Most overrated boxers

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I just think he's overrated by the public at large when it comes to his boxing skill.

Ohhhhhh, boxing skill?? That's how we're rating fighters now??

Bah

[hamed]

Originally Posted by Thunder

The last guy I put on the list is Ray Leonard. His resume has been touched on and I think it's excellent. His only prime loss was when he decided to bang with a guy called "Hand of Stone" and he lost by one, one and two points. I think that says a lot for his chin and power.

I know some people think he lost to Hagler or in Hearns 2, but the record shows that is not the case. Given his body of work, I think he's the best prizefighter of my lifetime (that being defined as the post-Ali era).

Excellent points Thunder, I agree.

[hamed]

Originally Posted by mh2365

My dislike of Leonard doesn't have anything to do with his talent so I wouldn't put him on my overrated list.

Yes Mike I recall our previous discussions & can understand your dislike.

[Lee]

I have to throw Mark Breland onto the list. As an amatuer he was 110-1 and regarded as the next Thomas Hearns. As a pro he did win 2 World titles finishing 35-3-1, but never quite lived up to the hype and had a very ordinary Chin when all was said and done.

[mh2365]

I always thought the 6 rating for Breland in TBCB was unfair.

[a87star]

Originally Posted by mh2365

I always thought the 6 rating for Breland in TBCB was unfair.

Even thought Breland was overrated and didn't live up to the hype, a 6 rating really shortchanges his abilities in the ring.

[mrchallenge]

Tony Zale. He reigned for 6 years in boxings glamour division and was inactive for 4 of those years, in which time he never defended his title against deserving black fighters like Archie, Ezzard (still a middleweight during those early years), Jack Chase, Lloyd Marshall, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Eddie Booker, etc....and Jake Lamotta. All of these guys I would favor to beat Zale.

Now he's revered in history because of the 3 fight series with Graziano, who wasn't even a deserving challenger for the title.

Don't get me wrong, I think Zale is a great fighter. He's just more well known than his accomplishments.

[Claybor]

Ray Leonard for sure, but I think he is #2 to the guy the 90% of you probably think is the best ever thats Muhammad Cassius Ali Clay the biggest mouth that ever stepped into a ring and the only guy to convince a whole nation that he was the best ever, and do it with his mouth. I am not saying he was not a great fighter by any means, just this overall crap of "The Greatest" makes me sick. "The Loudest", "The Least Professional", "the Biggest Dumbass to ever step into the Ring", these are the titles that belong to this man in my opinion. Yes I may be over the top here, but that's how I respond the the same treatment this man gets from the masses which I believe to be just as over the top.

[mh2365]

I think you have to put Margarito in this category now. For two years we've heard how he is the best WW and everyone is scared to fight him. Yet his performances against Clottey and Williams proved otherwise.

All the Margarita drinkers kept saying after the Clottey fight that "Margarito had a sprained ankle and a hurt hand too" I wonder what excuses we will hear this time.

[hamed]

Originally Posted by mh2365

I think you have to put Margarito in this category now. For two years we've heard how he is the best WW and everyone is scared to fight him. Yet his performances against Clottey and Williams proved otherwise.

All the Margarita drinkers kept saying after the Clottey fight that "Margarito had a sprained ankle and a hurt hand too" I wonder what excuses we will hear this time.

Maybe not excuses, he seems to think he won & was robbed. He had some moments in that fight but Paul was much busier throughout the whole fight.

[BradS]

No particular order.

1. Vlad Klitschko- throw him into the 70s, doesn't make the top 10.
2. Danny "Little Red" Lopez- slow and ate way too many punches.
3. Gatti- see #2
4. Agree with Breland.
5. Wepner- punching bag.
6. Howard Davis- coming out of the Olympics was a sure superstar.

...just a few.

[rastak]

Originally Posted by Claybor

Ray Leonard for sure, but I think he is #2 to the guy the 90% of you probably think is the best ever thats Muhammad Cassius Ali Clay the biggest mouth that ever stepped into a ring and the only guy to convince a whole nation that he was the best ever, and do it with his mouth. I am not saying he was not a great fighter by any means, just this overall crap of "The Greatest" makes me sick. "The Loudest", "The Least Professional", "the Biggest Dumbass to ever step into the Ring", these are the titles that belong to this man in my opinion. Yes I may be over the top here, but that's how I respond the the same treatment this man gets from the masses which I believe to be just as over the top.

If you can back it up, it ain't braggin. Ali was the greatest fighter to lace em up in my humble opinion. You ain't alone in hatin the guy...a whole country hated him and he showed em all. Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Robinson, maybe Jack Dempsey....they are all close.....but Ali was the man.

[Mr Big]

Originally Posted by Claybor

Ray Leonard for sure, but I think he is #2 to the guy the 90% of you probably think is the best ever thats Muhammad Cassius Ali Clay the biggest mouth that ever stepped into a ring and the only guy to convince a whole nation that he was the best ever, and do it with his mouth. I am not saying he was not a great fighter by any means, just this overall crap of "The Greatest" makes me sick. "The Loudest", "The Least Professional", "the Biggest Dumbass to ever step into the Ring", these are the titles that belong to this man in my opinion. Yes I may be over the top here, but that's how I respond the the same treatment this man gets from the masses which I believe to be just as over the top.

While I respect Ali for his accomplishments in the ring, and for his placement in boxing history, I am also of the opinion that he was highly overrated. Having an extensive boxing video library that I have compiled over a 3 decade period has afforded me the opportunities to objectively view all of his major fights on several occasions. Bottom line: Just not that impressed.

Yes, he was fast. Yes, he had good reflexes. Yes, he was very agile in the ring. But, I believe there is a huge misconception of his punching accuracy. He missed alot of them. He also got hit a lot more than history would like to remember. He was always backpedaling and showboating, and never forced the issue like a Joe Frazier. In truth, not a lot in the power department, either. And his chin. Well, the numerous knockdowns, many times against less than ferocious punchers, tell the tale.

My conclusion: Great fighter? Debatable. Very good fighter? Yes. The greatest fighter? No. The greatest showman? Yes.

[bdennis2]

Ali was down 4 times 2 before his 21/2 yrs lay off Henry Cooper once and Sonny Banks once early on. 2 times after he came back Joe Frazier and Chuck Wepner if you want to count Wepner steping on Ali,s foot and Ali falling down.Considering he had 3 fights with Frazier 3 fights with Norton 1 fight with Shavers,Foreman and Ron Lyle i thank if my math is right that is a total of 115 rds with some of the best power in boxing and Joe Frazier was the only one in all 9 fights to knock him down and that not counting 2 fights with Bugner Jerry Quarry 1 fight with Mac Foster Oscar Bonaventi even a prime Larry Holmes against a wore out Ali when he stopped Ali couldn't knock him down even though i thank Holmes did ease up on him there at last.All by the way that shot Frazier hit him with in the 15 round not many fighters would have got up that late in a fight. Most of today fighters wouldn't made at to the 15th much less get up.If someone comes up with something different please post it so i can update my stats.

[Syd Thrift]

Yeah, Ali really was that good. A big part of why IMO people talk about the decline of the heavyweight division is that there's no way in Hades anybody in there over the last 20 years could even hope to lace up vs. Ali in his prime. A young Tyson, maybe, but I suspect Ali would manage to outwit him somehow. We're talking about a guy with the hand-speed of a good light-heavy and the punching power of a heavy... and a cunning intellect that could make him look like a genius in one fight and a bastard the next. And then there's the whole "I am the greatest" thing... how often is it that a person takes on the entire world and wins? Not too often, I don't think.

Another thing about Ali: there are some old Wide World of Sports tapes out there where he just basically talks boxing with Howard Cosell. It's a damn shame he got Parkinson's because the man could talk about the game almost as easily as he could fight it.

[Claybor]

My conclusion: Great fighter? Debatable. Very good fighter? Yes. The greatest fighter? No. The greatest showman? Yes

Exactly. Ali deserves to be in the mix of fighters considered to be amongst the best ever, I just think too many think he is the guy hands down with no debate. My personal opinion is that most folks saying that have been caught up in the hype.

I believe the people should be professional in everything they do, and Ali was the least professional athlete I have ever seen. I believe this man is greatly responsible for all the lousy attitudes amongst sports figures today, and I think the asinine attitudes have pretty much ruined all sports. I just can not for the life of me understand how such an ass has such a following.

[mh2365]

Met him in 1988 in Indianapolis and he was/is one of the nicest people I have ever met. Do I think he is the greatest of all-time? No. But he is a very nice guy and spent 15-20 minutes talking to me when I was just a bellhop at the hotel he was staying at.

[hamed]

Originally Posted by mh2365

I think you have to put Margarito in this category now. For two years we've heard how he is the best WW and everyone is scared to fight him. Yet his performances against Clottey and Williams proved otherwise.

All the Margarita drinkers kept saying after the Clottey fight that "Margarito had a sprained ankle and a hurt hand too" I wonder what excuses we will hear this time.

BTW Mike, thought you might find this result interesting. Margarito was my WBO WW champ as well with a 15-0 record.

I had Floyd fight him for the title on Sunday. In the 2nd round, Floyd dropped Antonio for a 2 count - flash knockdown. Floyd's dominating the fight (much like Paul did) but seemed to slow down a little in the middle rounds. In the 9th, Floyd got caught/dropped for a 3 count. Antonio ended the 9th with 24 points & for a while there I watched & wondered if Floyd would make it out of the round?

Floyd takes over again in the 10th & wins the 11th & 12th too. In the 13th, I think Margarito was out of gas & Floyd just kept landing until the ref stepped in (almost Ray Leonard like). I could almost see that happening, Antonio being so tired by the 13th, chasing & missing Floyd - Floyd landed 42% of his shots to 16% by Margarito. Floyd had 426 punches landed to 190. By the end, Floyd had dropped Antonio 3 times & Antonio dropped Floyd once.

The judging was interesting as well - all 3 for Floyd, 116-109, 115-110 but the Mexican judge only had Floyd up 113-110.

[mh2365]

take away the knockdowns and that sounds almost like what would really happen

[BigFiasco]

The only guy that came right to mind is Mike Tyson.