2023 World Baseball Classic

[Westheim]

If Chinese Taipei keeps beating the Dutch like this, the entire group could still finish all even at 2-2 tomorrow.

I want that. I live for chaos.

Don't ask me about any tie-breakers there

[wbcfan]

I'm building a WBC roster for MLB the show using OOTP ratings. Does anyone know where I can search for player ratings without owning the game? For example, MLB the Show has its own website where you can search for updated player ratings without actually owning the game. Was wondering if OOTP had something similar. Thanks.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by Westheim

If Chinese Taipei keeps beating the Dutch like this, the entire group could still finish all even at 2-2 tomorrow.

I want that. I live for chaos.

Don't ask me about any tie-breakers there

So you're saying.... forza Italia! I guess they just make a big tic tac toe chart to list who beats who? This is an obvious byproduct of a one game round robin in a four team pool, we veteran tournament builders know better

One game round robins are random but Panama and Taiwan really rallied, I'm glad they didn't just fade away especially for the home crowd. Taichung is really showing off!

[Westheim]

If they're all even, head-to-head doesn't matter, and then it says the tie-breaker will be earned run rate per innings pitched.

No, I haven't done the math on it.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by Westheim

If they're all even, head-to-head doesn't matter, and then it says the tie-breaker will be earned run rate per innings pitched.

No, I haven't done the math on it.

I never understand these kind of finicky tiebreakers, they may as well just toss coins. Or play a one-day jamboree just like little league

I found a stream on YT of VEN-DR, what a fabulous crowd.

[Westheim]

(stupid grin)

Now, I don't know why Cuba is said to advance here. IN THEORY, the Dutch and Italians could play 21 innings and Italy win 1-0 for those two to advance, no?

[Westheim]

Actually, Wikipedia had it wrong all the time. The first tie-breaker (after head-to-head, which is irrelevant if they are all 2-2) is:

The tied teams shall be ranked in the standings according to the lowest quotient of fewest runs allowed divided by the number of defensive outs recorded in the games in that round between the teams tied.

Lemme open my Excel real quick, boys.

(nerds around a bit)

If Italy wins 1-0 by a walkoff in the 12th inning or later, then BOTH Italy and the Netherlands advance!

But if they hit a walkoff *slam* in the 12th, then Italy and Cuba advance.

[Westheim]

Well, with Italy up 6-1 by now, the point about Cuba not advancing is moot. Italy has to keep the Dutch at a distance though, and if it becomes a scorefest, then Panama can still sneak by both of them.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Actually, Wikipedia had it wrong all the time. The first tie-breaker (after head-to-head, which is irrelevant if they are all 2-2) is:



Lemme open my Excel real quick, boys.

(nerds around a bit)

If Italy wins 1-0 by a walkoff in the 12th inning or later, then BOTH Italy and the Netherlands advance!

But if they hit a walkoff *slam* in the 12th, then Italy and Cuba advance.

Nobody can root for this. Nobody. I doubt anyone but you had done the math beforehand! I'm glad Italia advances but I don't get why they should over the Dutch or Panama, for that matter, that won just as many games including...Italia

[PocketsAintFull]

Great Britain wiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnn

[Syd Thrift]

Honkball is dead long live honkball

[kq76]

I am really enjoying watching the highlights of these games on Youtube, especially that Ven-DR game! I don't even really care about the Canadian team, I'm rooting for several teams.

I'm glad they expanded it to 20 teams as well (thanks DB, for posting that qualification bracket). I think I would have thought that it was pointless or worse before (I don't like hockey tournaments where the really good teams destroy the inept teams), but I'm just enjoying the more games. Even the teams you don't expect much from are playing respectably at times (Nicaragua may go winless, but based on the highlights they don't look bad). It'd be great for baseball if China can one day turn their fortunes around.

I wonder if they'll ever go past 1 game matches. A best of 3 past the pool stage would be great. Even 2 games against each team in the pool stage. I understand, it's probably not realistic during ST, I'm just enjoying it. And it seems the fans (of at least some teams) are really enjoying it.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by kq76

I'm glad they expanded it to 20 teams as well (thanks DB, for posting that qualification bracket). I think I would have thought that it was pointless or worse before (I don't like hockey tournaments where the really good teams destroy the inept teams), but I'm just enjoying the more games. Even the teams you don't expect much from are playing respectably at times (Nicaragua may go winless, but based on the highlights they don't look bad). It'd be great for baseball if China can one day turn their fortunes around.

I wonder if they'll ever go past 1 game matches. A best of 3 past the pool stage would be great. Even 2 games against each team in the pool stage. I understand, it's probably not realistic during ST, I'm just enjoying it. And it seems the fans (of at least some teams) are really enjoying it.

The highlight reels are well done, and fast! Especially for the Asian pools it was great to fire up the coffee and spend an hour watching what happened the night before. It kind of makes up for the games almost all being available only on FS.

I'm of two minds about the pools and the number of games, obviously they have to cram it in this window to get any major leaguers to play. But like you say even Nicaragua looks decent, and even Grea (sic) Britain won a game. But should Croatia or Germany or whoever be left out because they goofed in a qualifier last year? I'm not sure six team pools would have had more chaff in them.

And it's definitely a shame that Netherlands/Taiwan/Panama went .500 and have to go home because of math. The Netherlands (Antilles) team especially had a lot of punch even if their pitching was iffy. Anyway so far so fun!

[kq76]

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

I'm of two minds about the pools and the number of games, obviously they have to cram it in this window to get any major leaguers to play. But like you say even Nicaragua looks decent, and even Grea (sic) Britain won a game. But should Croatia or Germany or whoever be left out because they goofed in a qualifier last year? I'm not sure six team pools would have had more chaff in them.

I'm not sure if you're saying you think it should be expanded further or not. I'd like to see 24. If they did, I'd prefer if the teams that finished last in their pools this time didn't auto-qualify and they had to go back into qualifying (all of the last WBC's teams auto-qualified for this one). I'd think that the more countries involved, the bigger deal baseball would become in those lower ranked countries. Maybe the best part of all this is watching the fans of the teams celebrating every little play.

I looked it up and the 2 teams that are ranked in the top 20 according to the WBSC that aren't in this WBC are Germany and Spain. I'd definitely like to see those 2 countries be included, if they qualified of course, as well as France and Brazil. And China probably doesn't deserve to auto-qualify at this time. Looking at that qualifying bracket I liked imagining how those games played out. Expanding it was great. I had no idea those 4 countries were decent at baseball.

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

And it's definitely a shame that Netherlands/Taiwan/Panama went .500 and have to go home because of math. The Netherlands (Antilles) team especially had a lot of punch even if their pitching was iffy. Anyway so far so fun!

I agree! I would have enjoyed seeing more of all 3 of those teams, especially Taiwan and Panama as I think they played better than expected. I live in an area that is dominated by Italians and it's cool seeing them rally behind their teams, but I was actually kind of disappointed that Cuba and Italy got through over Taiwan (the highlight video on Yu Chang is very cool) and Panama.

I read the post here where someone was trying to figure out the tiebreakers. That hurt just reading it. How does the World Cup (soccer) do it? Would that be better?

[BBGiovanni]

Yes, I think one more team per pool would have helped include more countries and probably not have degraded play. And ensured a whole pool didn't finish with the same record I don't think the WBSC rankings are perfect since the WBC roster rules are weird, but Spain and Germany would probably make sense. I don't know there's any inherent logic in 5 team pools when they could have easily done 6 team (and had an odd number of games).

The World Cup has 4 team pools, so they play an odd number of games which helps. And tgey give points, 3 for a win and one for ties. Then there are a bunch of tiebreakers mostly involving goals and differentials, and one for "fair play" that tallies yellow/red cards. The 8th tiebreaker is drawing lots. Not perfectly applicable but at least not "play an even number of games and then get out the slide rule".

[Westheim]

Yoenis Cespedes leaves Cuba's WBC team for personal reasons

It's just always something with that guy...

[Cod]

Good luck Mets fans...Edwin Diaz carted off in a wheelchair from celebrating too hard. Hope it's not too serious.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Cod

Good luck Mets fans...Edwin Diaz carted off in a wheelchair from celebrating too hard. Hope it's not too serious.

As Mets as it gets.

(calmly attaches the rope to the prepared hook in the ceiling)

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Cod

Good luck Mets fans...Edwin Diaz carted off in a wheelchair from celebrating too hard. Hope it's not too serious.

This is rough in that, although nobody is saying it outright, apparently his own teammates injured him.*

*Meaning, he didn't do it to himself, jumping up and down or such.

EDIT: I am speculating, but we may see ballclubs and MLB looking to clamp down on participating in tournaments like the WBC.

[Syd Thrift]

Who was that NFL kicker who tore his ACL celebrating back in the day? Automatica?