Successful Development Labs aren't actually changing ratings

[TeeClev]

Regularly encountering successful or better development labs not actually increasing attributes. Here is one of the more recent/extreme examples. Had it worked, the players power would now be 75. Screenshots included. Was curious if there's any plans to patch this in a future update?

[koohead]

Possible that the reflection is impacted by Scouting? If you look under the hood, or change scouting to be 100% accurate, do you see positive changes?

[r0nster]

thinking you might have to wait till scout at month change then the ratings change at that point ??

[Eburaci]

I am seeing this too! It looks like sometimes the ratings do change in the editor, but other times they do not.

[Bagpipes5]

Originally Posted by Eburaci

I am seeing this too! It looks like sometimes the ratings do change in the editor, but other times they do not.

I've been looking and I've seen it a few times. I have a 2B with 75 Avoid K's who spent the off-season working on his eye. He critted it and the email said he got 20 points to avoid K's. When I checked in ST his avoid K's was still 75. Maybe there is an issue applying the bonus to ratings that will go beyond max? It didn't look like any of my other successful players had any issues.

[Carplos]

Is that not 20 pts on the 600 pt scale?

I can't imagine someone jumped 20 pts on a 20-80 scale due to the development lab. Especially going over the "max" by 15.

But maybe?

[Bagpipes5]

Originally Posted by Carplos

Is that not 20 pts on the 600 pt scale?

I can't imagine someone jumped 20 pts on a 20-80 scale due to the development lab. Especially going over the "max" by 15.

But maybe?

No it references the 20-80 scale. The 600 pt scale is obfuscated from the user in this save and the email from the scout specifically references the 20-80 scale. The result was 'Outstandingly completed' but referencing the players page I cannot find where any rating was applied, not on his ratings page or elsewhere, only that it was completed on his history page. Here's some pics but sadly I'm a guy who deletes his messages or else I would have included that as well.

Pic 1
Pic 2

[Bagpipes5]

A-ha! I found on his player profile where you can see past messages/news involving the player. Even after 20 years I forget where this is...
Anyway, the message doesn't reference any point scale but as the 600 pt is obfuscated it would zero sense to inform the player of changes to that rating scale. So either the bonus isn't being applied or the message itself is disingenuous by referencing things the user can't see. Regardless, I stand by my initial assessment that it isn't being applied as the +20 would take the rating higher than an 80. This is also the only player I've seen have this issue in this save, it has happened in other saves.

Can we get an official comment on this? Thanks.

[Paul Reuschel's Mustache]

Originally Posted by Bagpipes5

Can we get an official comment on this? Thanks.

No. But rest assured, any and all glitches impairing gameplay in this year's version will be alleviated in next year's version.

Promise, this time.

Please stop clogging the forum with negative mesages.

Thank you for your attention.

[Rain King]

Avoid K is only a component of the Contact rating. Improving Avoid K by 20 points isn't going to improve Contact by 20 points. The BABIP also plays a significant role in the composition of the Contact rating.

[Bagpipes5]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Avoid K is only a component of the Contact rating. Improving Avoid K by 20 points isn't going to improve Contact by 20 points. The BABIP also plays a significant role in the composition of the Contact rating.

What is the source of this information?

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Bagpipes5

What is the source of this information?

https://wiki.ootpdevelopments.com/in...atting_Ratings

[Bagpipes5]

Originally Posted by Rain King

https://wiki.ootpdevelopments.com/in...atting_Ratings

There are still some major issues here:

1. Missing Ratings Display: The scout's message states that you will be able to view these ratings changes — Potential Avoid K's > 5 and current Avoid K's rating +20 — on the player scouting page. However, as shown in the attached screenshot, these changes are not listed on his scouting page.

2. Incomplete Development Report: On the player scouting page under "Development Report," there is no mention of any ratings change in February 2042 except for a +5 gain in contact. There is no reference to the change in Avoid K's potential or rating. Minor stat potential changes like Gap are tracked, so why wasn't this tracked, especially when it was for other players?

3. Lack of Evidence for Lab Completion: While I can see ratings changes from my scout's emails reflected on other players, I see no evidence of this player completing the development lab — aside from an entry in his player history and an old news article on his page.

[panda234]

Originally Posted by Rain King

The BABIP also plays a significant role in the composition of the Contact rating.

Isn't it the other way around?

[venflaalachi]

Originally Posted by panda234

Isn't it the other way around?

I don’t think so. BABIP and avoid K are the two components of the co text rating.

[Bagpipes5]

It's easy to see where my player received +5 contact from, a shift in his 1/2/3 evaluation from my scout. Look at his last 3 seasons, see that .232 come off the books? That's why he now is evaluated as +5 contact. If you think that the player received +5 contact from the Development Lab and his potential and overall Avoid K's improving - that's a big stretch! Nor is there any evidence to support that claim.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Bagpipes5

It's easy to see where my player received +5 contact from, a shift in his 1/2/3 evaluation from my scout. Look at his last 3 seasons, see that .232 come off the books? That's why he now is evaluated as +5 contact. If you think that the player received +5 contact from the Development Lab and his potential and overall Avoid K's improving - that's a big stretch! Nor is there any evidence to support that claim.

The fact that a player hit .232 years ago, in OOTP, has no relation to what his ratings are 3 years later. During real league creation, sure, ratings are generated from real stats, but after league creation stats come from ratings.

When you say the .232 "come off the books", I wonder if you're confusing Player Evaluation AI Settings (PEAIS) with ratings. Just like stats don't determine ratings, neither do PEAIS. They're there for the AI to evaluate players, they're not there for us to see. They don't even change the overall ratings (I just tested this to confirm, but the old manual / new wiki also clarifies that the overall ratings are only a result of underlying ratings). Yes, the popup that results says, "player ratings have been updated and adjusted", but if you compare ratings screenshots of an entire roster before and after drastically changing PEAIS, there are no differences (overall or underlying). I think that msg might just be a holdover from when it was once an option as seen here.

No, your player simply got a big bump to his AvK which resulted in a small bump to his contact since AvK is only a component of contact. Yes, it might be nice if AvK (and other lesser) rating changes were listed in the player's dev report as that might prevent some confusion, but a change in AvK shouldn't ever result in the exact same change in contact. Besides, contact is a hugely important rating, it'd be crazy to have a turn in the dev lab have the potential to increase contact by 20 points. Even a 20 point bump to AvK seems like a lot to me, but it is an "outstanding" result and a minor rating so it's not that bad.

[Bagpipes5]

Originally Posted by kq76

The fact that a player hit .232 years ago, in OOTP, has no relation to what his ratings are 3 years later. During real league creation, sure, ratings are generated from real stats, but after league creation stats come from ratings.

When you say the .232 "come off the books", I wonder if you're confusing Player Evaluation AI Settings (PEAIS) with ratings. Just like stats don't determine ratings, neither do PEAIS. They're there for the AI to evaluate players, they're not there for us to see. They don't even change the overall ratings (I just tested this to confirm, but the old manual / new wiki also clarifies that the overall ratings are only a result of underlying ratings). Yes, the popup that results says, "player ratings have been updated and adjusted", but if you compare ratings screenshots of an entire roster before and after drastically changing PEAIS, there are no differences (overall or underlying). I think that msg might just be a holdover from when it was once an option as seen here.

No, your player simply got a big bump to his AvK which resulted in a small bump to his contact since AvK is only a component of contact. Yes, it might be nice if AvK (and other lesser) rating changes were listed in the player's dev report as that might prevent some confusion, but a change in AvK shouldn't ever result in the exact same change in contact. Besides, contact is a hugely important rating, it'd be crazy to have a turn in the dev lab have the potential to increase contact by 20 points. Even a 20 point bump to AvK seems like a lot to me, but it is an "outstanding" result and a minor rating so it's not that bad.

I'm confused as to where I claimed that the AvK 20 points in the Development Lab would equate to 20 points overall in Contact?
Yeah that is crazy, please provide clarification.

[kq76]

You said it wasn't showing up yet the screenshots clearly show contact went up 5 after the result. What more did you want, contact to go up the same amount as the AvK's 20?

But you also said his AvK started at 75 and stayed at 75 after the lab result. My guess is you must be misremembering because why would someone have a player with 75/80 in a rating work on that same rating? Surely it would make more sense to work on a rating they weren't already awesome at, law of diminishing returns and all that. My guess is it did change, you just misremembered what it started at. Sure, you could have had him work on a 75/80 rating, maybe you figured that if he's already good at it then maybe he can more easily get even better at it than he could at something he's not good at, but I don't think that's a choice most of us would make. A 75/80 AvK is probably already plenty good enough for most people.

[Bagpipes5]

Originally Posted by kq76

You said it wasn't showing up yet the screenshots clearly show contact went up 5 after the result. What more did you want, contact to go up the same amount as the AvK's 20?

But you also said his AvK started at 75 and stayed at 75 after the lab result. My guess is you must be misremembering because why would someone have a player with 75/80 in a rating work on that same rating? Surely it would make more sense to work on a rating they weren't already awesome at, law of diminishing returns and all that. My guess is it did change, you just misremembered what it started at. Sure, you could have had him work on a 75/80 rating, maybe you figured that if he's already good at it then maybe he can more easily get even better at it than he could at something he's not good at, but I don't think that's a choice most of us would make. A 75/80 AvK is probably already plenty good enough for most people.

What more did I want? I believe I commented on that already as well...

Originally Posted by Bagpipes5

There are still some major issues here:

1. Missing Ratings Display: The scout's message states that you will be able to view these ratings changes — Potential Avoid K's > 5 and current Avoid K's rating +20 — on the player scouting page. However, as shown in the attached screenshot, these changes are not listed on his scouting page.

2. Incomplete Development Report: On the player scouting page under "Development Report," there is no mention of any ratings change in February 2042 except for a +5 gain in contact. There is no reference to the change in Avoid K's potential or rating. Minor stat potential changes like Gap are tracked, so why wasn't this tracked, especially when it was for other players?

3. Lack of Evidence for Lab Completion: While I can see ratings changes from my scout's emails reflected on other players, I see no evidence of this player completing the development lab — aside from an entry in his player history and an old news article on his page.

Also, as far as your critique about working on another attribute, well you have screenshots, he's an 80 OVR MVP Winner with an injury history I'm trying to keep on top in hope's he'll have another 40/40 season on our way to our 4th straight World Series title.