-0 (again, I'm going to try to raise the league Runs by a lot to see if this allows my perfect team to score more, but still completely shut out the opposing team.

Thanks for post!

[Samueltbaum]

I adjusted the modifier to make league average .500 with half of the hits being home runs. Best game I had was 54-0, but nothing was even close to this, there were some games I won 2-1, with a perfect team.

This is better than the 40 runs I could only score before, but no other game outside of the 54 even came close. I think 32 was the next closest.

Along with this, my overall batting stats were decreased from the previous year, even though setting was designed to increase stats for the league. Every other team increased their stats, while mine decreased.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

Is there any way to have a league where the league does not modify players stats to match the total expected league stats? I'm not trying to modify league stats, I'm trying to have no limit on league stats.

If I emulate 2015 season (example), I'd likely (hypothesis) still be limited because the league has pre expected season totals.

This may have been a thing in previous versions of the game. I just never experienced it before. In previous verisons a team full of 85+ eye would regularly if not always have a team OBP of .400+. In this game their OBP is .375. Power 85+ players in previous versions continuously have 45+ homer seasons ever year. Not 32 or less like in 24.

Thanks Again!

Kind of.

The engine is built on the relationship between League Totals and player ratings.

There is not a way to eliminate League Totals, so you need to set those numbers to the general statistical environment you are looking for.

Now, it is certainly possible for the ratings in the league to skew those league totals if they aren't balanced to what OOTP is expecting.

That is why Auto-Calc is available. It essentially looks at your League Totals and your league's Player Ratings and adjusts the "modifiers" to produce the overall output in your League Totals. It does the opposite of what you are wanting as it is going to reign in all of the extra 80 players you added.

In order to get the results you are looking for I think you would want to run Auto-Calc BEFORE adding all of your edited players. That would mean they wouldn't be included in the balancing calculations. If you then make your edits/additions and have your league play out without utilizing the Auto-Calc option going forward from that point the game shouldn't be compressing things.

If you have run Auto-Calc AFTER making your super-players then the compression has already happened.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

I do know there is very much a ceiling when it comes to the standard game of OOTP 24 without adjusting settings. This post I've talked about it a bunch.

Maybe it's a situation of formulas that work in the middle of the range don't work at the extremes. If you think it's intentional then go to all the threads where the devs have stated their commitment to randomness and those where they have refused to consider floors and ceilings and post "you lie."

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Maybe it's a situation of formulas that work in the middle of the range don't work at the extremes. If you think it's intentional then go to all the threads where the devs have stated their commitment to randomness and those where they have refused to consider floors and ceilings and post "you lie."

I am intrigued. I won't say you lie, simply because their may be a setting I'm completely missing. But it may help answer my questions.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Kind of.

The engine is built on the relationship between League Totals and player ratings.

There is not a way to eliminate League Totals, so you need to set those numbers to the general statistical environment you are looking for.

Now, it is certainly possible for the ratings in the league to skew those league totals if they aren't balanced to what OOTP is expecting.

That is why Auto-Calc is available. It essentially looks at your League Totals and your league's Player Ratings and adjusts the "modifiers" to produce the overall output in your League Totals. It does the opposite of what you are wanting as it is going to reign in all of the extra 80 players you added.

In order to get the results you are looking for I think you would want to run Auto-Calc BEFORE adding all of your edited players. That would mean they wouldn't be included in the balancing calculations. If you then make your edits/additions and have your league play out without utilizing the Auto-Calc option going forward from that point the game shouldn't be compressing things.

If you have run Auto-Calc AFTER making your super-players then the compression has already happened.

My indoor time is about to decrease significantly, much more outdoorsyness, so my interest to keep trying is decreasing. Since I can go back to OOTP 21 and do what I want to there. But I was initially hoping to get it out of the newer version with little effort. I've put a whole lot of effort into this, that I had never needed to with previous versions. If I try again, this will be the first thing I try! Thank you for this!

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Maybe it's a situation of formulas that work in the middle of the range don't work at the extremes. If you think it's intentional then go to all the threads where the devs have stated their commitment to randomness and those where they have refused to consider floors and ceilings and post "you lie."

Do you know what specific thread this might be in? There are so many threads posted every day, trying to find one is like a needle in a haystack. I searched commitment to randomness, and it didn't seem any of the titles would be what I was looking for.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

I am intrigued. I won't say you lie, simply because their may be a setting I'm completely missing. But it may help answer my questions.

How can I lie when the statement starts "maybe?" It's pure speculation. However, it's known that there are things that fail under extreme conditions.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

Do you know what specific thread this might be in? There are so many threads posted every day, trying to find one is like a needle in a haystack. I searched commitment to randomness, and it didn't seem any of the titles would be what I was looking for.

It is difficult to find the specific posts where devs iterated their pledge to randomness and said they didn't use caps or floors. Those few posts are somewhere in the multiple and lengthy threads discussion players being under rated for home runs when they had atypically high real life performance in a year.

Here are some threads on the subject of data base manipulation as a dev's choice over having ceilings. It will be interesting reading for you and somewhere in the hundreds of posts might be one from a dev stating what the posters in these threads acknowledge: randomness rules.

You will probably also be amused by the people who find ways to defend the game no matter what the facts are against them! LOL.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=346122

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331438


Lots of acknowledgements of randomness and no ceilings in this one.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331048

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331958

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

How can I lie when the statement starts "maybe?" It's pure speculation. However, it's known that there are things that fail under extreme conditions.

Sorry, I was simply responding to you post.... I wouldn't tell the devs "you lie". I don't know the last time I've told anyone that they lie. There is always a different perspective.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

It is difficult to find the specific posts where devs iterated their pledge to randomness and said they didn't use caps or floors. Those few posts are somewhere in the multiple and lengthy threads discussion players being under rated for home runs when they had atypically high real life performance in a year.

Here are some threads on the subject of data base manipulation as a dev's choice over having ceilings. It will be interesting reading for you and somewhere in the hundreds of posts might be one from a dev stating what the posters in these threads acknowledge: randomness rules.

You will probably also be amused by the people who find ways to defend the game no matter what the facts are against them! LOL.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=346122

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331438


Lots of acknowledgements of randomness and no ceilings in this one.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331048

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331958

I experience people who defend the game strongly. Some have said that what I'm experiencing isn't actually happening, or I need a larger sample size even though I've simmed 20 seasons.

I very much defend things, but only primarily if someone is attacking. I much more enjoy discussion with no attack or defense, Communication is key in life for success.

Thanks for those, i'll take a skim through. I appreciate it!

[Brad K]

You'll see instances of people defending the game via personal attacks rather than trying to refute the facts presented.

Maybe in your skim you'll find some devs posts. There are only a few and I can't even say they're in these threads.

Garlon created the current neutralized data base so you can consider him to post with the credibility of a dev on issued concerning that database. However you'll note some avoidance of some questions.

[jcard]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

I experience people who defend the game strongly. Some have said that what I'm experiencing isn't actually happening, or I need a larger sample size even though I've simmed 20 seasons.

I very much defend things, but only primarily if someone is attacking. I much more enjoy discussion with no attack or defense, Communication is key in life for success.

Thanks for those, i'll take a skim through. I appreciate it!

Quite frankly, I credit the forbearance and patience you have displayed. You have been confronted with a great deal “knowledge” that—setting aside questions of soundness—is at best of secondary and often peripheral or even non-existent importance to what at its core is a very simple question:

“I did something in v21 and consistently attained a certain result. I did the same thing in v24 and consistently attained a certain distinctly different result. Why?”

I didn’t have an answer for you when you first asked. After reading pages of feedback, I know that I am no closer to possessing one. I imagine it is doubly frustrating for you.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Brad K

It is difficult to find the specific posts where devs iterated their pledge to randomness and said they didn't use caps or floors. Those few posts are somewhere in the multiple and lengthy threads discussion players being under rated for home runs when they had atypically high real life performance in a year.

Here are some threads on the subject of data base manipulation as a dev's choice over having ceilings. It will be interesting reading for you and somewhere in the hundreds of posts might be one from a dev stating what the posters in these threads acknowledge: randomness rules.

You will probably also be amused by the people who find ways to defend the game no matter what the facts are against them! LOL.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=346122

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331438


Lots of acknowledgements of randomness and no ceilings in this one.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331048

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331958

Seems discussions like this have gone on for years. hahahah. I read a bunch on the 24 thread discussing HR records, the others were before 24 wasn't too interested in previous games, as I wasn't experiencing my dilemna in previous versions.

Thanks for the post though. Some people do get very aggressive in the posts.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by jcard

Quite frankly, I credit the forbearance and patience you have displayed. You have been confronted with a great deal “knowledge” that—setting aside questions of soundness—is at best of secondary and often peripheral or even non-existent importance to what at its core is a very simple question:

Is it really a question? The OP has a theory that the game penalizes strong teams and thus is not random. He's asking for support for that theory.

The theory is not consistent with the dev's stated commitment to randomness and refusal to implement performance caps.