Baffling Me

The Game · 08-27-2023, 07:32 PM

Glenbard recently sign 1b Marc Antonio Moriero to a 5 yr extension then turn around and traded him

tm1681 · 08-27-2023, 09:06 PM

So it ended up like the kind of sign-and-trade deal you see in the NBA. Honestly surprised you don't see more of that in baseball.

kidd_05_u2 · 08-27-2023, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tm1681

So it ended up like the kind of sign-and-trade deal you see in the NBA. Honestly surprised you don't see more of that in baseball.

The NBA has contract extension and salary cap rules that make sign-and-trades desirable for players and teams. Conversely, I can't think of a single good reason for sign-and-trades to exist in baseball. You do have trade-and-sign though.

Syd Thrift · 08-28-2023, 12:12 PM

This really just looks like a couple of semi-related decisions by the AI... first it said "hey, do I want to extend this guy?" and then decided it did, and then once the extension was signed it (probably) received a trade proposal from another team who saw the new extension as a positive or at least kept the player as a tradeable asset, and then the original AI said "OK, I need what I'm getting back more than what I'm trading away" and pulled the trigger. Of course the game didn't sign the guy expecting to trade him immediately; I think it's been pretty well shown by now that the AI doesn't really have that kind of forward-thinking.

Isn't there a rule that says you can't trade a player you just signed for X months (I think one year)? That seems like it'd be a good thing to implement here to prevent trades like this if they bother people.

Rain King · 08-28-2023, 01:14 PM

If you are wanting to build the "story" into your universe...I would treat it like he signed the extension with Ewok Village. You do see that kind of thing. A guy gets traded in his walk year and part of that deal is negotiating an extension with the new team.

As far as OOTP's AI, it has never been programmed to have loyalty to a recently signed contract. Basically, the AI is going to constantly evaluate each potential move considering everything before it as a "sunk" action. This is good and bad. It should allow the team to always be able to take advantage of what it believes to be a good move, but you will get some sets of transactions that will not make sense from a "real life" perspective.

Pelican · 08-28-2023, 03:16 PM

Absolutely true on the lack of loyalty. When I added present-day free agency to my 1961 sim, all heck broke loose. Without warning, and somewhat randomly, stars with expiring contracts became free agents. Aaron, Mays, Clemente and many others changed teams in an all-out bidding war. Crazy stuff. The Pirates lost Clemente but gained Aaron. The AI as said above just kept making spur of the moment decisions on contract value, without any regard for loyalty or history. I’m not saying the outcome was unrealistic. If the reserve clause had been abolished without any warning in 1961, something like this chaos would have ensued. But even with that, I don’t see the Giants trading Mays, the Pirates (coming off a World Series win) trading Clemente, or the Braves trading Aaron.

jpeters1734 · 08-28-2023, 03:51 PM

First time playing OOTP? haha, the AI has no context of yesterday

tm1681 · 08-28-2023, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidd_05_u2

The NBA has contract extension and salary cap rules that make sign-and-trades desirable for players and teams. Conversely, I can't think of a single good reason for sign-and-trades to exist in baseball. You do have trade-and-sign though.

I can think of a reason for wanting a sign-and-trade in the sense that the new team would know that they don't have to worry about negotiating a new contract.

The Game · 08-28-2023, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

First time playing OOTP? haha, the AI has no context of yesterday

This is just one of the worst ones I've seen.

AlpineSK · 08-30-2023, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tm1681

I can think of a reason for wanting a sign-and-trade in the sense that the new team would know that they don't have to worry about negotiating a new contract.

I THINK teams can negotiate an extension as a contingency to a trade.

tm1681 · 08-31-2023, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

I THINK teams can negotiate an extension as a contingency to a trade.

Yes - they can negotiate with the player as part of a possible trade.

08-27-2023, 07:32 PM	#1
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	Baffling Me Glenbard recently sign 1b Marc Antonio Moriero to a 5 yr extension then turn around and traded him Attached Images __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

08-28-2023, 03:16 PM	#6
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 3,277	Absolutely true on the lack of loyalty. When I added present-day free agency to my 1961 sim, all heck broke loose. Without warning, and somewhat randomly, stars with expiring contracts became free agents. Aaron, Mays, Clemente and many others changed teams in an all-out bidding war. Crazy stuff. The Pirates lost Clemente but gained Aaron. The AI as said above just kept making spur of the moment decisions on contract value, without any regard for loyalty or history. I’m not saying the outcome was unrealistic. If the reserve clause had been abolished without any warning in 1961, something like this chaos would have ensued. But even with that, I don’t see the Giants trading Mays, the Pirates (coming off a World Series win) trading Clemente, or the Braves trading Aaron. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

08-28-2023, 03:51 PM	#7
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,307	First time playing OOTP? haha, the AI has no context of yesterday __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

08-27-2023, 09:06 PM	#2
tm1681 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,775	So it ended up like the kind of sign-and-trade deal you see in the NBA. Honestly surprised you don't see more of that in baseball.

08-28-2023, 01:14 PM	#5
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,323	If you are wanting to build the "story" into your universe...I would treat it like he signed the extension with Ewok Village. You do see that kind of thing. A guy gets traded in his walk year and part of that deal is negotiating an extension with the new team. As far as OOTP's AI, it has never been programmed to have loyalty to a recently signed contract. Basically, the AI is going to constantly evaluate each potential move considering everything before it as a "sunk" action. This is good and bad. It should allow the team to always be able to take advantage of what it believes to be a good move, but you will get some sets of transactions that will not make sense from a "real life" perspective.