Promotion/Relegation... Is There A Way?

Ignatius J · 03-29-2007, 12:35 PM

I did some searching around here for ideas regarding a promotion relegation league I'm thinking of and basicaly found out that you can't do it from within the game, like expansion.

I'm guess what I'm wondering is if by using the change league structure function you can swap teams every year and effectively have a promotion/relegation system.

Does the game keep stats for everyone/team if I do this? I assume that if I did it with divisions it would be alright, because it would be just like realignment. What if I did it with separate independent leagues though?

And I could even have a cup running during the season with the addition of scheduling exhibition games during the season...

Just wondering if anyone has tried this and/or if it would work.

Thanks in advance for any info/advice.

cbbl · 03-29-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignatius J

I did some searching around here for ideas regarding a promotion relegation league I'm thinking of and basicaly found out that you can't do it from within the game, like expansion.

I'm guess what I'm wondering is if by using the change league structure function you can swap teams every year and effectively have a promotion/relegation system.

Does the game keep stats for everyone/team if I do this? I assume that if I did it with divisions it would be alright, because it would be just like realignment. What if I did it with separate independent leagues though?

And I could even have a cup running during the season with the addition of scheduling exhibition games during the season...

Just wondering if anyone has tried this and/or if it would work.

Thanks in advance for any info/advice.

Interesting thought, and curious to see the answers, as I don't know without actually trying it in the game.

IRL, teams have certainly changed leagues, and leagues themselves have also been promoted or demoted to different class levels.

cbbl

Ignatius J · 03-29-2007, 12:58 PM

I guess the other matter would be to make sure that the talent as a whole in the lower leagues wasn't as great as the top league. Creation Modifiers might help with this. Of course there are always a few good players in the lower leagues, usually young up and comers or older players on the way down.

Financially, it has to be a big difference between the leagues as well. TV money, avg ticket price, etc. This is why I think I'll have to do separate leagues instead of divisions within a league or simply just minor leagues.

Why do I always think of this stuff while at work?? 6 hours to go....

Operation Shutdown · 03-29-2007, 01:18 PM

I think the biggest problem with promotion/relegation style leagues would be the inability to load a player to a different team. Each of your teams in every league would have to have it's own developmental minor league system, otherwise the good teams would never be able to draft as their players wouldn't be able to develop. You'd then of course have the problem of having to move the teams entire minor league system to a different league as well.

marky32082 · 03-29-2007, 01:45 PM

I played around with Promotion and Relegation in 2006. Generally it worked well. I imported 2005 from Lahman and split up MLB into 3 separate leagues based on record. As far as minor league systems, I didn't have to move those actually. For example the game allowed the same AAA league have affiliates for multiple major leagues. I think I just got tired of how long it took to test out different settings. One of the issues I struggled with was how to correctly model the financial advantage of being in the top tier versus the third tier. Also each league had it's own draft and I decided I wanted the top tier to get the best talent so the league PCMs had to be adjusted accordingly.

One note: In OOTP 2006 the act of relegation had to be done after the history for the previous year was finalized. If I remember correctly for a standard league this was sometime in February.

bababui · 03-29-2007, 01:51 PM

Markus could borrow say the EPL template and have minors replace the reserves/under 18 teams. Please include this in a patch.

Immediatly!!

bababui · 03-29-2007, 01:53 PM

DOLA

The draft would have to be replaced by the youth system/youth academy.

This could also be adapted to make for truly accurate historic play pre drafting.

TurnerONU22 · 03-29-2007, 02:07 PM

I used promotion/relegation last year as well, but this year I think I have found something to make it even better: disable amateur draft and have a deeper draft pool.

Now, I have four leagues (Premier League, League Championship, Division 1 and Division 2) (named very similar to the EPL) each with a rookie level minors (basically the junior team). Trading is disabled between leagues, but FA is allowed b/t all 4 leagues.

Ex: I used the New York Yankees as a PL team, and their rookie team is the New York Junior Yankees (but with no age limit)

In 2007, I have added the feeder leagues, with a bunch of college and HS teams, that feed to the Premier League. In the PL, I have a draft of 5 rounds, but the pool is so large, that after the draft, the other 3 leagues will pick up the extra players, which i feel is a good way to spread out some of the talent. Sometimes, I have found that a lower league has picked up a FA rookie that was undrafted, and they become so great, that they end up going back to the Premier League after they are free agents.

Another neat thing that I did was stagger in the leagues. I started with the PL in 1970, added LC in 1978, added D1 in 1984, and added D2 in 1994. I am starting to promote/relegate in 2003, with a US cup championship in the preseason for all teams.

I find it to run very well, and I am going to start as an expansion team in the bottom league in 2003, and see if I can make it all the way to the top!

Ignatius J · 03-29-2007, 02:33 PM

Turner: Awesome. It's good to see you have it working.

Some questions though and they might be dumb, but whatever:

Do you use the edit league structure to do to the promotion/relegation?

Do you have to do things at certain times, like Marky alluded to earlier?

Does the talent (in general) get to be less with every step down?

Did you do anything with the finances?

darkcloud4579 · 03-29-2007, 06:07 PM

I ran a few promotion/relegation leagues last year and it worked pretty well. You have to set the salaries far enough apart that you don't have major leaguers making what the average salary in the lower league is. You can't really have affiliated minors or if you do, it has to be a league with players from all of the professional leagues and just have it as a "youth" or "reserve" league and that way, you don't have to change minor affiliations.

I think -- though I haven't tried it yet -- that it would have to be easier with this year's version then last year's. Once I implement it, I can speak to this better, but...given it was more than doable last year, doing it this year shouldn't be that difficult.

kq76 · 07-19-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

I used promotion/relegation last year as well, but this year I think I have found something to make it even better: disable amateur draft and have a deeper draft pool.

Now, I have four leagues (Premier League, League Championship, Division 1 and Division 2) (named very similar to the EPL) each with a rookie level minors (basically the junior team). Trading is disabled between leagues, but FA is allowed b/t all 4 leagues.

Ex: I used the New York Yankees as a PL team, and their rookie team is the New York Junior Yankees (but with no age limit)

In 2007, I have added the feeder leagues, with a bunch of college and HS teams, that feed to the Premier League. In the PL, I have a draft of 5 rounds, but the pool is so large, that after the draft, the other 3 leagues will pick up the extra players, which i feel is a good way to spread out some of the talent. Sometimes, I have found that a lower league has picked up a FA rookie that was undrafted, and they become so great, that they end up going back to the Premier League after they are free agents.

Another neat thing that I did was stagger in the leagues. I started with the PL in 1970, added LC in 1978, added D1 in 1984, and added D2 in 1994. I am starting to promote/relegate in 2003, with a US cup championship in the preseason for all teams.

I find it to run very well, and I am going to start as an expansion team in the bottom league in 2003, and see if I can make it all the way to the top!

Thanks for this idea. I'd really like to do an association with relegation, but I'm struggling with how to do a draft with relegation. I don't really like the idea of separate drafts for separate leagues (how do you tell yourself that is realistic with both leagues based in the same region?) and I don't really like the idea of not having a draft at all.

Ideally, I'd like to have multiple leagues (or league tiers if you want to think of it as one whole league) participate in the same draft with say the top tier drafting their 1st rd 1st then the next tier drafting in the 1st rd, then it going back to the 1st tier drafting in the 2nd rd. Or something like that. If someone knows of a way to do this, I'd love to hear it.

Alternatively, I wouldn't mind trying out a system where they share the same pool of players, but the first tier does all of their draft first and then the next league does all of their draft. That is, they don't take turns each round. One finishes their entire draft and then the next one does theirs. Any way to do this?

I read someone saying they actually have the best teams drafting 1st which is intriguing and something I would consider too as it makes a fair bit of sense when doing relegation.

As to the idea I quoted and bolded, however, I wonder: are these lower leagues really signing most of these undrafted players? What stops the 1st tier league from signing them and do they, or are they generally so bad that they're worthless? If this is as close as I can get to what I want (if the above two ideals are in now way doable right now), then I guess I'll try this, but I wonder how well the lower leagues go after these players.

EDIT: Started a new thread with this post instead.

03-29-2007, 12:35 PM	#1
Ignatius J Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 76	Promotion/Relegation... Is There A Way? I did some searching around here for ideas regarding a promotion relegation league I'm thinking of and basicaly found out that you can't do it from within the game, like expansion. I'm guess what I'm wondering is if by using the change league structure function you can swap teams every year and effectively have a promotion/relegation system. Does the game keep stats for everyone/team if I do this? I assume that if I did it with divisions it would be alright, because it would be just like realignment. What if I did it with separate independent leagues though? And I could even have a cup running during the season with the addition of scheduling exhibition games during the season... Just wondering if anyone has tried this and/or if it would work. Thanks in advance for any info/advice.

03-29-2007, 01:18 PM	#4
Operation Shutdown All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 912	I think the biggest problem with promotion/relegation style leagues would be the inability to load a player to a different team. Each of your teams in every league would have to have it's own developmental minor league system, otherwise the good teams would never be able to draft as their players wouldn't be able to develop. You'd then of course have the problem of having to move the teams entire minor league system to a different league as well. __________________ "And Shepherds we shall be, For thee, my Lord, for thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, Our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomeni Patri Et Fili Spiritus Sancti."

03-29-2007, 01:45 PM	#5
marky32082 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 283	I played around with Promotion and Relegation in 2006. Generally it worked well. I imported 2005 from Lahman and split up MLB into 3 separate leagues based on record. As far as minor league systems, I didn't have to move those actually. For example the game allowed the same AAA league have affiliates for multiple major leagues. I think I just got tired of how long it took to test out different settings. One of the issues I struggled with was how to correctly model the financial advantage of being in the top tier versus the third tier. Also each league had it's own draft and I decided I wanted the top tier to get the best talent so the league PCMs had to be adjusted accordingly. One note: In OOTP 2006 the act of relegation had to be done after the history for the previous year was finalized. If I remember correctly for a standard league this was sometime in February. __________________ These pretzels are making me thirsty!

03-29-2007, 06:07 PM	#10
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,688	I ran a few promotion/relegation leagues last year and it worked pretty well. You have to set the salaries far enough apart that you don't have major leaguers making what the average salary in the lower league is. You can't really have affiliated minors or if you do, it has to be a league with players from all of the professional leagues and just have it as a "youth" or "reserve" league and that way, you don't have to change minor affiliations. I think -- though I haven't tried it yet -- that it would have to be easier with this year's version then last year's. Once I implement it, I can speak to this better, but...given it was more than doable last year, doing it this year shouldn't be that difficult. __________________ ------ My Mods OOTP Advanced Stats & DFS Suite Managerial Strategy Pack Competitive Balance Tax Calculator Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| ---- Dynasty classics: Centurion comes to OOTP5 \| DC Moneyball Dynasty (2004)

03-29-2007, 12:58 PM	#3
Ignatius J Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 76	I guess the other matter would be to make sure that the talent as a whole in the lower leagues wasn't as great as the top league. Creation Modifiers might help with this. Of course there are always a few good players in the lower leagues, usually young up and comers or older players on the way down. Financially, it has to be a big difference between the leagues as well. TV money, avg ticket price, etc. This is why I think I'll have to do separate leagues instead of divisions within a league or simply just minor leagues. Why do I always think of this stuff while at work?? 6 hours to go....

03-29-2007, 01:51 PM	#6
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Markus could borrow say the EPL template and have minors replace the reserves/under 18 teams. Please include this in a patch. Immediatly!!

03-29-2007, 01:53 PM	#7
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	DOLA The draft would have to be replaced by the youth system/youth academy. This could also be adapted to make for truly accurate historic play pre drafting.

03-29-2007, 02:07 PM	#8
TurnerONU22 Bat Boy Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 10	I used promotion/relegation last year as well, but this year I think I have found something to make it even better: disable amateur draft and have a deeper draft pool. Now, I have four leagues (Premier League, League Championship, Division 1 and Division 2) (named very similar to the EPL) each with a rookie level minors (basically the junior team). Trading is disabled between leagues, but FA is allowed b/t all 4 leagues. Ex: I used the New York Yankees as a PL team, and their rookie team is the New York Junior Yankees (but with no age limit) In 2007, I have added the feeder leagues, with a bunch of college and HS teams, that feed to the Premier League. In the PL, I have a draft of 5 rounds, but the pool is so large, that after the draft, the other 3 leagues will pick up the extra players, which i feel is a good way to spread out some of the talent. Sometimes, I have found that a lower league has picked up a FA rookie that was undrafted, and they become so great, that they end up going back to the Premier League after they are free agents. Another neat thing that I did was stagger in the leagues. I started with the PL in 1970, added LC in 1978, added D1 in 1984, and added D2 in 1994. I am starting to promote/relegate in 2003, with a US cup championship in the preseason for all teams. I find it to run very well, and I am going to start as an expansion team in the bottom league in 2003, and see if I can make it all the way to the top!

03-29-2007, 02:33 PM	#9
Ignatius J Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 76	Turner: Awesome. It's good to see you have it working. Some questions though and they might be dumb, but whatever: Do you use the edit league structure to do to the promotion/relegation? Do you have to do things at certain times, like Marky alluded to earlier? Does the talent (in general) get to be less with every step down? Did you do anything with the finances?