Clutch does exist in baseball

Syd Thrift · 05-18-2004, 06:47 PM

All of you statheadzzz throw your numbers around to prove your different theories but it seems to me that we are not watching the same game. You can create statistics to back up whatever conclusion you like and it seems many of you do but it's just plain ridiculous and I for one am sick of it.

You can't watch the postseason and tell me that Derek Jeter isn't clutch. His postseason performance alone justifies his salary. When the game is on the line this is the guy I want up. You can make up whatever stats you want but the fact of the matter is Jeter is clutch.

You can't tell me you wouldn't want Curt Schilling out there pitching for your team in the postseason over some inexperienced kid. Schill has amazing poise and is unflappable under pressure. I want a guy like him pitching the big game.

You people who have very little experience with the game make up these numbers and say that what the greatest baseball minds in the world have held true for years is wrong while making up some wacky statistic to back it up. Maybe you should get out on a baseball field and see what the game is really like. I think most of you would be shocked to learn your theories have no real merit in the real world.

Joe Morgan · 05-18-2004, 06:51 PM

You tell them Syd! These kids just amaze me with these junk statistics they come up with. It makes me laugh that they actually believe some of this stuff they come up with. Real baseball players like me know what it really takes to win a game. With out the experience I don't see how these guys can expect to be taken seriously.

BigBambino · 05-18-2004, 06:54 PM

I voted yes, Obviously!

dougaiton · 05-18-2004, 07:37 PM

Rather worryingly, a poll started by two aliases lampooning two of the most ludicrously daft thinkers in the modern game is currently carrying their obscure motion by a score of 8-1-1! I'm not even going to vote, to preserve the glory.

Syd Thrift!

treedom · 05-18-2004, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Syd Thrift
All of you statheadzzz throw your numbers around to prove your different theories but it seems to me that we are not watching the same game. You can create statistics to back up whatever conclusion you like and it seems many of you do but it's just plain ridiculous and I for one am sick of it.

You can't watch the postseason and tell me that Derek Jeter isn't clutch. His postseason performance alone justifies his salary. When the game is on the line this is the guy I want up. You can make up whatever stats you want but the fact of the matter is Jeter is clutch.

You can't tell me you wouldn't want Curt Schilling out there pitching for your team in the postseason over some inexperienced kid. Schill has amazing poise and is unflappable under pressure. I want a guy like him pitching the big game.

You people who have very little experience with the game make up these numbers and say that what the greatest baseball minds in the world have held true for years is wrong while making up some wacky statistic to back it up. Maybe you should get out on a baseball field and see what the game is really like. I think most of you would be shocked to learn your theories have no real merit in the real world.

Nah, dont like that.

yankeesrule · 05-18-2004, 07:40 PM

not sure i'd want schilling out there. if you remember back to the 2001 WS he gave up a then go ahead homer to then rookie in his first WS alfonso soriano that shoulda won the game if rivera coulda held the lead.

Gastric ReFlux · 05-18-2004, 07:50 PM

I've seen Ross Gload, I know clutch.

CMH · 05-19-2004, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Syd Thrift

You can't watch the postseason and tell me that Derek Jeter isn't clutch. His postseason performance alone justifies his salary. When the game is on the line this is the guy I want up. You can make up whatever stats you want but the fact of the matter is Jeter is clutch.

His postseason numbers match his career numbers. So what's the difference? Seems to me that Jeter is always performing the same.

Quote:

You can't tell me you wouldn't want Curt Schilling out there pitching for your team in the postseason over some inexperienced kid. Schill has amazing poise and is unflappable under pressure. I want a guy like him pitching the big game.

I'd want Curt Schilling on the mound no matter the day, night, situation, or series. What's your argument here?

Quote:

You people who have very little experience with the game make up these numbers and say that what the greatest baseball minds in the world have held true for years is wrong while making up some wacky statistic to back it up. Maybe you should get out on a baseball field and see what the game is really like. I think most of you would be shocked to learn your theories have no real merit in the real world.

I'm confident that most of us have played some level of baseball. If you need an "important" game to force you to play at an increased level, then maybe you shouldn't be playing the game.

Dargone · 05-19-2004, 01:33 AM

Quote:

All of you statheadzzz throw your numbers around to prove your different theories but it seems to me that we are not watching the same game. You can create statistics to back up whatever conclusion you like and it seems many of you do but it's just plain ridiculous and I for one am sick of it.

Guuuhhh...

P.S. Not my alias

ctorg · 05-19-2004, 08:59 AM

The craziest thing here is the poll results.

fat dude · 05-19-2004, 10:54 AM

See, I always thought of clutch as the ability to simply put up your normal numbers under pressure. Haven't we all seen a guy who you know is likely to choke with the crap on the line? But since I have been around here, I see that there are those who seem to think that certain guys get better in "clutch" situations. I don't see how that makes any sense. Just psych yourself up every at bat as if the game is on the line. So if you met me on the street and asked me if there are clutch players, I would say yes. But I guess I define it differently. So here I should probably vote no. But then again, how are you defining clutch?

CMH · 05-19-2004, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fat dude
See, I always thought of clutch as the ability to simply put up your normal numbers under pressure. Haven't we all seen a guy who you know is likely to choke with the crap on the line? But since I have been around here, I see that there are those who seem to think that certain guys get better in "clutch" situations. I don't see how that makes any sense. Just psych yourself up every at bat as if the game is on the line. So if you met me on the street and asked me if there are clutch players, I would say yes. But I guess I define it differently. So here I should probably vote no. But then again, how are you defining clutch?

It should be defined as those that can or can not perform in intenese or critical situations.

The definition is fine. The problem is that the numbers used to define clutch in baseball conflict every year. One year, Player A is hitting .345 in clutch situations, the next year he's hitting .278.

If the player is indeed clutch, he would have a batting average that is clutch at all times. Now, yes, someone can use the argument that people have off years, but numbers still show that player's have inconsistant stats in clutch situations over the years.

Basically, it doesn't exist and can't exist if there isn't any true way to consistantly present it.

Figures don't lie and liars figure.

Skipaway · 05-19-2004, 11:26 AM

Actually with the right definition, you can find clutch ability in baseball.

Some players indeed hit slightly better than others with runner on base due to infielder positioning. If you define "runner on base" as clutch situation, then yes some players are more clutch.

CMH · 05-19-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipaway

Some players indeed hit slightly better than others with runner on base due to infielder positioning.

I see your point, but this statement alone could kill the theory.

dougaiton · 05-19-2004, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipaway
Actually with the right definition, you can find clutch ability in baseball.

Some players indeed hit slightly better than others with runner on base due to infielder positioning. If you define "runner on base" as clutch situation, then yes some players are more clutch.

Kinda, but I'd have to split hairs!

The point of having clutch ability is that there is a direct correlation between 'clutchness' and the ability. If the infield didn't move, but the clutch situation remained, they would be no more clutch than anyone else. Similarly, Todd Helton hits better at Coors than he does on the road - that doesn't mean he has a skill for hitting in his home stadium, just that the conditions there make it easier to hit.

IatricSB · 05-19-2004, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Syd Thrift
All of you statheadzzz ....

Not all.... but then you're a lame alias, so what's the use.

mlyons · 05-19-2004, 04:52 PM

Is this a poll or a troll?

Syd Thrift · 05-19-2004, 05:20 PM

I'm glad to see this poll is making some sense and right now people who believe clutch exists is leading. Although I still can't believe about half of you don't believe it does. I huess this poll will just have to serve as the divider between those who truly understand baseball and those who don't.

IatricSB · 05-19-2004, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mlyons
Is this a poll or a troll?

Now I'm convinced it's the latter....

twins15 · 05-19-2004, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Syd Thrift
I'm glad to see this poll is making some sense and right now people who believe clutch exists is leading. Although I still can't believe about half of you don't believe it does. I huess this poll will just have to serve as the divider between those who truly understand baseball and those who don't.

go away alias

View Poll Results: Does clutch exist in baseball?
Yes	20	45.45%
No	21	47.73%
You have a GM job you'd like to offer me	3	6.82%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

05-18-2004, 06:47 PM	#1
Syd Thrift Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,675	Clutch does exist in baseball All of you statheadzzz throw your numbers around to prove your different theories but it seems to me that we are not watching the same game. You can create statistics to back up whatever conclusion you like and it seems many of you do but it's just plain ridiculous and I for one am sick of it. You can't watch the postseason and tell me that Derek Jeter isn't clutch. His postseason performance alone justifies his salary. When the game is on the line this is the guy I want up. You can make up whatever stats you want but the fact of the matter is Jeter is clutch. You can't tell me you wouldn't want Curt Schilling out there pitching for your team in the postseason over some inexperienced kid. Schill has amazing poise and is unflappable under pressure. I want a guy like him pitching the big game. You people who have very little experience with the game make up these numbers and say that what the greatest baseball minds in the world have held true for years is wrong while making up some wacky statistic to back it up. Maybe you should get out on a baseball field and see what the game is really like. I think most of you would be shocked to learn your theories have no real merit in the real world.

05-18-2004, 06:51 PM	#2
Joe Morgan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 273	You tell them Syd! These kids just amaze me with these junk statistics they come up with. It makes me laugh that they actually believe some of this stuff they come up with. Real baseball players like me know what it really takes to win a game. With out the experience I don't see how these guys can expect to be taken seriously. __________________ Clutch ability and veteran leadership are two of the most important intangibles that it takes to win.

05-18-2004, 07:37 PM	#4
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	Rather worryingly, a poll started by two aliases lampooning two of the most ludicrously daft thinkers in the modern game is currently carrying their obscure motion by a score of 8-1-1! I'm not even going to vote, to preserve the glory. Syd Thrift! __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

05-19-2004, 08:59 AM	#10
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	The craziest thing here is the poll results. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

05-18-2004, 06:54 PM	#3
BigBambino All Star Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Auburn, ME Posts: 1,315	I voted yes, Obviously!

05-18-2004, 07:40 PM	#6
yankeesrule All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,367	not sure i'd want schilling out there. if you remember back to the 2001 WS he gave up a then go ahead homer to then rookie in his first WS alfonso soriano that shoulda won the game if rivera coulda held the lead.

05-18-2004, 07:50 PM	#7
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	I've seen Ross Gload, I know clutch.

05-19-2004, 10:54 AM	#11
fat dude Major Leagues Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 392	See, I always thought of clutch as the ability to simply put up your normal numbers under pressure. Haven't we all seen a guy who you know is likely to choke with the crap on the line? But since I have been around here, I see that there are those who seem to think that certain guys get better in "clutch" situations. I don't see how that makes any sense. Just psych yourself up every at bat as if the game is on the line. So if you met me on the street and asked me if there are clutch players, I would say yes. But I guess I define it differently. So here I should probably vote no. But then again, how are you defining clutch?

05-19-2004, 11:26 AM	#13
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	Actually with the right definition, you can find clutch ability in baseball. Some players indeed hit slightly better than others with runner on base due to infielder positioning. If you define "runner on base" as clutch situation, then yes some players are more clutch. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

05-19-2004, 04:52 PM	#17
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	Is this a poll or a troll? __________________ Things can always be worse.