Is OOTP still getting better?

[Irrelevant Dude]

I have been around this community since OOTP3 and I still buy every new version of the game (with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 years that I skipped). Largely due to time constraints, I haven't spent significant time playing any version of the game for many years, even though I keep telling myself that "this is the year" I'm going to jump back in. If I'm being completely honest, the last time I spent a large amount of time with any version of the game was probably somewhere around OOTP12 or 13.

With that said, I am really curious about the general consensus of the trajectory of OOTP. Putting aside the new rule changes that get implemented each year, and ignoring Perfect Team completely, is the core gameplay engine still improving? Or has the product peaked/matured in such a way that each year is more a reshuffling of the deck chairs, with some features getting better and others maybe taking a step back? Do people still generally feel that each year's game is better than the last, or was X version of the game the peak and everything since then has been more along the lines of maintenance and polish (3D graphics, etc.)?

I don't know exactly what I'm trying to get out of this post, but I've been lurking here for several years and I'm just interested to know whether there is still progress being made and room to grow for the core game. I will almost certainly continue to buy each version for as long as it continues to be released and, who knows, maybe next year will be the year I actually do start playing again. I am a Cubs fan after all, so "wait til next year" is something I'm very used to.

[Rain King]

In general, absolutely yes.

I do think they have had a couple of rocky releases recently and I think a product as large and complicated as OOTP has become means every new feature has the potential to introduce new bugs (see the financial stuff this year), but it is absolutely still marching forward.

[Sweed]

If you play out games it has improved a lot with the addition of 3d that gets better every year. More play outcomes, stadiums that look great, full uniforms with name and number. Historical unis (look as good, or better, then the licensed unis that come with the game) and stadiums in the mod forums back to 1900 or a bit before. It's not "The Show" but it's damn good.
I have no doubt that this will continue to improve in noticeable ways, year to year, for quite some time. I love it, others don't.

If you're a stat guy they continue to add more of the "new" stats, filter options, and ways to sort the stats for both players and teams. There's one user that may come here to let us know OOTP does not do every stat or sort that sites like Baseball Reference does, because you know, for $40 it should.

Multiple rules options, financial options, roster options etc. to set up your game are still being added to. Yes, piece by piece on a yearly basis, not tons all at once.

If you're one that wants the deep front office experience of a game like Football Manager it's not here, nor do I think it's coming. IMHO the financial model is fine, ie it gives enough without being overwhelming. Others will not agree.

The new trade mode has added more challenge. In the context of a computer game I am happy with the trade engine. I've posted in the annual trade rant/discussion threads about my league along with data to support what I say. Most others voice their opinions without data. IOW you'll find the usual "trading is broke" posts that all sports games have.

If you're looking for a consensus I'm not sure you're in the right place. Much of the conversation has moved away from the boards to the, IMHO, unorganized - hard to follow sites like Discord. It's the nature of today's net. Users that are happy with the game tend to buy it, play it, and not come on the boards. Users with issues tend to be more vocal. If you've been lurking I would think you'd notice it's mostly the same group of posters with a few new users posting here and there.

My advice? If you are already buying it every year maybe install it and give it a go. IMHO it's well worth the time, but at the end of the day your experience will end up being the only one that counts anyway.

[Scoman]

Speaking strictly Historical I think it has become quite stagnant over the years.

[pstrickert]

What's missing that you'd like to see, Scoman?

[Brad K]

Aren't we near the point of diminishing returns?

To me the last really big improvement was real batting splits. I can't believe that it was missing so long. But the current "real" splits, I have doubts about how real they are although they're much better than random.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Irrelevant Dude

I have been around this community since OOTP3 and I still buy every new version of the game (with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 years that I skipped). Largely due to time constraints, I haven't spent significant time playing any version of the game for many years, even though I keep telling myself that "this is the year" I'm going to jump back in. If I'm being completely honest, the last time I spent a large amount of time with any version of the game was probably somewhere around OOTP12 or 13.

With that said, I am really curious about the general consensus of the trajectory of OOTP. Putting aside the new rule changes that get implemented each year, and ignoring Perfect Team completely, is the core gameplay engine still improving? Or has the product peaked/matured in such a way that each year is more a reshuffling of the deck chairs, with some features getting better and others maybe taking a step back? Do people still generally feel that each year's game is better than the last, or was X version of the game the peak and everything since then has been more along the lines of maintenance and polish (3D graphics, etc.)?

I don't know exactly what I'm trying to get out of this post, but I've been lurking here for several years and I'm just interested to know whether there is still progress being made and room to grow for the core game. I will almost certainly continue to buy each version for as long as it continues to be released and, who knows, maybe next year will be the year I actually do start playing again. I am a Cubs fan after all, so "wait til next year" is something I'm very used to.

It really depends on who you ask and also how you play the game.

If you are serious about getting back into the game, wait for the $10 offseason sale and see if the game hooks you like it used to.

If your last version was 12 or 13, there is probably enough here that is new.
Especially if you play out your games.

If you were coming from say, OOTP 18
I would say you might not notice many differences in several places.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

If you are serious about getting back into the game, wait for the $10 offseason sale and see if the game hooks you like it used to.

Oh, it isn't a question of buying the game. I still buy it at release pretty much every year, if for no other reason than to support the game's development. It is just a question of when/if I will actually put some time into it again. I would love to eventually get back into OOTP and join an active online league, as I was doing 15+ years ago, but eventually may end up being a year from now or 5 years from now.

I may very well jump in relatively soon and put some time into OOTP 24, but was mostly just curious about how people feel the game is progressing from year to year. I check the list of new features every year and it seems like it typically reads the same way: updated financials, updated scouting, etc. So are those systems actually continuously improving, or is it often more of a 2 steps forward and 1 step back type result? There is certainly nothing wrong with small incremental improvements over time if that's what is still occurring, and I'm sure there will always be some bells and whistles to be added, but there must come a point where improving the core systems any further becomes difficult.

[itsmb8]

The biggest thing I want to see is heavily upgraded graphics and a more realistic gameplay engine, maybe a 2008 MLB The Show level gameplay engine. Nothing that will require a new beefy PC to be "adequate."

Otherwise more in-depth financials, scouting, and player development. Real Spring Training leagues (how is this still not a thing). Re-done and more in-depth feeder leagues. MiLB stadiums would be a dream.

[Pdubya64]

I agree that in general there have been incremental improvements and/or features. Some are implemented better than others as is usual in s/w development and it's ongoing of course.
I do wonder what it would take to "un-screw" the complexity maze of a game OOTP is these days though.

My best analogy is this:

Colossal Order came out with Cities: Skylines eight years ago. It was ambitious, addicting and gamers and modders absolutely loved it. Fast forward a bunch of years that included paid add-on "modules" that all expanded the game in many, many ways and on top of that thousands of highly useful mods like "Move-It", etc. and sales kept growing and the support all around was great.

Like OOTP, CO's team was small. They found the best ways possible in the time frame and budget they had to make new mechanics happen. Continuing to expand with the old engine was really showing its limitations. But a recent pre-release interview with one of CO's head Devs (C:S2 is due out Oct 24th) he mentions that success allowed the team to expand and his Road/Highway Guru explained how given a clean slate he would do roads completely differently. His vision according to the head Dev "blew my mind".
But it all required the additional staff and completely creating a new game engine that would support/allow all these new capabilities and meld them together in a more seamless way.
So, Cities: Skylines 2 was born.

It occurs to me that this type of commitment to a new engine and design from the start with advanced ideas and capabilities in mind is what OOTP would likely need to undertake.

Whether Markus and Co. can or are willing to do this is the question.

[Scoman]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

What's missing that you'd like to see, Scoman?

Good question and one I think needs to be posted to the Historical play community.

Maybe start a new thread in the historical section.

I always play career play starting in 1901 with a draft every year,One small thing in particular that hasn't worked correctly for years is the

use pre defined draft value for AI feature

when doing historical career drafts.

In the 1913 draft Babe Ruth always gets drafted 5th every time ,you can easily recreate it....and of course he should always be 1st if you have that feature checked.

Just the whole look and feel need a overhaul IMO among other things.


Unfortunately its all about PT now.

[phenom]

I would like to see the Manager portion of the game be enhanced. More player information in-game, such as pitcher feedback in every half inning or player interaction. Seems like managing a single game is just number vs number. I mean, why do I have to visit the mound to see how my pitcher is feeling or what my catcher thinks my pitcher is doing poorly, and why when I do that I only essentially get one of two answers? He's either fine and let him pitch or he's getting tired. Why can't I get information between innings when these guys are sitting in the dugout?

I'm in a similar place as OP. Outside of improvements in how the game handles me being a manager and not a GM, will there be something to draw me into the next version or versions?

[Pelican]

My sense over four years of play (still a newbie!) is that the improvements have been incremental - steady but not sensational. So for those who play a lot, you will see and appreciate the refinements. Depending of course on how you play. For me, the changes have been worth buying each new version. In fact, I eagerly await the changes each year.

But another way to look at it is that your purchase involves numerous new builds and bug fixes during the year. If your glass is always half-full (or for some posters, empty), you’ll call this a deficiency, as if the game should be perfect upon release. If you live in the real world, you’ll appreciate the attention to detail and the responsiveness of developers to questions and bugs and issues. It’s very much a work in progress, which for me at least is way better than a stagnant platform with annual releases that merely incorporate new statistics.

So much of what comes out in the new builds is not fixing an actual mistake, but rather “hey, here’s a better way to do this that will make the game more realistic and more fun to play”. It makes no sense to criticize the developers for making the game play better. Or for keeping a close ear to complaints and suggestions from the community. They’re good at helping with user error type issues, and also for acknowledging weaknesses that could stand a patch.

I too have noticed that these forums tend to be an echo chamber, with lots of repeats by the same posters (myself included). I miss the “New to the Game” thread, which was where I first dared to lurk and then post some questions. In return I got guidance and encouragement and cautions and sage advice. We all need to encourage new users to log on and jump in. I particularly enjoy the reports on historical and fictional seasons.

Returning to the OP, I’ve learned that one’s perspective on OOTP depends on past (and ongoing) experience with computer games. Those with a heavy background in online gaming will have a totally different view from me, with experience dating to boards and dice games through APBA computer baseball - and little else (and zero interest in the online product). I suppose that, in context, OOTP remains a sort of niche game. I can only hope that the niche is broad enough to support many thousands of users who pay it forward by purchasing the game.

[Syd Thrift]

I think 3D has been just plain huge over the past couple versions. If you don't like or use 3D then yes, of course it's going to feel like more incremental improvements. Adding and then adding to 3D has been kind of a major direction the game has gone in. I personally find that it's completely changed the way I like to play the game and personally I've definitely sunk waaaay more hours into it per year than ever before, partially because of COVID, partially I guess because I'm olde, but just an awful lot because 3D has turned it into a game I can play/watch for half an hour or so every morning while I drink my morning coffee.

Again YMMV with that. I think it's rather disingenuous to ignore a particular new feature because you personally don't use it and then pretend that there hasn't been anything new and big over the past several iterations.

[Pelican]

And we still need to launch that new thread “when do you like to play OOTP” to compare “morning coffee” versus late night players, and everything in-between.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Pelican

And we still need to launch that new thread “when do you like to play OOTP” to compare “morning coffee” versus late night players, and everything in-between.

Don't forget the "I'm retired so whenever I get the urge.".

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Sweed

If you play out games it has improved a lot with the addition of 3d that gets better every year. More play outcomes, stadiums that look great, full uniforms with name and number. Historical unis (look as good, or better, then the licensed unis that come with the game) and stadiums in the mod forums back to 1900 or a bit before. It's not "The Show" but it's damn good.
I have no doubt that this will continue to improve in noticeable ways, year to year, for quite some time. I love it, others don't.

If you're a stat guy they continue to add more of the "new" stats, filter options, and ways to sort the stats for both players and teams. There's one user that may come here to let us know OOTP does not do every stat or sort that sites like Baseball Reference does, because you know, for $40 it should.

Multiple rules options, financial options, roster options etc. to set up your game are still being added to. Yes, piece by piece on a yearly basis, not tons all at once.

If you're one that wants the deep front office experience of a game like Football Manager it's not here, nor do I think it's coming. IMHO the financial model is fine, ie it gives enough without being overwhelming. Others will not agree.

The new trade mode has added more challenge. In the context of a computer game I am happy with the trade engine. I've posted in the annual trade rant/discussion threads about my league along with data to support what I say. Most others voice their opinions without data. IOW you'll find the usual "trading is broke" posts that all sports games have.

If you're looking for a consensus I'm not sure you're in the right place. Much of the conversation has moved away from the boards to the, IMHO, unorganized - hard to follow sites like Discord. It's the nature of today's net. Users that are happy with the game tend to buy it, play it, and not come on the boards. Users with issues tend to be more vocal. If you've been lurking I would think you'd notice it's mostly the same group of posters with a few new users posting here and there.

My advice? If you are already buying it every year maybe install it and give it a go. IMHO it's well worth the time, but at the end of the day your experience will end up being the only one that counts anyway.

hahaha I am the stat guy!!! : )
and yeah it is a worthy goal
yeah because for 40 dollars i would rather have more stats then animations. It is not unreasonable to want to move past 20 year old HTML reports and have everything sortable, groupable, filterable.

I only wish i knew their direction. I would assume they have a culture of excellence and strive to continue and improve, so I can be patient.

It is partially a question of space and speed. They are already options for how detailed you want and what you want saved.
Space is cheap (for me)
I will take a hit in speed for more immersive experience.

OOTPB is still the best value imo. However, for me, there is not enough improvement to justify buying every year anymore. Also life gets in the way and time to devote to playing gets sliced up. The lack of progress I am looking for has allowed my gaming time slice to find other wonderful genres of games.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I think 3D has been just plain huge over the past couple versions. If you don't like or use 3D then yes, of course it's going to feel like more incremental improvements. Adding and then adding to 3D has been kind of a major direction the game has gone in. I personally find that it's completely changed the way I like to play the game and personally I've definitely sunk waaaay more hours into it per year than ever before, partially because of COVID, partially I guess because I'm olde, but just an awful lot because 3D has turned it into a game I can play/watch for half an hour or so every morning while I drink my morning coffee.

Again YMMV with that. I think it's rather disingenuous to ignore a particular new feature because you personally don't use it and then pretend that there hasn't been anything new and big over the past several iterations.

You are correct here. The problem for myself and some others I think is that we prioritize the front office/management aspects of OOTP. It simply became a case of “eye candy = sales”

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

You are correct here. The problem for myself and some others I think is that we prioritize the front office/management aspects of OOTP. It simply became a case of “eye candy = sales”

Bingo. Instead of catering to the few, reliable, faithful fanatics, a company that turns its focus to graphics and gambling mechanics (PT) is catering to the masses. See under “EA Madden” for an example of how that turns out.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by mytreds

Bingo. Instead of catering to the few, reliable, faithful fanatics, a company that turns its focus to graphics and gambling mechanics (PT) is catering to the masses. See under “EA Madden” for an example of how that turns out.

Yes, but the issue for me then becomes OOTPDs defense of being a niche product when it suits them, even though it’s obvious the goal is NOY to be because of feature prioritizations such as PT & graphics.