Why are dugouts below ground level?

OldGiants · 10-23-2003, 08:47 AM

The simple, and perhaps correct, answer is to provide protection from screaming fouls.

Is there a more accurate answer that time has forgotten?

I'm thinking of the origin of the term 'bleachers' which a lot of people assume has to do with sitting out in the sun and getting your hair bleached. In fact, the term arouse because the original construction resembled the racks used by fishermen to dry codfish, and these racks were called 'bleachers' because the drying process was called 'bleaching.'

So is there any strange reason baseball, out of all sports, chose to set its benches below ground level?

Google and Ask Jeeves haven't been useful, so far.

Enkiel · 10-23-2003, 08:59 AM

would think that it is made so fan are closer to the already far away players on the field

kq76 · 10-23-2003, 10:34 AM

To make them like bunkers in a war? If the other team starts shooting, all you have to do is duck, throw a grenade or two..

Seriously though, I have no idea. Interesting question though. I always thought it was protection from fouls too, but would stadium builders in the 1800s really have taken player protection into consideration? When did dugouts come into being?

Gastric ReFlux · 10-23-2003, 10:38 AM

Well they couldn't be called dugouts if they were above ground, then they would be aboveouts.

LivnLegend · 10-23-2003, 11:24 AM

The answer is actually quite simple and you may kick yourself for not thinking of it. The only real reason the dugouts are "dug out" rather than ground level is it reduces a potential obstruction for the fans.

kq76 · 10-23-2003, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LivnLegend
The answer is actually quite simple and you may kick yourself for not thinking of it. The only real reason the dugouts are "dug out" rather than ground level is it reduces a potential obstruction for the fans.

I thought about that, but there's no reason you can't just start building the bleachers higher than the ground. Maybe it was cheaper that way though..

Gastric ReFlux · 10-23-2003, 11:33 AM

Actually, it was because at that time, most of the owners were part of a movement known as "The Mole Persons' Alliance of Wealthy Eccentrics" and they thought that by putting the players in dugouts, it would encourage the public to move underground.

Enkiel · 10-23-2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LivnLegend
The answer is actually quite simple and you may kick yourself for not thinking of it. The only real reason the dugouts are "dug out" rather than ground level is it reduces a potential obstruction for the fans.

if that's what they wanted, all they had to do is put some electric line around the field kinda like cow's field, so no fans, even cubs fan, could touch the ball without regretting it...... real bad

Rizon · 10-23-2003, 11:53 AM

So they can have floods. So obviously Noah is behind it, but which 2 baseball players would he pick?

streetballer67 · 10-23-2003, 04:13 PM

I'm not sure they are below ground level but they are a lot cooler that way anyways.

Rizon · 10-23-2003, 04:18 PM

I'm just gonna go out here on a limb and say its easier for the fans to see over the dugout since its lower

streetballer67 · 10-23-2003, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rizon
So they can have floods. So obviously Noah is behind it, but which 2 baseball players would he pick?

Not Bonds

BleedingCubbyBlue · 10-23-2003, 05:17 PM

Me: Why are dugouts below ground level?

ChatBot: Reductionism.

Me: Okay, Thanks.

ChatBot: OK with me too.

streetballer67 · 10-23-2003, 05:33 PM

What exactly is reductionism?

fat dude · 10-23-2003, 05:39 PM

Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: re·duc·tion·ism
Pronunciation: ri-'d&k-sh&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
Date: 1943
1 : the attempt to explain all biological processes by the same explanations (as by physical laws) that chemists and physicists use to interpret inanimate matter; also : the theory that complete reductionism is possible
2 : a procedure or theory that reduces complex data or phenomena to simple terms; especially : OVERSIMPLIFICATION
- re·duc·tion·ist /-sh(&-)nist/ noun or adjective
- re·duc·tion·is·tic /-"d&k-sh&-'nis-tik/ adjective

streetballer67 · 10-23-2003, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the definition fat dude...That Chatbot sucks. He is wrong again!

OldGiants · 10-23-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LivnLegend
The answer is actually quite simple and you may kick yourself for not thinking of it. The only real reason the dugouts are "dug out" rather than ground level is it reduces a potential obstruction for the fans.

I considered that, but think of all the stadia where the dugouts are set back into the grandstand area and seats flow down on either side of the dugout. No reason the seats behind the dugout could not have been placed higher up, is there? I don't think fan obstruction consideration is the controlling architectural concept.

Also, in many less than major league parks, the dugouts DO block fan views.

I keep hoping to find a more piquant explanation, like the original ballparks were placed on State Fair Grounds and the dugouts were originally pig troughs or some such.

LivnLegend · 10-23-2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OldGiants
I considered that, but think of all the stadia where the dugouts are set back into the grandstand area and seats flow down on either side of the dugout. No reason the seats behind the dugout could not have been placed higher up, is there? I don't think fan obstruction consideration is the controlling architectural concept.

Also, in many less than major league parks, the dugouts DO block fan views.

I keep hoping to find a more piquant explanation, like the original ballparks were placed on State Fair Grounds and the dugouts were originally pig troughs or some such.

If you are looking for a "deeper" reasoning behind the sunken dugout, you may be disappointed. As with many things in baseball, tradition holds firm. Although modern ballpark architects have many ways to build around the need of sinking the dugout, both from an aesthetic point and a functionality point, imagine if they ignored the tradition and built a ground level "dugout"! Baseball purists would be outraged!

Anyway, good luck on your pursuit.

Skipaway · 10-24-2003, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OldGiants

Also, in many less than major league parks, the dugouts DO block fan views.

Wouldn't that be another proof for dugouts being below ground level? Only MLB caliber parks would worry about having more good seats to generate more revenues.

Kelric · 10-24-2003, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rizon
So they can have floods. So obviously Noah is behind it, but which 2 baseball players would he pick?

Can Madonna or Geena Davis from A League Of Their Own count?

10-23-2003, 08:47 AM	#1
OldGiants Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 211	Why are dugouts below ground level? The simple, and perhaps correct, answer is to provide protection from screaming fouls. Is there a more accurate answer that time has forgotten? I'm thinking of the origin of the term 'bleachers' which a lot of people assume has to do with sitting out in the sun and getting your hair bleached. In fact, the term arouse because the original construction resembled the racks used by fishermen to dry codfish, and these racks were called 'bleachers' because the drying process was called 'bleaching.' So is there any strange reason baseball, out of all sports, chose to set its benches below ground level? Google and Ask Jeeves haven't been useful, so far.

10-23-2003, 08:59 AM	#2
Enkiel Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Québec City Posts: 155	would think that it is made so fan are closer to the already far away players on the field __________________ Taken from Quebec's TV Show : You know why we love Viet Nam people so much? they won agains USA

10-23-2003, 10:34 AM	#3
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,099	To make them like bunkers in a war? If the other team starts shooting, all you have to do is duck, throw a grenade or two.. Seriously though, I have no idea. Interesting question though. I always thought it was protection from fouls too, but would stadium builders in the 1800s really have taken player protection into consideration? When did dugouts come into being? __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

10-23-2003, 11:24 AM	#5
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	The answer is actually quite simple and you may kick yourself for not thinking of it. The only real reason the dugouts are "dug out" rather than ground level is it reduces a potential obstruction for the fans. __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

10-23-2003, 11:53 AM	#9
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,370	So they can have floods. So obviously Noah is behind it, but which 2 baseball players would he pick? __________________ JML MILKSHAKES

10-23-2003, 10:38 AM	#4
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Well they couldn't be called dugouts if they were above ground, then they would be aboveouts.

10-23-2003, 11:33 AM	#7
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Actually, it was because at that time, most of the owners were part of a movement known as "The Mole Persons' Alliance of Wealthy Eccentrics" and they thought that by putting the players in dugouts, it would encourage the public to move underground.

10-23-2003, 04:13 PM	#10
streetballer67 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,004	I'm not sure they are below ground level but they are a lot cooler that way anyways. __________________ Visit Here!!!

10-23-2003, 04:18 PM	#11
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,370	I'm just gonna go out here on a limb and say its easier for the fans to see over the dugout since its lower __________________ JML MILKSHAKES

10-23-2003, 05:17 PM	#13
BleedingCubbyBlue All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Gurnee, IL Posts: 601	Me: Why are dugouts below ground level? ChatBot: Reductionism. Me: Okay, Thanks. ChatBot: OK with me too. __________________ http://www.otbaonline.com

10-23-2003, 05:33 PM	#14
streetballer67 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,004	What exactly is reductionism? __________________ Visit Here!!!

10-23-2003, 05:39 PM	#15
fat dude Major Leagues Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 392	Merriam-Webster: Main Entry: re·duc·tion·ism Pronunciation: ri-'d&k-sh&-"ni-z&m Function: noun Date: 1943 1 : the attempt to explain all biological processes by the same explanations (as by physical laws) that chemists and physicists use to interpret inanimate matter; also : the theory that complete reductionism is possible 2 : a procedure or theory that reduces complex data or phenomena to simple terms; especially : OVERSIMPLIFICATION - re·duc·tion·ist /-sh(&-)nist/ noun or adjective - re·duc·tion·is·tic /-"d&k-sh&-'nis-tik/ adjective

10-23-2003, 05:52 PM	#16
streetballer67 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,004	Thanks for the definition fat dude...That Chatbot sucks. He is wrong again! __________________ Visit Here!!!