Option for tie games (standing similar to English Premier League)

[dim13]

Option to have games end in a tie, and with this an option to sort the league standings based on PTs instead of PCT (3 point for a win and 1 point for a tie) and a secondary sort on run differential.

Would like to set up a league mirroring the English Premier League (soccer) with 20 teams and 38 games. Doesn't really work well without tie games and without PT total sort, too many teams tied in the standings with the same W-L record. Would of course have promotion/relegation and a champions league - leagues from around the world.

Just an idea. May spark an interest in the European market. Would really like this myself.

[Le Grande Orange]

Both the *** in Japan and the KBO in Korea allow games to end in a tie. (I believe both have the rule that a game that is still tied after 12 innings goes into the books as a tie). Some of the U.S. summer college baseball leagues also allow ties.

So tie games are a part of baseball. (Even MLB can have tie games, it's just that in its case the tie games are not counted in the standings and are replayed in their entirety though, interestingly, the player statistics from MLB tie games do count.)

Points are typically not used when ties are allowed. What usually happens is that either (a) ties are counted in the winning percentage as half a win; or (b) ties are disregarded when calculating winning percentage. So, for example, a team with a 6-3-1 record would have either a .650 winning percentage (6.5 wins out of 10 games) or a .667 winning percentage (6 wins out of 9 games).

[blasek0]

Ties would be an awesome idea, I think, especially for those who want to create fictional/non-MLB universes. Adds a lot of flexibility to a game, although the AI managers' code would probably need to be re-written if ties were an option. Knowing a game can only go 9-12 innings will rework how a manager uses a bullpen in a tight game.

[Scruff]

Ties would be great, with the following options:

1) Last possible inning (any number 9+)
2) An option to have ties count as nothing (NFL did this before 1972), half a win (think NHL before the shootouts), or 1/3 of a win (soccer).
3) An option to have ties in playoff games or just regular season

If you allow ties in playoff games, some interesting possibilities open up, especially if you do the 3 points for a win 1 point for a tie in playoff series too. You would just need another option for if tied in points at the end of the last playoff game to play an extra game that can't end in a tie or decide the tie on net runs or something.

If you wanted to make it like NHL hockey you could have a home run derby after the last inning as your 'shootout'

[CatKnight]

I've often wished I could have an option to call it a tie game after 12 innings.

I would be reluctant to allow ties during playoff games though, simply because somebody has to win and having to add extra games to each playoff round could get chaotic. I'd also be reluctant to allow home run derbies - that rewards power teams while punishing those who play 'small ball.'

[Cryomaniac]

Ties are a cool idea, but I wonder whether they would take too much tweaking of the database structure to be a viable addition.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by CatKnight

I've often wished I could have an option to call it a tie game after 12 innings.

I would be reluctant to allow ties during playoff games though, simply because somebody has to win and having to add extra games to each playoff round could get chaotic. I'd also be reluctant to allow home run derbies - that rewards power teams while punishing those who play 'small ball.'

This is exactly what I am looking for in the league I want to do: ties after 12 innings. 86% of all extra inning games resolve themselves before they hit a 13th inning, so it would still be rare. But it would be useful. And Japan League games in OOTP are already allowed to end in ties.

[olivertheorem]

Originally Posted by CatKnight

I've often wished I could have an option to call it a tie game after 12 innings.

I would be reluctant to allow ties during playoff games though, simply because somebody has to win and having to add extra games to each playoff round could get chaotic. I'd also be reluctant to allow home run derbies - that rewards power teams while punishing those who play 'small ball.'

I would wager that leagues which allow regular-season ties in real-life probably don't allow them in playoffs, though I haven't bothered to check on that.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

And Japan League games in OOTP are already allowed to end in ties.

Ties are also allowed in the Korean Baseball Organization and the Chinese Professional Baseball League (Taiwan). The Arizona Fall League has a rule specifying that any game with a tied score after 11 innings remains a tie.

Two small points to consider when allowing tie games:

(1) How are ties calculated for winning percentage purposes? There are two methods. The first is to ignore tie games and calculate winning percentage based on the wins and losses only. The second is to count ties as half won and half lost. So, for example, if a team is 6-3-1, the winning percentage would be .667 under the first method and .650 under the second.

(2) Should games ending in a tie be made up in full later? Or are they left as a tie in the standings and not replayed later? Both methods have been used in different leagues at different times.

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

I would wager that leagues which allow regular-season ties in real-life probably don't allow them in playoffs, though I haven't bothered to check on that.

Actually, that's not necessarily true. Playoff games are allowed to end as a tie in Japan, though it should be noted the championship series in each of the two leagues is handled in a somewhat unusual fashion. (The higher seeded team starts the best-of-seven series with a one-win advantage, so only six games are actually played. Also, all games are played at the higher seeded club's park.)

[chucksabr]

In addition to allowing draws in games, maybe we could also tie a point system to it. Two or three points for a win, one point for a tie?

[ussoldier2002]

Eh not for me. I don't think any sport should ever end in a tie. My opinion is, why play the game if you are not playing to win. But it is a video game and you do it how u like. Just my opinion lol

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by ussoldier2002

Eh not for me. I don't think any sport should ever end in a tie. My opinion is, why play the game if you are not playing to win. But it is a video game and you do it how u like. Just my opinion lol

That's what's great about OOTP, the sheer amount of options, and anything that adds more can only be good in my opinion.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

In addition to allowing draws in games, maybe we could also tie a point system to it. Two or three points for a win, one point for a tie?

The Mexican League used to use a points-based system (the winter Mexican Pacific League still does). It worked like this: the season was split into two halves. Teams were awarded points based on their position of finish at the end of each half: 8 points for first, 7 points for second, 6.5 points for third, 6 points for fourth, 5.5 points for fifth, 5 points for sixth, 4.5 points for seventh, and 4 points for eighth place. At the end of the regular season the teams making the playoffs were the ones with the most total points, and the playoff match-ups were also based on the points total.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The Mexican League used to use a points-based system (the winter Mexican Pacific League still does). It worked like this: the season was split into two halves. Teams were awarded points based on their position of finish at the end of each half: 8 points for first, 7 points for second, 6.5 points for third, 6 points for fourth, 5.5 points for fifth, 5 points for sixth, 4.5 points for seventh, and 4 points for eighth place. At the end of the regular season the teams making the playoffs were the ones with the most total points, and the playoff match-ups were also based on the points total.

That's quite a cool system.

[fromtheline]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

This is exactly what I am looking for in the league I want to do: ties after 12 innings. 86% of all extra inning games resolve themselves before they hit a 13th inning, so it would still be rare. But it would be useful. And Japan League games in OOTP are already allowed to end in ties.

Is it really true that Japan League games in OOTP can already end in ties? Then it would not be hard to implement across the board. Let me play with this feature now!

[kq76]

Originally Posted by fromtheline

Is it really true that Japan League games in OOTP can already end in ties? Then it would not be hard to implement across the board. Let me play with this feature now!

While I'd like it to be true, I don't think it is. I couldn't find anything in the Japan league settings about it and when I tested a standard Japan league I saw several games 13 innings or longer.

There's also this from one of the OOTP15 newsletters:

One of the more notable features of Japanese baseball is the possibility of a tie if the game isn't decided within 12 innings. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to incorporate this into OOTP yet, so all games will operate with North American-style unlimited extra innings.

OOTP Baseball 15 - Road to Release #1: International Leagues

[as5680]

I don't think I would ever use ties in regular season play, but I would really like to be able to use them in Spring Training. My league has had games go as long as 21 innings in Spring Training which is not really necessary.

I am however inclined to agree with the view that something like that could well require more work to code than would make it worthwhile.

[Le Grande Orange]

It should be pointed out that MLB games can end in a tie also. The difference is that those tie games are not counted in the standings and are replayed later in their entirely. (Though, interestingly, the player statistics from MLB tie games are included in the player's total for the season.)

[darkcloud4579]

Rather than ties, I'd settle for shorter inning games. So you could simulate little league or something with six inning games, etc. That should be easier to implement than tie games anyway. Tie games seem like a lot of work for no real payoff.