Who Wins My CY?

texasmame · 08-18-2023, 09:03 PM

EDIT:
P1 was 35 year old Pedro Martinez of the Taiwan Explosive Go Salmon (winner)
P2 was 33 year old Jacob deGrom of the Galveston Greyhounds

~~~

Player 1 (red) has been his team's #1 starter all year.
Player 2 (gray) has been his team's #2 starter all year (yes, different team).

Both players' teams are division winners.

So - who is it gonna be?

Please explain your vote - I like to hear the reasoning.

snepp · 08-18-2023, 09:15 PM

I'm going with pitcher 1, but I went back and forth a bit.

51/49 in favor of #1.

Will_L · 08-18-2023, 09:31 PM

I went with #1 due to the quality starts, babip & success at keeping the ball in the park.

Reed · 08-19-2023, 07:39 AM

Player 1 due to quality starts,

OutS|der · 08-19-2023, 08:27 AM

That K total is impressive but I'll have to go with the consensus and say #1.

He had a better overall season.

MathBandit · 08-19-2023, 10:25 AM

Based on what's shown, #2. Though its tough without two of the most important stats that I would want to see (K%-BB% and xFIP). To me it looks like #2 was a lot better than #1, though.

Pelican · 08-19-2023, 11:07 AM

I think it’s relatively close between them. Hard to ignore those strikeouts. But hard to ignore those HR allowed. Player #1 marginally better on WHIP and FIP. Also, a #1 SP tends to match up with other #1 SP, so more of a challenge, more close games. I like the first guy.

Syd Thrift · 08-19-2023, 02:21 PM

They're tied by WAR but I'd go with #1 because of the consistency and the WINS

kidd_05_u2 · 08-19-2023, 04:24 PM

For me this is the most difficult type of case to settle in real life. Pitchers with similar WAR but one with lower SIERA and the other with lower HR%. I'm inclined to go with pitcher number 2, but it is as close as it gets to a tossup.

That said, I'm not sure if OOTP can be trusted with complex statistics given the limitations of the game engine.

md40022 · 08-19-2023, 04:56 PM

Since 1980, 326 strikeouts in a season has only been exceeded by Randy Johnson. Given how similar so many of their numbers are, I'd vote guy #2 just based on the strikeouts really being a somewhat historical feat.

There's no wrong answer though.

texasmame · 08-19-2023, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by md40022

Since 1980, 326 strikeouts in a season has only been exceeded by Randy Johnson. Given how similar so many of their numbers are, I'd vote guy #2 just based on the strikeouts really being a somewhat historical feat.

There's no wrong answer though.

That's plenty of Ks!

In fact, in my league (17 seasons as of now) Pedro Martinez set the record for Ks in a season with 357 in the 8th season. The total of 326 that Player #2 has is second only to that Pedro total.

Déjà Bru · 08-19-2023, 07:58 PM

Yes, impressive number of K's. But K's are only one way in which to get a batter out (although a decisive one for sure). When all is said and done, it's the guy who was more effective getting outs (and, conversely, not giving up runs ... such as home runs!). For that reason, I too went with Player #1.

MathBandit · 08-19-2023, 08:21 PM

Looks like we're adding Pitcher #1 to the list alongside Colon and Welsh.

snepp · 08-19-2023, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Looks like we're adding Pitcher #1 to the list alongside Colon and Welsh.

Not a very good comp.

Colon/Welch won primarily on the back of a sexy win total, with inferior peripherals compared to the alternatives. That's pretty clearly not the case here. Pitcher 1 has excellent peripherals across the board.

rudel.dietrich · 08-19-2023, 11:02 PM

Pitcher #2 by the slightest of margins.
3 extra games thrown and 17 extra IP was ultimately the deciding factor.

I would not be upset with either pitcher winning assuming these are in fact the best two candidates.

md40022 · 08-20-2023, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Yes, impressive number of K's. But K's are only one way in which to get a batter out (although a decisive one for sure). When all is said and done, it's the guy who was more effective getting outs (and, conversely, not giving up runs ... such as home runs!). For that reason, I too went with Player #1.

No wrong answer here. The fact that the strikeouts total is kind of historic for me is what gives #2 my vote. It's not just that it's "a lot of strikeouts", but to be able to say that's the most single season strikes in the last 45 years, outside of Randy Johnson..... it kind of takes on a historical thing at that point. With all of the other numbers being as good as they are for both guys - to say #2 kind of made history, that gives him my vote. It's baseball - making statistical history is always fun.

texasmame · 08-22-2023, 10:13 AM

Bump for great justice.

BaseballMan · 08-23-2023, 05:01 PM

Ment to vote for 1 but hit 2.
Yeah the high strikeout isnt really enough. Just means a pitcher is
taking longer to accomplish and out. How many of those strikeouts involved a long at bat resulting in the pitcher wearing down faster?
To me the first pitcher seemed to get the job done faster and was more consistent overall.

thehef · 08-23-2023, 05:32 PM

I went with #1, mostly for "old-school" reasons: More wins, significantly better ERA. #2's K's are whoppingly impressive, but #1 is no slouch in that department. Significant edge to #1 in quality starts, which speaks to consistency.

What struck me is that one of the stats I looked for - and didn't find - was complete games (also not shown is shutouts). A sign of the times, I suppose (41 different statistics shown, and no CG or ShO... wow). Maybe these guys - neither of whom managed to average 7 ip per start - didn't have any of those...

texasmame · 08-24-2023, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

I went with #1, mostly for "old-school" reasons: More wins, significantly better ERA. #2's K's are whoppingly impressive, but #1 is no slouch in that department. Significant edge to #1 in quality starts, which speaks to consistency.

What struck me is that one of the stats I looked for - and didn't find - was complete games (also not shown is shutouts). A sign of the times, I suppose (41 different statistics shown, and no CG or ShO... wow). Maybe these guys - neither of whom managed to average 7 ip per start - didn't have any of those...

Zero between both total.

View Poll Results: Who Wins the Cy Young?
Player 1	31	81.58%
Player 2	7	18.42%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

08-19-2023, 11:07 AM	#7
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,978	I think it’s relatively close between them. Hard to ignore those strikeouts. But hard to ignore those HR allowed. Player #1 marginally better on WHIP and FIP. Also, a #1 SP tends to match up with other #1 SP, so more of a challenge, more close games. I like the first guy. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

08-19-2023, 07:58 PM	#12
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,740	Yes, impressive number of K's. But K's are only one way in which to get a batter out (although a decisive one for sure). When all is said and done, it's the guy who was more effective getting outs (and, conversely, not giving up runs ... such as home runs!). For that reason, I too went with Player #1. __________________ - Bru

08-22-2023, 10:13 AM	#17
texasmame All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Planet Texas Posts: 1,643	Bump for great justice. __________________ Managing and rebuilding the 100-loss BURBANK BLACK BARONS. Defeated the TAIWAN EXPLOSIVE GO SALMON (99-63) in seven games to win the WORLD SERIES!

08-18-2023, 09:03 PM	#1
texasmame All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Planet Texas Posts: 1,643	Who Wins My CY? EDIT: P1 was 35 year old Pedro Martinez of the Taiwan Explosive Go Salmon (winner) P2 was 33 year old Jacob deGrom of the Galveston Greyhounds ~~~ Player 1 (red) has been his team's #1 starter all year. Player 2 (gray) has been his team's #2 starter all year (yes, different team). Both players' teams are division winners. So - who is it gonna be? Please explain your vote - I like to hear the reasoning. Attached Images __________________ Managing and rebuilding the 100-loss BURBANK BLACK BARONS. Defeated the TAIWAN EXPLOSIVE GO SALMON (99-63) in seven games to win the WORLD SERIES! Last edited by texasmame; 08-28-2023 at 08:34 PM.

08-18-2023, 09:15 PM	#2
snepp All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,482	I'm going with pitcher 1, but I went back and forth a bit. 51/49 in favor of #1.

08-18-2023, 09:31 PM	#3
Will_L All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Laurelton, NY Posts: 590	I went with #1 due to the quality starts, babip & success at keeping the ball in the park.

08-19-2023, 07:39 AM	#4
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	Player 1 due to quality starts,

08-19-2023, 08:27 AM	#5
OutS\|der Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: In A Van Down By The River Posts: 2,711 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	That K total is impressive but I'll have to go with the consensus and say #1. He had a better overall season.

08-19-2023, 10:25 AM	#6
MathBandit All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,445	Based on what's shown, #2. Though its tough without two of the most important stats that I would want to see (K%-BB% and xFIP). To me it looks like #2 was a lot better than #1, though.

08-19-2023, 04:24 PM	#9
kidd_05_u2 All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 521	For me this is the most difficult type of case to settle in real life. Pitchers with similar WAR but one with lower SIERA and the other with lower HR%. I'm inclined to go with pitcher number 2, but it is as close as it gets to a tossup. That said, I'm not sure if OOTP can be trusted with complex statistics given the limitations of the game engine.

08-19-2023, 04:56 PM	#10
md40022 All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 740 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Since 1980, 326 strikeouts in a season has only been exceeded by Randy Johnson. Given how similar so many of their numbers are, I'd vote guy #2 just based on the strikeouts really being a somewhat historical feat. There's no wrong answer though.

08-19-2023, 08:21 PM	#13
MathBandit All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,445	Looks like we're adding Pitcher #1 to the list alongside Colon and Welsh.

08-19-2023, 11:02 PM	#15
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	Pitcher #2 by the slightest of margins. 3 extra games thrown and 17 extra IP was ultimately the deciding factor. I would not be upset with either pitcher winning assuming these are in fact the best two candidates.

08-23-2023, 05:01 PM	#18
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,522	Ment to vote for 1 but hit 2. Yeah the high strikeout isnt really enough. Just means a pitcher is taking longer to accomplish and out. How many of those strikeouts involved a long at bat resulting in the pitcher wearing down faster? To me the first pitcher seemed to get the job done faster and was more consistent overall.

08-23-2023, 05:32 PM	#19
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	I went with #1, mostly for "old-school" reasons: More wins, significantly better ERA. #2's K's are whoppingly impressive, but #1 is no slouch in that department. Significant edge to #1 in quality starts, which speaks to consistency. What struck me is that one of the stats I looked for - and didn't find - was complete games (also not shown is shutouts). A sign of the times, I suppose (41 different statistics shown, and no CG or ShO... wow). Maybe these guys - neither of whom managed to average 7 ip per start - didn't have any of those...