The Final Straw--I've bought my last copy of OOTP

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

Dang, I've been computer gaming for about 30 years. I lost count a long time ago how many games I've bought. None have been perfect. ALL had things I didn't like. If one of those things was a game breaker, I'd suggest an improvement. If that didn't come, I'd just play something else. OOTP is a typical example. It's not perfect. There are things about it I don't like. I've suggested improvements and it looks like some won't be implemented. I've decided those aren't game breakers so I continue to play and put up with them. Otherwise i'd just leave. Starting a thread like this just makes a person look like a whiner whether he is or not.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by fhomess

This may not be acceptable to you, but to this point, it appears that it's been acceptable to enough people that Markus anc Co. haven't addressed it in the way that you want. These rules of which you speak are not written in stone or in the laws of any government. They're written in signed checks and cashed credit card orders. Every software company has a right to choose how they will address the balance of bug fixes and new features as they release a new product and then support it thereafter. Gaming software vendors are typically not liable for failing to fix bugs in their software, and the customer has no legal expectation that the vendor will do so. That expectation comes from an expectation of quality and commitment to pleasing customers. If the company fails to deliver what the customer is after, customers will stop purchasing their product and they'll learn that they chose their priorities poorly. We really do vote with our wallets.

As part of that agreement, customers have a right to voice discontent in an attempt to influence the development and support of the product. Forums like these provide a more public venue for voicing that discontent than a direct email or letter to the vendor might. Public discourse is almost always accompanied by varying perspectives on the same issue. For those here who are displeased with Markus and OOTP, you have a right to be heard on these forums. For those here who are displeased with the malcontents, you have a right to express your opinion as well.

In other words, let's try to keep all these discussions civil, understanding that this is all part of the process. Not every disagreement is an attack. Not every attack must be responded to in kind. An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.

Ultimately, the passion that people bring to these conversations suggests a couple of things. First, people care about OOTP. Secondly, they want the best product possible. Third, until now, it doesn't appear that they're ready to either quit simulation baseball or move to a different product. Otherwise, they'd just up and leave without much of a comment. Obviously, a software vendor needs to figure out how to maintain market share before it vanishes. Once it starts to disintegrate, it's much harder to build it back up.

This is a fantastic post. Nice job

[Elvis]

Now I'm just a shy country boy from Tupelo, but, man, that thread title alone ("The Final Straw"??) was askin' for it.

I get all the sentiment here on both sides, and perhaps some good points have been made, but these "proclamation" posts almost always end up this way.

Thank you...thank you very much.

[Antonin]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Now I'm just a shy country boy from Tupelo, but, man, that thread title alone ("The Final Straw"??) was askin' for it.

I get all the sentiment here on both sides, and perhaps some good points have been made, but these "proclamation" posts almost always end up this way.

Thank you...thank you very much.

No...thank YOU.

Methinks people make proclamation posts because they WANT to draw flames so they can cop a righteous "freedom of speech" pose.

[targy]

1. When offering a free agent a contract and I meet demand, I will often get an email telling me my offer is way off base. I go back into the free agent and he's asking for what I just gave him. If the plan is to drive the gameplayer crazy, it's working. Otherwise it's a legacy bug that is being ignored.



I was told that Marcus could not duplicate this but I too would like to see this problem fixed as this has been a bug since say one

[Afino]

I think we need this guy on the OT Debates forum.

[Syd Thrift]

Well, I think it's pretty clear that this guy got exactly what he wanted: a crowd to hear him whinge. Sadly - especially for the other people here who might have experienced the issues he experienced - it didn't accomplish much in the way of actually getting the developers to look at the issues. If anything, Markus may be less willing to review these issues because now they're attached to an obvious crank. Still, the Internet is the Internet is the Internet.

[eborix]

mking, just curious. I have been playing computer games for close to 30 years and using productivity software at work for 25 years, and have yet to see any program without bugs. Maybe you could point me to the software that the companies you talk about create? I would love to see a program of any real complexity that is bug free

[SoCal Doug]

Wanted to jump in with a nice warm and fuzzy moment in OOTP history for me.

First thing I started thinking of when I got the new version (before having played a single game mind you) was to start writing down the suggestions I had which I was remembering from the previous version(s). I didn't recall seeing any announcement that these changes had been done - although I seem to play in spurts and may have missed the news.

Warming the cockles of my heart I found several changes made that I had suggested and wished for. And I KNOW that not all of my suggestion are what other people are looking for, so it was very much appreciated.

But I can also say that something that didn't get changed which was one of the items mentioned in the original post was when you go to the substitute screen that the screen always seems to show the batters when you need to replace the pitchers and vice versa. And I would swear that I too have seen the displayed items switch from what I would expect them to be.

Did this not get addressed because it is too hard to program? because Markus et al only have so many hours to work on this? Because I was the only person to ever mention it? Because people who play out games and actually make substitutions are in the minority? I don't know.

I think of it much like the great fact that the game has several methods of play. I bought the game originally because of the ability to play historical teams/seasons without having to pay up the nose for data disks and then being limited to teams I had on hand. But is Historical games the top priority? Fictional play? MLB replay? Simming 100 seasons at a time? Playing play by play.. pitch by pitch... online... solo... ?? Does anyone have the time to keep all of these working to perfection and upgraded?
I am still gracious that this type of product is on the market and it does get the love.

I was an APBAphile, but what happened there... Pfffffftttttt Fizzle fizzle.
Broke my heart to look elsewhere for something that had life and care.

Last comment - I wanted badly to use Open Office instead of MS Office. I want to buck the big brother. I had it all set and then found that two or three of the features I use all the time were not there. How could such simple features that are standard in MS Office not be in Open Office? Responses to my suggestions were poo-poo'd it basically saying that they aren't really needed, you can pretty much emulate the same things in other ways. Guess what, these were the features I used all the time and Open office didn't have them. I'm back to MS office.

SoCal Doug

PS Sorry for the length!

[WillieMaysHayes]

Wow.

I'm not in IT, but I am in business and I think there's a huge difference between a "developer" and an "IT guy" that fixes bugs. I'd say that both are pretty much full time jobs and Markus is apparently wearing both hats. On top of both jobs, he also throws in some posts on the forum every once in a while to touch base with the community - something that I would say 90% of the developers I've ran across would never ever do. How far do you reasonably think he should be stretched?

Sure I think they could fig the bugs. They could probably hire a guy full time to do it. Would it improve the game? Yeah probably. Would it improve the customer experience? I don't know. Part of the reason I like this game is that it's not expensive. And it's not owned by a Big Boy corporation. Is that such a bad thing? I've played some $50 PC games that had a lot more bugs than having to re-sort columns.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by eborix

mking, just curious. I have been playing computer games for close to 30 years and using productivity software at work for 25 years, and have yet to see any program without bugs.

It's not just software that has bugs that occasionally need to be fixed. Other products too suffer from similar problems.

Cars, for example, have been subject to numerous recalls over the years, requiring the car to be "patched" in some way by the dealer or manufacturer. Heck, Fisher-Price just yesterday announced a huge recall of some of its products. Even children's toys, it seems, are sometimes shipped with "bugs" that affect the operation of the toy and require a "patch" from the manufacturer to resolve.

[David Watts]

Mking has an agenda. He stirred things up on here several months ago and then ran over to the Pure Sim boards to gloat. Back then his complaint was that OOTP was too easy. If you remember, he was told over and over that the game has trouble with multiple player trades, but continued to hammer the point that he could win championship after championship by trading 8 of his players for 2 of the AI's. Sure hope he brings that up again, because that alone might be enough to bring MD back.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Mking has an agenda. He stirred things up on here several months ago and then ran over to the Pure Sim boards to gloat. Back then his complaint was that OOTP was too easy. If you remember, he was told over and over that the game has trouble with multiple player trades, but continued to hammer the point that he could win championship after championship by trading 8 of his players for 2 of the AI's.

Yes, many of us remember that and that's why we are not so sad about him leaving.

LOL

[canadiancreed]

"The worst thing we can do to our competition, is to send customers like you over to them."

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by SoCal Doug

Last comment - I wanted badly to use Open Office instead of MS Office. I want to buck the big brother. I had it all set and then found that two or three of the features I use all the time were not there. How could such simple features that are standard in MS Office not be in Open Office? Responses to my suggestions were poo-poo'd it basically saying that they aren't really needed, you can pretty much emulate the same things in other ways. Guess what, these were the features I used all the time and Open office didn't have them. I'm back to MS office.

I'm just curious (hopefully before you go shell out for big brother), have you tried this extension for Open Office? Since you didn't specify what features you wanted, I can't be sure if they're there. It does have 1,048,576 lines in Calc, but I'm not sure about other features because I'm a bit of a computer simpleton. I guess because Open Office is open source, somebody as frustrated as you decided they were going to do something about it, so they added this stuff. It can be a bit crashy as the file gets larger and when you use the Find & Replace feature a lot within the same file. Good luck and I hope you don't spend for MS Office and support Bill and Melinda and their empire, without first checking out the extension to see if it has what you're looking for. I am quite sure you could use the money more than they can. Cheers and good luck.

[Jah]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Mking has an agenda. He stirred things up on here several months ago and then ran over to the Pure Sim boards to gloat. Back then his complaint was that OOTP was too easy. If you remember, he was told over and over that the game has trouble with multiple player trades, but continued to hammer the point that he could win championship after championship by trading 8 of his players for 2 of the AI's. Sure hope he brings that up again, because that alone might be enough to bring MD back.

Looks like he's stirring things up over there now...not to gloat, but to proclaim that Pure Sim is unplayable.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by Jah

Looks like he's stirring things up over there now...not to gloat, but to proclaim that Pure Sim is unplayable.

ah the scorched earth strategy.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Jah

Looks like he's stirring things up over there now...not to gloat, but to proclaim that Pure Sim is unplayable.

He's only trying to make the game better

Originally Posted by mking55

This board brings out the best in me, and allows me to exhibit exceptional tolerance.

Mking55 speaking about the Puresim board, this is a classic quote from his long winded rant. I won't link to the post but will leave it to you to decided if you want to go find it and read it. It is worth the trip

[Cooleyvol]

lol................2 games in 2 days that are unplayable.

[pbar25]

Originally Posted by RchW

What would you pay for a lifetime licence?

It seem strange that you are angry about $500. Do you realize that a lifetime licence (not realistic at all as OOTP would go out of business in 5 years) would cost $1000 or more. I don't know anybody, including me who would pony up that cash in advance.

The discounts that OOTPD offers each year to customers is far far more than any form of long term discount could be. No business can discount its product below cost for anything but a very short period of time.

I think that Markus gets it right on the money and I have no problem buying two copies so that my sun can play too. I admit that $40-$50 is not a problem for me so YMMV.

I'm not angry, just expressing my view. I love the game, and I'm in an OOTP league that I don't plan to ever leave - even if it keeps upgrading. I've released quick-starts that I have spent months on. I think it's the greatest thing since slice bread.

I'd say if you purchase and support OOTP in the way of purchasing 7 versions at full price, you get a life-time subscription. If all of their customers buy seven versions at full price, they ain't going out of business. For the people just joining, it gives them something to shoot for.