Need commish advice

stinie3 · 08-18-2003, 09:29 PM

I commish an online league, and have come upon a situation I need advice on.

In my league, one of the teams made a mistake and changed his team from "human controlled" to computer controlled. The computer manager then cut some players and promoted some players. Now, he has paid for the contracts of the cut players, and the players who had minor league contracts and got called up will now be eligible for arbitration and free agency sooner. This happens to be the same owner who traded Burrell away for a few relatively unknown prospects and demanded I reverse the trade because he didn't get enough in return. This is also an owner who got frustrated someone didn't accept his trade offer, so forwarded me a message stating that they agreed to the trade, simply because he was "upset" the trade wasn't agreed on right that second (the trade never got agreed to) - so obviously it's a guy I'm not happy with anyway, but I don't want that to affect what is done in this situation. He is saying his team should revert back to what it was before he made that mistake (changing it to computer manager). I, however, do not feel anything should be done because the error definitely occured on his end. His argument is that if it can be done without affecting other teams records, it should be done and his roster returned. However, it would indirectly affect some teams records - he has had some of those callups play/pitch some very good games, games he may have lost if they weren't playing.

What should be done in this situation? All opinions are sought. Thanks!!!

dougk62 · 08-18-2003, 09:46 PM

It sounds to me like a problem that he has. I personally would approach it from that angle. It appears he is a troublemaker type. Does he deserve the special treatment for the betterment of the league? Sounds to me like that answer to that question is no. Is his team better now? Sounds like it is. I'd leave things alone. Maybe you'll get lucky and lose an owner.

crackpott · 08-18-2003, 09:50 PM

if you didn't want your "not being happy with him" to enter into the decision you wouldn't have posted it.

My advice is let him get screwed. Even if it was accidental, he would have had to export AFTER doing it in order for it to register.

obaslg · 08-19-2003, 09:03 AM

I don't think this is an issue of what you "should" do. This guy has no complaint that your declining to do substantial changes to fix his mistake is somehow an injustice. However, I also don't think it's any injustice to fix it, unless you've refused to do that for others before (doubt it's happened).

The question, then, is simply whether you want to help the guy. I personally probably would in the usual case, but there's no way I would in this case. First off, I would have booted him immediately after the fraudulent trade mail. Second, it sounds like he's both a screw-up and a whiner - I can take either one of those, but the package is pretty bad. Third, it sounds like that personality is really coming through here - my sense is that he probably came to you saying "It's not my fault I hit the stupid computer owner button. You have to fix this!"

Most of my owners know that there are two good ways to ask me to do something: 1) argue rationally that it's more just, based on the rules, earlier decisions, and basic fairness; or 2) admit they screwed up and ask me nicely to fix it. Guys like this guy usually don't last long, b/c they quit, frustrated by the ineffectiveness of their alternating whining and shouting.

OK, so maybe I have a little issue here...

Qrashman · 08-19-2003, 04:09 PM

If you've already simmed games since the screw-up, you can't re-sim. That's a no-no.

You can give him back all the cut players and return the money that he spent cutting them (a lot of work for you) but thats it, in my opinion.

Re-simming is almost never an option.

D Love · 08-19-2003, 04:33 PM

How did these changes get exported? He changed it to computer controlled, then exported, and then a few sims later, complained about it?? Sounds fishy to me.

sporr · 08-19-2003, 05:23 PM

Assuming you really want to keep this guy in your league, I would resign the guys that were cut and give him back the money spent cutting them. The loss of auto renew and arbitration years he'll just have to live with.

spleen1015 · 08-19-2003, 05:34 PM

I agree with what sporr has suggested.

kq76 · 08-19-2003, 05:56 PM

I'm not a commish and I realize I'm a bit of a hard ass, but I'd dump him. It sounds like he's causing the league grief and that shouldn't be what it's about. If reversing his mistakes is the only question you are considering at the moment, I'd say, "No. Your action, be it accidental or not, has irreversibly impacted the league in determining the outcome of games. Reversing your action will only add to the mistakes."

stinie3 · 08-19-2003, 09:33 PM

Thanks for all the advice guys - you have all pretty much just confirmed what I thought was the proper action, no action at all. It's his mistake, he must live with the outcome. I'm not going to dump him (I wouldn't mind losing him at all, but don't feel he should be dumped over what he's done) but I'm not going to do anything special to keep him in the league either. If he quits, he quits. That would be fine with me, and I know several owners who don't really like him anyway.

Thanks for your help!

HolyCow98 · 08-20-2003, 02:58 AM

I would weed out the negative bad apples you may have....this guy seems like a bad apple to me...and his email of a trade that turned out to be a fraud...is reason enough for dismissal in my opinion.

DevilsAdvocate · 08-20-2003, 01:28 PM

Sounds like an owner who would get the swift kick with my boot and out of the league.

Darkheath · 08-20-2003, 01:43 PM

Let us know how this turns out, Stinie!

tcblcommish · 08-20-2003, 11:43 PM

I would have to agree with the majority in this case and boot this pathetic owner out on his butt. I have had some run ins with some real loser owners before and this sounds like an owner I had in a short stint.

He had complained about a deal that had never been agreed to and whined and complained for ages and I simply had enough, and booted him.

Now onto another question, how is it possible to change the ownership of a team? Wouldn't that be Commish password protected?

08-18-2003, 09:29 PM	#1
stinie3 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 75	Need commish advice I commish an online league, and have come upon a situation I need advice on. In my league, one of the teams made a mistake and changed his team from "human controlled" to computer controlled. The computer manager then cut some players and promoted some players. Now, he has paid for the contracts of the cut players, and the players who had minor league contracts and got called up will now be eligible for arbitration and free agency sooner. This happens to be the same owner who traded Burrell away for a few relatively unknown prospects and demanded I reverse the trade because he didn't get enough in return. This is also an owner who got frustrated someone didn't accept his trade offer, so forwarded me a message stating that they agreed to the trade, simply because he was "upset" the trade wasn't agreed on right that second (the trade never got agreed to) - so obviously it's a guy I'm not happy with anyway, but I don't want that to affect what is done in this situation. He is saying his team should revert back to what it was before he made that mistake (changing it to computer manager). I, however, do not feel anything should be done because the error definitely occured on his end. His argument is that if it can be done without affecting other teams records, it should be done and his roster returned. However, it would indirectly affect some teams records - he has had some of those callups play/pitch some very good games, games he may have lost if they weren't playing. What should be done in this situation? All opinions are sought. Thanks!!!

08-18-2003, 09:46 PM	#2
dougk62 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tonganoxie, KS Posts: 304	It sounds to me like a problem that he has. I personally would approach it from that angle. It appears he is a troublemaker type. Does he deserve the special treatment for the betterment of the league? Sounds to me like that answer to that question is no. Is his team better now? Sounds like it is. I'd leave things alone. Maybe you'll get lucky and lose an owner. __________________ NABA - Calgary Wolfpack JOBL - Jacksonville Express Creator of Offensive Value Rating Reports

08-18-2003, 09:50 PM	#3
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	if you didn't want your "not being happy with him" to enter into the decision you wouldn't have posted it. My advice is let him get screwed. Even if it was accidental, he would have had to export AFTER doing it in order for it to register. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

08-19-2003, 09:03 AM	#4
obaslg All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 887	I don't think this is an issue of what you "should" do. This guy has no complaint that your declining to do substantial changes to fix his mistake is somehow an injustice. However, I also don't think it's any injustice to fix it, unless you've refused to do that for others before (doubt it's happened). The question, then, is simply whether you want to help the guy. I personally probably would in the usual case, but there's no way I would in this case. First off, I would have booted him immediately after the fraudulent trade mail. Second, it sounds like he's both a screw-up and a whiner - I can take either one of those, but the package is pretty bad. Third, it sounds like that personality is really coming through here - my sense is that he probably came to you saying "It's not my fault I hit the stupid computer owner button. You have to fix this!" Most of my owners know that there are two good ways to ask me to do something: 1) argue rationally that it's more just, based on the rules, earlier decisions, and basic fairness; or 2) admit they screwed up and ask me nicely to fix it. Guys like this guy usually don't last long, b/c they quit, frustrated by the ineffectiveness of their alternating whining and shouting. OK, so maybe I have a little issue here... __________________ Realy good musition of many insterments, including the hyperbolic vitriol.

08-19-2003, 04:09 PM	#5
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	If you've already simmed games since the screw-up, you can't re-sim. That's a no-no. You can give him back all the cut players and return the money that he spent cutting them (a lot of work for you) but thats it, in my opinion. Re-simming is almost never an option. __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

08-19-2003, 04:33 PM	#6
D Love All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 904	How did these changes get exported? He changed it to computer controlled, then exported, and then a few sims later, complained about it?? Sounds fishy to me.

08-19-2003, 05:23 PM	#7
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	Assuming you really want to keep this guy in your league, I would resign the guys that were cut and give him back the money spent cutting them. The loss of auto renew and arbitration years he'll just have to live with.

08-19-2003, 05:34 PM	#8
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,002	I agree with what sporr has suggested.

08-19-2003, 05:56 PM	#9
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,782	I'm not a commish and I realize I'm a bit of a hard ass, but I'd dump him. It sounds like he's causing the league grief and that shouldn't be what it's about. If reversing his mistakes is the only question you are considering at the moment, I'd say, "No. Your action, be it accidental or not, has irreversibly impacted the league in determining the outcome of games. Reversing your action will only add to the mistakes." __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

08-19-2003, 09:33 PM	#10
stinie3 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 75	Thanks for all the advice guys - you have all pretty much just confirmed what I thought was the proper action, no action at all. It's his mistake, he must live with the outcome. I'm not going to dump him (I wouldn't mind losing him at all, but don't feel he should be dumped over what he's done) but I'm not going to do anything special to keep him in the league either. If he quits, he quits. That would be fine with me, and I know several owners who don't really like him anyway. Thanks for your help!

08-20-2003, 02:58 AM	#11
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	I would weed out the negative bad apples you may have....this guy seems like a bad apple to me...and his email of a trade that turned out to be a fraud...is reason enough for dismissal in my opinion. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

08-20-2003, 01:28 PM	#12
DevilsAdvocate Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Belize Posts: 14	Sounds like an owner who would get the swift kick with my boot and out of the league. __________________ ________________________ Le veré en infierno

08-20-2003, 01:43 PM	#13
Darkheath Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 46	Let us know how this turns out, Stinie! __________________ ... missed it by THAT much! - Maxwell Smart

08-20-2003, 11:43 PM	#14
tcblcommish Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,439	I would have to agree with the majority in this case and boot this pathetic owner out on his butt. I have had some run ins with some real loser owners before and this sounds like an owner I had in a short stint. He had complained about a deal that had never been agreed to and whined and complained for ages and I simply had enough, and booted him. Now onto another question, how is it possible to change the ownership of a team? Wouldn't that be Commish password protected?