Negro League Rules?

[thehef]

In test league that includes historical minors, I have the following settings under League Settings > Rules:

- MLB: Color Barrier = enabled
- Negro League: Negro League Rules = enabled
- All other minor leagues: Negro League Rules = enabled

My intention is to have Negro League players playing in the Negro League. However, the leaderboards for the PCL, IL, etc., are filled with Negro League players.

Am I misunderstanding the use of these fields, and/or missing some other settings? Or is this a bug?

BTW, I am in 1932 and this has been going on the whole time, since the beginning of my sim; IOW, it's not a new development.

[luckymann]

AFAIK, there is no way to keep these guys within the NeL. They are simply minor league players able to play anywhere the color bar is OFF.

I don't have a pre-1945 game going at the moment - is there perhaps the ability to enable the color bar for all minor leagues other than the NeL? If so, that should keep them where you want them, shouldn't it?

G

[thehef]

Originally Posted by luckymann

AFAIK, there is no way to keep these guys within the NeL. They are simply minor league players able to play anywhere the color bar is OFF.

If the settings I noted above - the color bar is ON everywhere - aren't intended to do just that, then what are they intended to do?

Originally Posted by luckymann

... is there perhaps the ability to enable the color bar for all minor leagues other than the NeL?

I believe that would be this one, below...

Originally Posted by thehef

- MLB: Color Barrier = enabled
- Negro League: Negro League Rules = enabled
- All other minor leagues: Negro League Rules = enabled

Originally Posted by luckymann

If so, that should keep them where you want them, shouldn't it?

I'm thinking that, yes, it should. But it is not.

[congokurtz]

I also had the same problem. Same settings as thehef and I was getting black players in the minor leagues. In my case they were going to the Texas League in the early 1920s. I even had players from the NeL getting into the Texas League that I would have to move over manually

[luckymann]

I was unaware that the Negro Rules toggle segregated players by colour. I thought they invoked some other league rules, although I had no idea what those might have been.

Perhaps I should just be quiet and stop talking out of my you know what...

G

[thehef]

Anybody else have any success - or lack thereof - with Negro League Rules / the Color Barrier settings?

[LansdowneSt]

I thought that all minor leagues were driven by the MLB rule color line toggle unless you turned on the Negro Leagues Rules in a given MiLB which has the effect of making it so only Black and Hispanic players are admitted. In a standard historic set-up isn't only the NeL MiLB defaulting to the NeL Rule toggle being on? You manually turned the others - like the Texas League - on, correct?

I'm not sure it knows which league segregated which people. I think the MiLB NeL Rule toggle just equates to a "Reverse Color Line" to override the default of following the prevailing MLB rule toggle. So, turning it on for the Texas League might be doing the opposite of what you want.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=279497

[No Pepper]

Did anyone confirm this?

I have attempted to rectify this in custom setup by creating a duplicate USA country for the negro leagues and using the foreigner settings to limit player movement. Although I think this only gets around the fact that the color barrier is "not an option in fictional leagues", correct?

Another thing I've noticed....I've been trying to test my soon-to-be-released Negro League uniform set that follows OOTP's structure evolution and noticed in 1920 (and other select years) that a "dummy" 10th team is created with no city, no name, no logo, etc. It appears in the schedule and the roster is populated and behaves like a normal team. The season progresses without issue otherwise.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by No Pepper

Did anyone confirm this?

I have attempted to rectify this in custom setup by creating a duplicate USA country for the negro leagues and using the foreigner settings to limit player movement. Although I think this only gets around the fact that the color barrier is "not an option in fictional leagues", correct?

Another thing I've noticed....I've been trying to test my soon-to-be-released Negro League uniform set that follows OOTP's structure evolution and noticed in 1920 (and other select years) that a "dummy" 10th team is created with no city, no name, no logo, etc. It appears in the schedule and the roster is populated and behaves like a normal team. The season progresses without issue otherwise.

I wonder why they did that. There is no such dummy team in OOTP23 in the 1920 NeL.

[No Pepper]

I think its a result of multiple database slip ups in milbteams.csv. From what I read from you guys, that's been a common issue with the player databases as well.

[thehef]

It's a result of an incomplete team listed in the milbteams.csv file... I believe what's happening is this:

Beginning with OOTP 24 there were a lot of things changed with the source files for minor league players. In the end, these changes necessitated the inclusion in the milbteams.csv of many minor league teams that don't appear in OOTP (pre-1919 teams, for example). The purpose of this was to keep stats lines associated with player-years, as opposed to floating around. Sort of a back-end housekeeping thing that I'm aware of but can't really explain in detail . At any rate, for creating leagues & structure in OOTP, these add'l team lines in milbteams.csv are ignored by OOTP because the milbleagues.csv file does not have corresponding league entries for these. IOW, while the milbTEAMS.csv file includes entries for the 1910 PCL, International League, and American Assoc, the milbLEAGUES.csv file does not include these leagues, so OOTP ignores these 1910 team lines.

However... the incomplete 1920 Negro League team is probably one of those that is supposed to be ignored. But since the 1920 Negro League exists in milbleagues.csv, thus we have the problem: OOTP tries to include the team. I believe the quick solution would be to remove the incomplete entry in milbteams.csv, or to edit the incomplete entry so it's complete (and then you'll have a 10-team NeLg rather than a 9-team one).

I'm gonna do some add'l testing on this... Hopefully Lukas will weight in here because I'm near certain he'll be able to confirm or correct my findings & assumptions, and come up with the solution

[LansdowneSt]

Thanks, hef. I put it in tracker so tag on to it what you find.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Thanks, hef. I put it in tracker so tag on to it what you find.

Aye aye, cap!

[thehef]

Originally Posted by thehef

I believe the quick solution would be to remove the incomplete entry in milbteams.csv, or to edit the incomplete entry so it's complete (and then you'll have a 10-team NeLg rather than a 9-team one).

Note re the above: If anyone tries this by editing the milbteams.csv file, please note that this will only work if you start your league prior to the 1920 season. This is because at initial game creation, OOTP does not directly reference the csv files for league creation; OOTP only references those files for subsequent seasons.