MLB All-Star Game (No Gwynn tribute)

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by CD1083

You must be new to national sports broadcasts.

Somehow, I still believe in things like honesty and integrity, which 21st century culture has dumped entirely. I'm heading for extinction, so disregard me.....

[kenyan_cheena]

One thing I don't understand about the All-Star Game is why the players (even the ones standing around watching) wear those custom designed American and National League jerseys during the Home Run Derby, but then wear their individual team jerseys during the actual game.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by RchW

OK I get it. Gwynn should have been honored. I'll wait to see what the Gwynne family's wishes were before judging the level of the screw up.

Using someone else's screw up to justify pissy little hate fits on to Jeter just doesn't fly. I'm no Jeter worshipper but he is not responsible for anything that did or did not happen last night.

Yeah, that's fair. For me, it's just the continuation of the Jeter love fest that irritates me. I get it though. He's a good-looking, nice guy who plays for the most recognizable team in MLB and he has had a very good career, It's certainly not his fault that Gwynn was snubbed and it's not his fault that he's been one of the most overrated athletes of my generation. Had he played his entire career for Kansas City, then I'm certain he'd quietly be going about his business and the love fest would be much, much smaller.

I probably should have left Jeter out of my initial post, but it was so much Jeter at the ASG. The guy plays a game for a living for pete's sake and you would think he is Mother Teresa the way he's been extolled all season. And yeah, again, not his fault but rather a commentary on the way society values its athletes/entertainers.

I still stand by assertion that he is ridiculously overrated and has been his entire career.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Dargone

Yeah, that's fair. For me, it's just the continuation of the Jeter love fest that irritates me. I get it though. He's a good-looking, nice guy who plays for the most recognizable team in MLB and he has had a very good career, It's certainly not his fault that Gwynn was snubbed and it's not his fault that he's been one of the most overrated athletes of my generation. Had he played his entire career for Kansas City, then I'm certain he'd quietly be going about his business and the love fest would be much, much smaller.

I probably should have left Jeter out of my initial post, but it was so much Jeter at the ASG. The guy plays a game for a living for pete's sake and you would think he is Mother Teresa the way he's been extolled all season. And yeah, again, not his fault but rather a commentary on the way society values its athletes/entertainers.

I still stand by assertion that he is ridiculously overrated and has been his entire career.

200 hits in a season 8 times. Scored over 100 runs in a season 13 times. Should have been 14 times, he had 99 one season. .311 career average. 3408 career hits and the only Yankee ever to reach 3000. Yup that's overrated in my eyes. I bet if Lou Gehrig made that luckiest man speech today half the country would call him selfish for delaying the start of the game. Now if you narrowed your statement to his defense, I could somewhat agree.

[Questdog]

The game I watched, Gwynn and Harmon Killebrew were featured prominently. I don't know what you guys are even talking about.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by David Watts

200 hits in a season 8 times. Scored over 100 runs in a season 13 times. Should have been 14 times, he had 99 one season. .311 career average. 3408 career hits and the only Yankee ever to reach 3000. Yup that's overrated in my eyes. I bet if Lou Gehrig made that luckiest man speech today half the country would call him selfish for delaying the start of the game. Now if you narrowed your statement to his defense, I could somewhat agree.

^

He definitely falls into the "so overrated he's underrated" category. The NY media hyped him up for so long that we collectively want to gouge our eyes and ears out every time we see him or hear about him. All that noise masks the fact the Jeter is/was an excellent baseball player and has had a fantastic career. He deserved the Ripken treatment at the game.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Good point. I consider Jeter one of the greatest players ever to play the game. And I was fine with him receiving a nice ovation when he was introduced and when he left the game. All well and good. But the nine-inning lovefest was too much. I turned off the game in the seventh inning, after being deluged with Jeter-this and Jeter-that. I mean, the broadcasters even made a big deal about him standing at the dugout rail watching the rest of the game, as if this testified to his greatness. It wasn't Jeter's fault. FOX simply made the decision to milk the occasion for all it was worth. Frankly, it bothered me, as someone who tuned in to watch an All-Star Game. Not a 3-hour tribute to Jeter.


As for Gwynn, yes, you're right. How did he not merit a tribute is beyond me.

I agree with everything here except I will add one thing which may not be apparent to people who have not followed Jeter's career that closely: Don't blame him for this hooplah. I can state categorically that, if it were up to him, most of this nonsense would not be occurring. Frankly, I think he is secretly embarrassed at times. Blame the stupid media and the hero worshipers among us needing their vicarious gratification. These days, we have to overdo everything to absurd excess in order to wallow in what feels good.

[Déjà Bru]

And I will not forgive Tony Gwynn for "chewing" himself to death. I don't know why that bothers me, but it does. 54 is too young to die from a horrible disease like that but especially when it's self-inflicted. This all sounds so insensitive, I realize, but what a stupid waste of life and what a damned dumb example he set for young folks who idolized him and who even now may have suffered or will be suffering the same fate. Gosh, I don't even want to talk about him anymore.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

And I will not forgive Tony Gwynn for "chewing" himself to death. I don't know why that bothers me, but it does. 54 is too young to die from a horrible disease like that but especially when it's self-inflicted. This all sounds so insensitive, I realize, but what a stupid waste of life and what a damned dumb example he set for young folks who idolized him and who even now may have suffered or will be suffering the same fate. Gosh, I don't even want to talk about him anymore.

There is no evidence that tobacco chewing causes the particular kind of cancer Tony Gwynn had. I know he was convinced that it was the culprit, but there just isn't the evidence to support the claim.

Salivary gland cancer Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Questdog

There is no evidence that tobacco chewing causes the particular kind of cancer Tony Gwynn had. I know he was convinced that it was the culprit, but there just isn't the evidence to support the claim.

Salivary gland cancer Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic

I have heard this; I know cancers can occur without the usual causes; and yet I still don't buy it. Here, you want a link in return?

The snuff and chewing tobacco products most widely used in the United States have very high levels of cancer-causing agents (carcinogens) called tobacco-specific nitrosamines. These carcinogens cause lung cancer in animals, even when injected into their blood. There are other cancer-causing agents in smokeless tobacco, too, such as benzo[a]pyrene and other polycyclic aromatic carcinogens. These carcinogens may be why several types of cancer are linked to use of smokeless tobacco

That's from the American Cancer's page on Smokeless Tobacco. So, studies have not linked chewing tobacco specifically with parotid cancer, is that what you are saying? Well, let's see. A carcinogen is introduced in the area of the mouth, consistently, day after day, and cancer occurs. Nope, gotta be random bad luck or maybe it was his toothpaste.

You reply now, with my blessings. I am not coming back here anymore, however, so talk to the rest of the guys instead. I am done talking about stupid habits killing good people.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I have heard this; I know cancers can occur without the usual causes; and yet I still don't buy it. Here, you want a link in return?



That's from the American Cancer's page on Smokeless Tobacco. So, studies have not linked chewing tobacco specifically with parotid cancer, is that what you are saying? Well, let's see. A carcinogen is introduced in the area of the mouth, consistently, day after day, and cancer occurs. Nope, gotta be random bad luck or maybe it was his toothpaste.

You reply now, with my blessings. I am not coming back here anymore, however, so talk to the rest of the guys instead. I am done talking about stupid habits killing good people.

Specifically, people who chew tobacco do not show a higher instance of this cancer happening than people who do not chew tobacco. The vast majority of people who get this cancer are not tobacco users.

To say, "It's a nasty habit, it has to be the culprit" is just ignorance and does nothing to help find the real cause.

I agree, by the way, that it is a nasty habit.....

[MikeTjo]

Originally Posted by John Madden

That part was ridiculous. Let's all stand up! OK, cancer's cured, sit back down.

Susan G. Komen has definitely made me very skeptical about cancer charities and their true aims, so whenever I see a giant corporate partnership with one, I assume the worst.

Your skepticism about the "true aims" of Komen and other cancer charities are well justified because they are mainly big self-serving businesses instead of a charities, misleading and keeping critical cancer information from the public (read the epilogue of this: A Mammogram Letter The British Medical Journal Censored ).

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

^

He definitely falls into the "so overrated he's underrated" category. The NY media hyped him up for so long that we collectively want to gouge our eyes and ears out every time we see him or hear about him.

Yeah, that's probably fair.

[wireman]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I have heard this; I know cancers can occur without the usual causes; and yet I still don't buy it. Here, you want a link in return?



That's from the American Cancer's page on Smokeless Tobacco. So, studies have not linked chewing tobacco specifically with parotid cancer, is that what you are saying? Well, let's see. A carcinogen is introduced in the area of the mouth, consistently, day after day, and cancer occurs. Nope, gotta be random bad luck or maybe it was his toothpaste.

You reply now, with my blessings. I am not coming back here anymore, however, so talk to the rest of the guys instead. I am done talking about stupid habits killing good people.

Like most people, you probably don't even know where your parotid glands are. (I never heard of them till I had to have one removed.) So don't jump to conclusions too fast.

Sometimes people with really foul habits (which this is) can get cancer totally by coincidence -- a lot of people have bad habits and a lot of people get cancer. I think that's what happened here.

[wireman]

Originally Posted by Dargone

So MLB can continue the Jeter love fest (most overrated shortstop ever, yeah I said it), but can't take a few minutes for a Tony Gwynn tribute. Ridiculous.

Thoughts?

Last time I watched the All-Star Game, I think Brooks Robinson was in it.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by wireman

Like most people, you probably don't even know where your parotid glands are. (I never heard of them till I had to have one removed.) So don't jump to conclusions too fast.

Sometimes people with really foul habits (which this is) can get cancer totally by coincidence -- a lot of people have bad habits and a lot of people get cancer. I think that's what happened here.

Yeah, it's inane and offensive to 'blame' someone for getting cancer. As someone currently battling cancer, I take more offense to it than most I'm sure.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by wireman

Last time I watched the All-Star Game, I think Brooks Robinson was in it.

Great third baseman!

I missed that one, due to not being alive yet

Originally Posted by Dargone

I missed that one, due to not being alive yet

Your avatar photo shows you're not completely alive... yet.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by dmytron

your avatar photo shows you're not completely alive... Yet.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by John Madden

Don't have time to check into this; when was the last time an All-Star starter had a slugging % lower than their OBP like Jeter this year?

Dunno when the last time was, but Ozzie Smith did it 9 times if my count is accurate.