I'm not complaining

[jdolecek49]

But so many are, so there was not a glimpse of what the game looked like prior to buying.lot of games are like this. besides your either going to buy it or your not. Plain and simple markus has thousands of people telling him why don't you add tis to the game? or why did you add this? ect and adding a video prior to release is last on his list i'm sure. he is trying to get this new version of the game perfect and doesn't have time to do non essential type of things......so give the guy a break instead of sounding like some old pregnant women will ya?

[BestbatBoy]

From what I've been able to figure out, Matt does most of the programming these days... and the company has other people capable of posting a features list. So let's not pretend Markus is out there by himself

[Poweshow]

Wanting more from companies selling products is not a bad thing.
The fact that it's treated as some treasonous request on this board makes half the members of this board look like they're in a cult.

[jdolecek49]

Originally Posted by BestbatBoy

From what I've been able to figure out, Matt does most of the programming these days... and the company has other people capable of posting a features list. So let's not pretend Markus is out there by himself

I didnt mean for it to sound like that, do the others I did not mention. My apologies

[TheChief]

So the mods locked a thread. And you thought it would be a good idea to start it back up again?

Who cares if people want more info. It's not taking your joy away. Fans of a sports team criticize the sports team all of the time. It doesn't make them less of a fan.



Super weird stuff on this forum.

[Markus Heinsohn]

All is good my friends

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...24#post5082824

[turkeybird86]

Originally Posted by Poweshow

Wanting more from companies selling products is not a bad thing.
The fact that it's treated as some treasonous request on this board makes half the members of this board look like they're in a cult.

Except you were told 500 times that it was coming out today. And lo and behold it came out today. 🤦*♂️

[phenom]

Originally Posted by Poweshow

Wanting more from companies selling products is not a bad thing.
The fact that it's treated as some treasonous request on this board makes half the members of this board look like they're in a cult.

You've been complaining about feature releases for years. That's all you do is complain. Why even participate? Every year you whine about new features not being released and every year you get a list of new features and every year the process and timeline for those releases are exactly the same. And every year you complain about it.

Then you complain about the game.

Then you complain about people who disagree with you.

Just go away. Don't buy OOTP. Why subject yourself to such anger for so long? This product isn't for you.

I mean, search your posts. They're all the same year after year.

[storm427]

It ISN'T a cult?

[AdequateRandomGaming]

Originally Posted by phenom

You've been complaining about feature releases for years. That's all you do is complain. Why even participate? Every year you whine about new features not being released and every year you get a list of new features and every year the process and timeline for those releases are exactly the same. And every year you complain about it.

Then you complain about the game.

Then you complain about people who disagree with you.

Just go away. Don't buy OOTP. Why subject yourself to such anger for so long? This product isn't for you.

I mean, search your posts. They're all the same year after year.

Unless you're a mod with the power to do something about people who cross the line, I find telling people to "not buy the game and go away" to be ridiculously ineffective because they will do what they want anyway.

Not only are you wasting your time, but you are contributing to making the user base of this fine game look pointlessly hostile to potential new customers.

Thr0lls tend to go extinct once we stop feeding them...

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by phenom

You've been complaining about feature releases for years. That's all you do is complain. Why even participate? Every year you whine about new features not being released and every year you get a list of new features and every year the process and timeline for those releases are exactly the same. And every year you complain about it.

Then you complain about the game.

Then you complain about people who disagree with you.

Just go away. Don't buy OOTP. Why subject yourself to such anger for so long? This product isn't for you.

I mean, search your posts. They're all the same year after year.

The process for the release are not the same. There's clearly no marketing budget anymore. We used to get a month or longer intro of the new features, not the final list released on early access day, so don't gaslight us and tell us it's the same. Pepperidge farms remembers road to release

The anger is justified but it's also wasted. This is the new reality with the new owners. Complaining doesn't help improve the game anymore it just brings out the fanboys where if you don't bow down to the god that is Markus then you don't even deserve to buy the game.

Why even participate indeed

[offerman7]

This tends to happen every year with this game. OOTP has yet to fail to deliver a great game. I buy every year when I get the preorder email without any hesitation. All will be good once the beta is released and we are all playing it.

[phenom]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

The process for the release are not the same. There's clearly no marketing budget anymore. We used to get a month or longer intro of the new features, not the final list released on early access day, so don't gaslight us and tell us it's the same. Pepperidge farms remembers road to release

The anger is justified but it's also wasted. This is the new reality with the new owners. Complaining doesn't help improve the game anymore it just brings out the fanboys where if you don't bow down to the god that is Markus then you don't even deserve to buy the game.

Why even participate indeed

Who's gaslighting whom?

Road to Release schedule started in February. Go back and look for when the same things happened in OOTP23 and OOTP24. It was nothing until a week or two before release, and changelists didn't show up until just before release. No different than this year.

[Rain King]

Posting constructive feedback on these forums has always been extremely productive. I think the OOTP25 changelist itself is a great example of that.

Being a jerk/troll, of course, is much less productive and will bring out defenders. Generally, when taking that approach any legitimate points get lost in the flamewar that follows.

No idea why anyone would come to the forum that the company owns and take that combative approach, but there are many things about the world I don't understand.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Posting constructive feedback on these forums has always been extremely productive. I think the OOTP25 changelist itself is a great example of that.

Being a jerk/troll, of course, is much less productive and will bring out defenders. Generally, when taking that approach any legitimate points get lost in the flamewar that follows.

No idea why anyone would come to the forum that the company owns and take that combative approach, but there are many things about the world I don't understand.

I could not have said it better. Thank you!

[TheChief]

Originally Posted by phenom

Who's gaslighting whom?

Road to Release schedule started in February. Go back and look for when the same things happened in OOTP23 and OOTP24. It was nothing until a week or two before release, and changelists didn't show up until just before release. No different than this year.

But why are you so hostile. Who cares some one else is complaining. Nothing to do with you and your fandom.

Lot of these threads don't even make me want to post or read here. Obviously a huge split with people who have been playing 20 years and people playing maybe for a handful.


This forum comes off as super unfriendly at times. I've seen AAA multi million sales games have friendlier forums.


Kinda crazy for a super niche game fandom to have so many angry people

[phenom]

Originally Posted by TheChief

But why are you so hostile. Who cares some one else is complaining. Nothing to do with you and your fandom.

Lot of these threads don't even make me want to post or read here. Obviously a huge split with people who have been playing 20 years and people playing maybe for a handful.


This forum comes off as super unfriendly at times. I've seen AAA multi million sales games have friendlier forums.


Kinda crazy for a super niche game fandom to have so many angry people

I'm not being hostile. I'm responding to hostility. If you read into it a different way then I'm not sure how to change how it looks to you. Complaints about the way things appear to be handled seem shortsighted when these things have always been handled this way. Not enough people are recognizing that.

But you're right. Who cares? I apparently did enough to call these people on it. I don't anymore. Enjoy the game.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

The process for the release are not the same. There's clearly no marketing budget anymore. We used to get a month or longer intro of the new features, not the final list released on early access day, so don't gaslight us and tell us it's the same. Pepperidge farms remembers road to release

The anger is justified but it's also wasted. This is the new reality with the new owners. Complaining doesn't help improve the game anymore it just brings out the fanboys where if you don't bow down to the god that is Markus then you don't even deserve to buy the game.

Why even participate indeed

Whether you want to call it complaining or suggestions how again did the development lab get added to the game? The under the hood ratings changes? Development tab on each individual player card etc. etc.? Hard trading in v24? new features in all previous versions?

Would these not be improvements due to years of user feedback (complaints and suggestions) helping shape the game?

Some make suggestions and take Markus and Matt at their word that these things are put on the list, prioritized, and added if feasible. Some complain that these suggestions are ignored because it's not in the newest release because of the new owners, others because of lazy developers etc. etc. But here we are with more major improvements based on feedback on these forums(and I would think their other social media channels). YMMV on what is major, but that's the same for everybody. Some will be happy, others won't.

You are right about the anger, it is wasted. They have told everyone how the game is going to be revealed, ie not a full list until beta release. And here we are today with the full list before the game comes out. They told us what they were going to do, and they did it. No amount of anger changed a thing, ie the energy put into anger was indeed wasted.

[Syd Thrift]

There's also the fact that there is and there will always be a gulf between what we as non-members of the development team think is easy or at least feasible and what the development team thinks they can do. They have access to the codebase, not us, after all.

That doesn't mean suggestions don't get heard, it means that some suggestions can be implemented, some have to be put on the backburner, and some just can't be done. Like... the development lab thing for instance. I have zero idea if I was conscious source of credit for this at all but waaaay back in the day, I think before my original account got banned, I created a bunch of charts you could roll from that had the basic effect of what the development lab is doing. I don't think very many people ever used them - the feedback I got back was that they could make too big of a change in just one offseason - but it was there, and maybe, just maybe, it was enough in the zeitgeist that a future dev said "man, that thing that was floating around back in 2007? I think I'll try and put it into play".

Or they just came up with it completely on their own after seeing report after report of guys learning new pitches, going to Driveline, and so on. I don't know. Whatever it was, it wasn't small and yet it was a thing they could add in on top of the existing codebase without having to do too much to make everything else work around it.

My point here is that a lot of these suggestions are just the art of the possible. Maybe OOTP could lay out money for a full-time project manager / BA, although the team is still kind of small for that. People talking about "marketing" I don't think are quite getting it right: right now I think a lot of players are expecting the devs to interact directly at a time when they are heads-down in actual development. What would work better for them is someone standing in that non-technical BA/product role (like don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure that's part of Matt's actual duties, but then Matt has to sit down and do dev work too). Failing that, perhaps us nonpaid beta people can act as standins for that (not in a "no, only beta testers can request features" sense, but in a "hey, we have a slightly more direct line into the dev team so if there's a particular feature ask we can request it, and maybe we can be the people to help communicate why some features are out of reach for now").

[phenom]

I dunno. I mean, seems like it would be pretty easy to include pie. It can be just for me.