Competitive balance discussion - Page 18

BPS · 12-01-2018, 12:12 AM

The above are all pikers. The leader of my league has two 100s and two in the 90s. Their reserve roster has five 80s and three 70s. On their reserve roster is someone who is better than my best player.

Westheim · 12-01-2018, 12:58 AM

Last time I checked, MLB awarded 1.0 wins regardless of whether you beat the Orioles or the Yankees.

Westheim · 12-01-2018, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Gustafson

And we are just plankton?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoofe

I prefer the term "minnows"

I doubt that when you see Mr. Trump, Mr. Zuckerberg, or Mr. Musk on the news or somewhere else you fall into a depression and call yourself someone else's dinner, so why do you do it over your baseball player cards in a computer game …?

Seriously, people, these… "length comparisons" are getting tiresome...

Fyrestorm3 · 12-01-2018, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

Sorry. If you want rewards you need to pummel crap teams.

Sigh.

You are just as capable of earning points against the best team in the league as you are against the worst. Other than winning streaks and the like, points aren't awarded for team performances, only individual player performances.

Your hitter can get 4 hits off Roger Clemens. Your pitcher can strike out 10 against a team with Ruth, Bonds, and Judge. This literally happens in real life all the time. It's how baseball works.

Maddox · 12-01-2018, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Sigh.

You are just as capable of earning points against the best team in the league as you are against the worst. Other than winning streaks and the like, points aren't awarded for team performances, only individual player performances.

Your hitter can get 4 hits off Roger Clemens. Your pitcher can strike out 10 against a team with Ruth, Bonds, and Judge. This literally happens in real life all the time. It's how baseball works.

There are a few team achievements but mainly on the offensive side. I get 6 hits in an inning every now and again and every starter getting a hit is another. They are not big point earners but they are there.

damientheomen3 · 12-01-2018, 01:26 AM

Oh hey, I recognize the Outer Banks Aviators from an online league. Who's the manager for that team?

whobob · 12-01-2018, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Sigh.

You are just as capable of earning points against the best team in the league as you are against the worst. Other than winning streaks and the like, points aren't awarded for team performances, only individual player performances.

Your hitter can get 4 hits off Roger Clemens. Your pitcher can strike out 10 against a team with Ruth, Bonds, and Judge. This literally happens in real life all the time. It's how baseball works.

No pitcher has ever struck out 10 against a team with Ruth, Bonds, and Judge. This has literally never happened in real life at all, ever.

It's possible to get 4 hits off of Clemens. That doesn't change the fact that it's more likely to happen against pitchers who have never even been considered for a Cy Young. Teams with good players do tend to win more often in baseball.

One Post Wonder · 12-01-2018, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Your hitter can get 4 hits off Roger Clemens. Your pitcher can strike out 10 against a team with Ruth, Bonds, and Judge. This literally happens in real life all the time. It's how baseball works.

Yes, but your hitter is a lot more likely to get 4 hits against Hal Brown. And your pitcher is a lot more likely to strike out 10 against a team with Dave Kingman, Rob Deer, and Adam Dunn. It really is not a completely random thing.

Why am I explaining this again? We both know full well this is a waste of time. Maybe the OP can communicate the idea better than I can. I'm going to bed.

The Melancholic · 12-01-2018, 03:34 AM

There will never be any kind of collectibles game without people whining about "pay to win." These sorts of games are popular because they appeal to people for a wide variety of casual and serious players depending on what you want out of them, but one group they don't appeal to is ultracompetitive people who think they're entitled to be able to win at any game they try, and think it's "unfair" if they're at any disadvantage.

This isn't to say that PT shouldn't always be evaluating its monetization model to strike a good balance; I happen to think it's pretty aggressive right now, but I'm optimistic that will change in OOTP20 with daily tournaments and other games that reward people for frequent participation.

Whoofe · 12-01-2018, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

I doubt that when you see Mr. Trump, Mr. Zuckerberg, or Mr. Musk on the news or somewhere else you fall into a depression and call yourself someone else's dinner, so why do you do it over your baseball player cards in a computer game …?

Seriously, people, these… "length comparisons" are getting tiresome...

I know I was joking and pretty sure the other guy was too

daves · 12-01-2018, 09:02 AM

I just posted and found it funny. The team average player rating is 25-30 points higher than mine. It's like a low level college team beating a MLB team when both teams want to win. And the response is, go beat up on a little league team and we will reward you. Beat the big boys who cares. lol.

Fyrestorm3 · 12-01-2018, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whobob

No pitcher has ever struck out 10 against a team with Ruth, Bonds, and Judge. This has literally never happened in real life at all, ever.

Yes, go ahead and take my argument literally, well done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whobob

It's possible to get 4 hits off of Clemens. That doesn't change the fact that it's more likely to happen against pitchers who have never even been considered for a Cy Young. Teams with good players do tend to win more often in baseball.

Nowhere did I say it was exactly the same probability against every pitcher. Better teams tend to win more on the average, obviously, but a 100-win team will have 64 losses. A 20-win pitcher isn't going to be undefeated. That's the nature of the game.

Getting long-winded on this topic is ridiculous, because if you dont understand this, you don't understand baseball.

Daves, not really directed at you. Congrats on the shutout. ...Actually, to make this post a bit more constructive, I feel like a shutout victory should be worth a couple of PP, no?

Fyrestorm3 · 12-01-2018, 11:30 AM

Between the Promotion/Relegation system, and the fact that I can leave the game for a month, have my team continue playing, and come back to a good haul of PP, I would even argue that PT is far more fair to the F2P players than most other F2P games out there.

Also, we have 20 years of experience showing us that OOTPD is willing to tinker with and improve their game every year, and I am positive the same thing will happen with PT.

Good post, well said.

Dogberry99 · 12-01-2018, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Actually, to make this post a bit more constructive, I feel like a shutout victory should be worth a couple of PP, no?

I think a small reward for a team shutout (as opposed to an individual player recording the shutout) could really help correct the appearance of a disparity between offense and pitching/defense with regards to point earning potential. Something like 10 points would not be much - it probably wouldn't even offset any real disparities - but it would help tone down our perception of a disparity.

One Post Wonder · 12-01-2018, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Actually, to make this post a bit more constructive, I feel like a shutout victory should be worth a couple of PP, no?

That's a good idea. Maybe one of those minor 20 point achievements. There seems to be an imbalance between defensive and offensive achievements anyway, so this wouldn't do anything but help.

Good. Maybe we can come away from this with everyone in agreement and a real idea as a result. I wish every thread went in this direction.

Coltrane · 12-01-2018, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves

I just beat a stacked team 6-0 and no reward?

This should get something?

Yeah. On 6/26 you kicked my butt too lol (Woonsocket Blackstones). I'm hoping for revenge in August

Coltrane · 12-01-2018, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

Oh hey, I recognize the Outer Banks Aviators from an online league. Who's the manager for that team?

TKHankins is the manager and the team is absolutely insane!

Kushiel · 12-01-2018, 02:45 PM

Beat him 21-0 and you will get an achievement. Your 6-0 win was just like any other win.

Coltrane · 12-01-2018, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves

I just beat a stacked team 6-0 and no reward?

This should get something?

Yes!!! I just knocked him down too

stl jason · 12-01-2018, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

That's a good idea. Maybe one of those minor 20 point achievements. There seems to be an imbalance between defensive and offensive achievements anyway, so this wouldn't do anything but help.

Good. Maybe we can come away from this with everyone in agreement and a real idea as a result. I wish every thread went in this direction.

I'd be good with that... you already get 100 points for a shutout if your pitcher goes the distance and does it himself... a shutout-by-committee is still a shutout, but since it took multiple pitchers, I could see getting only 10 or 20 points for it.

(maybe we can also get points for a team-effort no hitter.... whether you win or lose... sorry Charlie Morton

)

12-01-2018, 12:12 AM	#341
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 722	The above are all pikers. The leader of my league has two 100s and two in the 90s. Their reserve roster has five 80s and three 70s. On their reserve roster is someone who is better than my best player. Attached Images

12-01-2018, 12:58 AM	#342
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 14,000	Last time I checked, MLB awarded 1.0 wins regardless of whether you beat the Orioles or the Yankees. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 94 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 * 2071 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

12-01-2018, 09:02 AM	#351
daves Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,979	I just posted and found it funny. The team average player rating is 25-30 points higher than mine. It's like a low level college team beating a MLB team when both teams want to win. And the response is, go beat up on a little league team and we will reward you. Beat the big boys who cares. lol. __________________

12-01-2018, 11:30 AM	#353
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	Between the Promotion/Relegation system, and the fact that I can leave the game for a month, have my team continue playing, and come back to a good haul of PP, I would even argue that PT is far more fair to the F2P players than most other F2P games out there. Also, we have 20 years of experience showing us that OOTPD is willing to tinker with and improve their game every year, and I am positive the same thing will happen with PT. Good post, well said. __________________ Jersey Template (Photoshop) \| Cap Template (Photoshop)

12-01-2018, 02:45 PM	#358
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,810	Beat him 21-0 and you will get an achievement. Your 6-0 win was just like any other win. __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

12-01-2018, 03:34 AM	#349
The Melancholic Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 22	There will never be any kind of collectibles game without people whining about "pay to win." These sorts of games are popular because they appeal to people for a wide variety of casual and serious players depending on what you want out of them, but one group they don't appeal to is ultracompetitive people who think they're entitled to be able to win at any game they try, and think it's "unfair" if they're at any disadvantage. This isn't to say that PT shouldn't always be evaluating its monetization model to strike a good balance; I happen to think it's pretty aggressive right now, but I'm optimistic that will change in OOTP20 with daily tournaments and other games that reward people for frequent participation.