AI signing then quickly releasing FA's

markprior22 · 10-28-2004, 10:09 PM

I don't know if this is a common occurrence but I didn't notice it until tonight. The AI is signing some free agents for pretty high salaries, then releasing them a few days later. Here is an example (I don't know how to paste the actual player card, so here are the pertinent lines).

#58 Bill Kelson, Starting Pitcher, 33 yrs, No Team
Friday, 2/20/2009

Career Pitching Stats

Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER HR BB K CG SHO WHIP Teams
2004 67 0 2 4 37 2.50 79.1 79 24 22 0 20 53 0 0 1.25 MIL
2005 65 0 8 6 31 1.95 73.2 64 22 16 0 31 50 0 0 1.29 NYN,NL
2006 62 0 8 3 33 2.69 70.1 62 23 21 0 24 59 0 0 1.22 NYN
2007 45 25 13 5 8 3.97 149.2 138 72 66 0 50 123 0 0 1.26 NYN
2008 4 4 2 2 0 2.75 19.2 19 7 6 0 7 19 0 0 1.32 NYN
Total 243 29 33 20 109 3.00 392.2 362 148 131 0 132 304 0 0 1.26

Player History

Drafted in 6th round, 157th overall pick, by Milwaukee in 2004...
Earned first career win on 8/1/2004...
Signed as a free agent by New York (N) on 2/6/2005 to a 4-year deal worth $6,940,100 per year...
Was selected to the 2005 Allstar game...
Had first career hit (double) on 6/10/2007, off Daniel Mettler (FLO)...
Injured on 4/21/2008 with a Torn Tricep Muscle, out for full season...
Signed as a free agent by Baltimore on 2/1/2009 to a 6-year deal worth $9,198,200 per year...
Released by Baltimore on 2/10/2009...

Pitching Leader Boards Appearances

Saves
2004 - 37 - 4th
2005 - 31 - 7th
2006 - 33 - 9th

There are several players in my current free agent pool like this. The common thread is that they all seem to be injured. They were injured when they were signed though, so something seems wrong here.

JDOldSchool · 10-28-2004, 10:29 PM

Looks like that hasn't been fixed since the original 6.00 came out. I wonder if this is a known issue.

andjbock · 10-28-2004, 10:49 PM

I had a post about this in OOTP 5 Comments... My #4 batter from the year before was sigend as a FA and then got released less than a month into the season.

markprior22 · 10-29-2004, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andjbock

I had a post about this in OOTP 5 Comments... My #4 batter from the year before was sigend as a FA and then got released less than a month into the season.

Thats definitely not good but, in the above example, the signing and release both occured in early February.

I wonder if the AI is having problems dealing with all the 40 man roster/DFA/waiver stuff. Maybe it is signing players, then can't free up the room to put them on the 40 man roster and has to release them. Just an idea.

hefalumps · 10-29-2004, 07:36 PM

Since at least OOTP5 I have occasionally seen moderate (2 to 3 star) free agent veterans get signed by a team for over 1 mil and then get released the same day because they refused assignment to the minors. Kinda stupid - but I've just grown to ignore it. Not sure the computer's finances play by the rules anyway...

LVance · 10-29-2004, 10:48 PM

It's been happening since OOTP5 as far as I know.

William4192 · 10-30-2004, 02:19 PM

Kind of weird since FA go straight to AAA, right?

jmm8356 · 10-30-2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William4192

Kind of weird since FA go straight to AAA, right?

Not since 6.10. Now signed FAs on major league contracts go to Designated For Assignment, but those on minor league contracts (do not pass Go and) go straight to AAA.

William4192 · 10-30-2004, 06:08 PM

Ahh...I did not know this since I'm still on 6.03, I'll upgrade it on Monday.

markprior22 · 10-30-2004, 07:20 PM

So it seems like, in the example in the first post, after 10 days of sitting on DFA, the AI isn't able (or can't figure out how) to assign this guy to a roster so it releases him. I could see if this was a career minor leaguer or a 300K major leaguer. But, with the money we are talking, this would be similar to signing an Edgar Renteria type player to a 6 yr deal on Feb 1 and releasing him on Feb 9. God, I wish I had never noticed this. Sometimes it's better to have your head in the sand I guess.

JDOldSchool · 10-30-2004, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Since at least OOTP5 I have occasionally seen moderate (2 to 3 star) free agent veterans get signed by a team for over 1 mil and then get released the same day because they refused assignment to the minors. Kinda stupid - but I've just grown to ignore it. Not sure the computer's finances play by the rules anyway...

The computer-run teams don't have to pay the remainder of a contract when they release a player.

jbmagic · 10-31-2004, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

The computer-run teams don't have to pay the remainder of a contract when they release a player.

are you sure i tought it was fix with ootp 6

William4192 · 10-31-2004, 10:26 AM

Cpu should be under the same rules we are.

oldtime · 10-31-2004, 11:06 PM

I posted about this awhile ago. There should really be something programed in so that once the computer signs a free agent, he has to remain with the team even if it is in the minors until the end of the that season.

I have also seen players signed as free agents in early Feb. and traded the next week. What agent is going to let that happen? Even the Yankees will not sign a free agent and then release him. Banish him to Siberia perhaps.....

I mean it is already in the program that once you release a player he will not sign with you again that season. It just seems like the same thing in reverse should be true.

markprior22 · 10-31-2004, 11:33 PM

I really don't even mind that the CPU doesn't have to follow the same rules as a human player. At this point it just isn't able to "think" at a human level and that is understandable. What bothers me most is...the computer signs a guy to a 6 yr deal for 9+ mil per year and can't find a spot for him? There had to be someone on the 40 man that could be released if nothing else in order to keep this player. If they already were stacked at that particular position, then they shouldn't have bid on this FA.

SandMan · 11-01-2004, 01:29 AM

I found two players in the FA draft that were dropped by one of the previous years playoff contenders. It appears that the rosters were over the 25 limit at seasons end and the players were released instead of sent to the minors. Both players were 5 blue star players. I now check out the FA list after the season and before the playoffs - sign the players to their asking price and then sign them to longer deals after they are on my roster.....BTW I am using 6.11 so there is still an issue with the releasing of players.

I have also noticed in the draft logs players signing and then being released due to the fact that there were already 40 players with ML contracts on the squad. With no room on the 40 man roster the player sits in the DFA and the Computer AI simply releases the player. I have picked a few "cherries" this way also....I can't say this is a major bug - just an annoyance. Maybe the game should allow players with ML contracts to be off the 40 man roster, but this also caused problems.....

blackrussian · 11-01-2004, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markprior22

So it seems like, in the example in the first post, after 10 days of sitting on DFA, the AI isn't able (or can't figure out how) to assign this guy to a roster so it releases him. I could see if this was a career minor leaguer or a 300K major leaguer. But, with the money we are talking, this would be similar to signing an Edgar Renteria type player to a 6 yr deal on Feb 1 and releasing him on Feb 9. God, I wish I had never noticed this. Sometimes it's better to have your head in the sand I guess.

i see this happen all the time. its mostly fringe players, but occasionally i see a high priced player (like yr example) get released. i dont think theres a whole lot you can do about it. its a matter of making the AI smarter so that it can assess whether a free agent signing will be feasible, not only budget wise, but relative to the roster and the players own demands (decent veterans will not likely accept demotion to AAA, so why sign them in the first place?). i try not to delve too deeply in the AI teams transactions as well, its kinda depressing and alarming

kq76 · 11-09-2004, 09:00 PM

In only 1 pre-season 1 team signed and released 14 (yes, 14!) free agents. Another team signed and released the exact same player twice. No joke. I can provide the files.

William4192 · 11-10-2004, 08:41 AM

Weird that the guy resigned with the team after being cut.

ctorg · 11-10-2004, 08:58 AM

This is something that basically gets covered up by the fact that the AI is not responsible for the contracts of players it releases, which is a huge probleim IMO. If I release a guy who has a contract of $10mil per year for 7 years, I pay $70mil. If the AI does, it pays nothing. I can understand that this helps give the AI a competitive advantage, but it also covers up flaws in the game that make the AI behave in a very unrealistic manner.

10-28-2004, 10:09 PM	#1
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,235	AI signing then quickly releasing FA's I don't know if this is a common occurrence but I didn't notice it until tonight. The AI is signing some free agents for pretty high salaries, then releasing them a few days later. Here is an example (I don't know how to paste the actual player card, so here are the pertinent lines). #58 Bill Kelson, Starting Pitcher, 33 yrs, No Team Friday, 2/20/2009 Career Pitching Stats Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER HR BB K CG SHO WHIP Teams 2004 67 0 2 4 37 2.50 79.1 79 24 22 0 20 53 0 0 1.25 MIL 2005 65 0 8 6 31 1.95 73.2 64 22 16 0 31 50 0 0 1.29 NYN,NL 2006 62 0 8 3 33 2.69 70.1 62 23 21 0 24 59 0 0 1.22 NYN 2007 45 25 13 5 8 3.97 149.2 138 72 66 0 50 123 0 0 1.26 NYN 2008 4 4 2 2 0 2.75 19.2 19 7 6 0 7 19 0 0 1.32 NYN Total 243 29 33 20 109 3.00 392.2 362 148 131 0 132 304 0 0 1.26 Player History Drafted in 6th round, 157th overall pick, by Milwaukee in 2004... Earned first career win on 8/1/2004... Signed as a free agent by New York (N) on 2/6/2005 to a 4-year deal worth $6,940,100 per year... Was selected to the 2005 Allstar game... Had first career hit (double) on 6/10/2007, off Daniel Mettler (FLO)... Injured on 4/21/2008 with a Torn Tricep Muscle, out for full season... Signed as a free agent by Baltimore on 2/1/2009 to a 6-year deal worth $9,198,200 per year... Released by Baltimore on 2/10/2009... Pitching Leader Boards Appearances Saves 2004 - 37 - 4th 2005 - 31 - 7th 2006 - 33 - 9th There are several players in my current free agent pool like this. The common thread is that they all seem to be injured. They were injured when they were signed though, so something seems wrong here.

10-29-2004, 10:48 PM	#6
LVance Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 48	It's been happening since OOTP5 as far as I know. __________________ Larry Vance, Colorado Rockies [ATH] http://www.raisedbykubrick.com/

10-30-2004, 02:19 PM	#7
William4192 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,625	Kind of weird since FA go straight to AAA, right? __________________ What is this about Rhode Island? It is neither Road or Island. Come check out the PBA. http://www.pioneerbaseballassociation.com Or email at pbacommish@pioneerbaseballassociation.com

10-30-2004, 06:08 PM	#9
William4192 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,625	Ahh...I did not know this since I'm still on 6.03, I'll upgrade it on Monday. __________________ What is this about Rhode Island? It is neither Road or Island. Come check out the PBA. http://www.pioneerbaseballassociation.com Or email at pbacommish@pioneerbaseballassociation.com

10-31-2004, 10:26 AM	#13
William4192 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,625	Cpu should be under the same rules we are. __________________ What is this about Rhode Island? It is neither Road or Island. Come check out the PBA. http://www.pioneerbaseballassociation.com Or email at pbacommish@pioneerbaseballassociation.com

10-28-2004, 10:29 PM	#2
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	Looks like that hasn't been fixed since the original 6.00 came out. I wonder if this is a known issue.

10-28-2004, 10:49 PM	#3
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,637	I had a post about this in OOTP 5 Comments... My #4 batter from the year before was sigend as a FA and then got released less than a month into the season.

10-29-2004, 07:36 PM	#5
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,378	Since at least OOTP5 I have occasionally seen moderate (2 to 3 star) free agent veterans get signed by a team for over 1 mil and then get released the same day because they refused assignment to the minors. Kinda stupid - but I've just grown to ignore it. Not sure the computer's finances play by the rules anyway...

10-30-2004, 07:20 PM	#10
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,235	So it seems like, in the example in the first post, after 10 days of sitting on DFA, the AI isn't able (or can't figure out how) to assign this guy to a roster so it releases him. I could see if this was a career minor leaguer or a 300K major leaguer. But, with the money we are talking, this would be similar to signing an Edgar Renteria type player to a 6 yr deal on Feb 1 and releasing him on Feb 9. God, I wish I had never noticed this. Sometimes it's better to have your head in the sand I guess.

10-31-2004, 11:06 PM	#14
oldtime Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 127	I posted about this awhile ago. There should really be something programed in so that once the computer signs a free agent, he has to remain with the team even if it is in the minors until the end of the that season. I have also seen players signed as free agents in early Feb. and traded the next week. What agent is going to let that happen? Even the Yankees will not sign a free agent and then release him. Banish him to Siberia perhaps..... I mean it is already in the program that once you release a player he will not sign with you again that season. It just seems like the same thing in reverse should be true. Last edited by oldtime; 10-31-2004 at 11:08 PM.

10-31-2004, 11:33 PM	#15
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,235	I really don't even mind that the CPU doesn't have to follow the same rules as a human player. At this point it just isn't able to "think" at a human level and that is understandable. What bothers me most is...the computer signs a guy to a 6 yr deal for 9+ mil per year and can't find a spot for him? There had to be someone on the 40 man that could be released if nothing else in order to keep this player. If they already were stacked at that particular position, then they shouldn't have bid on this FA.

11-01-2004, 01:29 AM	#16
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	Damn...just noticed... I found two players in the FA draft that were dropped by one of the previous years playoff contenders. It appears that the rosters were over the 25 limit at seasons end and the players were released instead of sent to the minors. Both players were 5 blue star players. I now check out the FA list after the season and before the playoffs - sign the players to their asking price and then sign them to longer deals after they are on my roster.....BTW I am using 6.11 so there is still an issue with the releasing of players. I have also noticed in the draft logs players signing and then being released due to the fact that there were already 40 players with ML contracts on the squad. With no room on the 40 man roster the player sits in the DFA and the Computer AI simply releases the player. I have picked a few "cherries" this way also....I can't say this is a major bug - just an annoyance. Maybe the game should allow players with ML contracts to be off the 40 man roster, but this also caused problems.....

11-09-2004, 09:00 PM	#18
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,796	In only 1 pre-season 1 team signed and released 14 (yes, 14!) free agents. Another team signed and released the exact same player twice. No joke. I can provide the files. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) Last edited by kq76; 11-09-2004 at 09:30 PM.

11-10-2004, 08:41 AM	#19
William4192 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,625	Weird that the guy resigned with the team after being cut. __________________ What is this about Rhode Island? It is neither Road or Island. Come check out the PBA. http://www.pioneerbaseballassociation.com Or email at pbacommish@pioneerbaseballassociation.com

11-10-2004, 08:58 AM	#20
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	This is something that basically gets covered up by the fact that the AI is not responsible for the contracts of players it releases, which is a huge probleim IMO. If I release a guy who has a contract of $10mil per year for 7 years, I pay $70mil. If the AI does, it pays nothing. I can understand that this helps give the AI a competitive advantage, but it also covers up flaws in the game that make the AI behave in a very unrealistic manner. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils