Why are so many players put on waivers when the Offseason begins?

[Astroboy]

Some really good relievers can be claimed on the first day of the offseason via waivers and I really don't understand why this happens. Is this a bug?

[Bobfather]

Most likely their expected arb number is too high. So teams release them.

[Astroboy]

No arbitration dude is a rookie. You don't put a guy like this on Waivers, it has to be a bug.

[Karl Pagel Blues]

Originally Posted by Astroboy

Some really good relievers can be claimed on the first day of the offseason via waivers and I really don't understand why this happens. Is this a bug?

The AI putting decent to good players on waivers (or releasing them) has been a long standing issue with this game. There have been countless threads asking the same question you are asking.

Even Markus admitted that he "...would love the perfect (yet still adjustable) AI for trading / roster management etc. But this is pretty much impossible."

One of my house rules is if I see a decent to good young player put on waivers, I'm not allowed to claim him - I have to work out a trade for that player. And of course, with trade setting set at very hard, it will cost me one or more good players in return to trade for that guy.

Check out some discussions about minor league active roster size limits. That can definitely have an impact on AI roster management.

[LansdowneSt]

It's most apparent in the first year as the team the AI inherits was assembled by the real-life GM of that given team but the team is being shaped going-forward to what the AI values based on the ratings/scouting/settings/infernal and imperfect logic it has at its disposal.

[Paul Reuschel's Mustache]

Originally Posted by Karl Pagel Blues

Even Markus admitted that he "...would love the perfect (yet still adjustable) AI for trading / roster management etc. But this is pretty much impossible."

Good to know! So there's no sense in complaining about screwy AI roster management if the guy behind the game says that.

I like your house rule for players on waivers.

[Pelican]

Same house rule. In fact, I will sometimes just pull the players from waivers, as Commissioner. You learn there are some “inflection points” (e.g. end of Spring Training, trimming rosters; midseason trade deadline) where you need to check the MLB transactions log and be ready to correct nonsensical decisions. I regard it as occasional cleanup, to keep things real.

Since the head-scratchers seem to be about money, contracts, arbitration, one way to “cheese” this aspect (saving the AI from itself) is to alter your financial setup, to basically give teams more money and ability to spend it. I know, I know. This will not please those doing historically-accurate season replays, or those who want to sim under the same constraints as IRL. But it does enable teams to keep players, and, done right, it promotes something like parity.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Astroboy

No arbitration dude is a rookie. You don't put a guy like this on Waivers, it has to be a bug.

In this case, it’s a 26 year old relief pitcher who didn’t pitch very well in AAA (FIP says he was merely below average). Honestly, this isn’t someone I’d lose a lot of sleep over. IRL he’d probably be cut out of spring training instead of the first day of the offseason but either way I’m a little meh on that…

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Same house rule. In fact, I will sometimes just pull the players from waivers, as Commissioner. You learn there are some “inflection points” (e.g. end of Spring Training, trimming rosters; midseason trade deadline) where you need to check the MLB transactions log and be ready to correct nonsensical decisions. I regard it as occasional cleanup, to keep things real.

Since the head-scratchers seem to be about money, contracts, arbitration, one way to “cheese” this aspect (saving the AI from itself) is to alter your financial setup, to basically give teams more money and ability to spend it. I know, I know. This will not please those doing historically-accurate season replays, or those who want to sim under the same constraints as IRL. But it does enable teams to keep players, and, done right, it promotes something like parity.

I have to wonder too if the limit on times optioned per season added in v23 has an affect? Last year, in v23, the AI didn't seem to know how to handle this new feature and guys were having to clear waivers because they were optioned up and down enough they hit the limit. I turned the feature off.

In v24 I have left it off and had intended on starting a thread to ask what users are experiencing in regard to limiting the number of times one could be optioned? Is the AI still struggling with option limits?

FWIW, with option limits off in both v23 and v24 my waiver wire seems to behave in a very reasonable way.

And no, this doesn't apply to the OP as that user is talking about the first day of the off season, where I would think the limit would already be reset. Or maybe that could be a cause if that limit wasn't being reset when it should be? (off the cuff speculation )

[Paul Reuschel's Mustache]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

In this case, it’s a 26 year old relief pitcher who didn’t pitch very well in AAA (FIP says he was merely below average). Honestly, this isn’t someone I’d lose a lot of sleep over. IRL he’d probably be cut out of spring training instead of the first day of the offseason but either way I’m a little meh on that…

Am I missing something? I see this RP put up great numbers in his 2024 rookie season. And right after the season, the Cubs put the guy on waivers, where the Rockies picked him up.

This is what the OP meant when he said "you don't put a guy like this on waivers". Which is 100% correct, of course.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

In this case, it’s a 26 year old relief pitcher who didn’t pitch very well in AAA (FIP says he was merely below average). Honestly, this isn’t someone I’d lose a lot of sleep over. IRL he’d probably be cut out of spring training instead of the first day of the offseason but either way I’m a little meh on that…

I'm pretty sure you need to review his numbers with the Cubs in the season just completed rather than his 2022 AAA numbers.
This is definitely NOT someone who is going anywhere but to the back of a major league BP (set up/closer) next season IRL..

[Syd Thrift]

OK. I can only go by the screenshot. I guess I could have seen the date but in a vacuum, like I said I’m not crying my eyes out if a 26 year old middle reliever who spent significant time in A ball got cut. It that guy was 24 at the time and he’s had 2 secret good years since then, of course those are mitigating factors.

[Paul Reuschel's Mustache]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I’m not crying my eyes out if a 26 year old middle reliever who spent significant time in A ball got cut.

What are you talking about A ball for? The OP was referencing a rookie 24-year-old (turned 25 near the end of the season) RP who put up excellent numbers during the 2024 season for the Cubs and then got put on waivers and claimed.

During the 2024 season the 24-year-old rookie puts up the following numbers for the Cubs:

37 saves, 71 IP, 49 H, 2HR, 31 BB, 92 K 3.1 WAR 54 FIP-

You were off-base with your first comment ("this isn’t someone I’d lose a lot of sleep over") and you're still off-base with your second comment ("’m not crying my eyes out if a 26 year old middle reliever who spent significant time in A ball got cut").

Did you read what the OP wrote? Did you look at the screenshots he provided?

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Paul Reuschel's Mustache

What are you talking about A ball for? The OP was referencing a rookie 24-year-old (turned 25 near the end of the season) RP who put up excellent numbers during the 2024 season for the Cubs and then got put on waivers and claimed.

During the 2024 season the 24-year-old rookie puts up the following numbers for the Cubs:

37 saves, 71 IP, 49 H, 2HR, 31 BB, 92 K 3.1 WAR 54 FIP-

You were off-base with your first comment ("this isn’t someone I’d lose a lot of sleep over") and you're still off-base with your second comment ("’m not crying my eyes out if a 26 year old middle reliever who spent significant time in A ball got cut").

Did you read what the OP wrote? Did you look at the screenshots he provided?

I was literally going off of the first screenshot, yes.

[ayaghmour2]

Originally Posted by Astroboy

Some really good relievers can be claimed on the first day of the offseason via waivers and I really don't understand why this happens. Is this a bug?

I don't think anyone actually answered what you asked, but the reason why so many players are waived on the first day of the offseason is because this is when you need to activate players from the IL. A lot of teams have guys on the 60-Day IL, but may not have room on their 40-man rosters to activate them. This causes a lot of players to be waived on that first day

In terms of that specific player, sometimes the AI doesn't value relievers very highly. And if you play with scouts, their scout may not be to fond of them. Or they just have too many pitchers. Neither are "good" explanations as they liked him enough to be their closer and he pitched really well, but with reliever volatility, he may never match that production again

[md40022]

*disregard* had some inaccurate info in my post.

[RchW]

Check this out.

https://www.espn.com/chicago/news/story?id=4390120

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by ayaghmour2

I don't think anyone actually answered what you asked, but the reason why so many players are waived on the first day of the offseason is because this is when you need to activate players from the IL. A lot of teams have guys on the 60-Day IL, but may not have room on their 40-man rosters to activate them. This causes a lot of players to be waived on that first day

In terms of that specific player, sometimes the AI doesn't value relievers very highly. And if you play with scouts, their scout may not be to fond of them. Or they just have too many pitchers. Neither are "good" explanations as they liked him enough to be their closer and he pitched really well, but with reliever volatility, he may never match that production again

This is the answer to why there are players that go onto waivers at that time.

For this specific player, there is a lot to evaluate to understand why they might have been exposed. What are your player evaluation settings? Why doesn't this player have any stats for 2023?

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by Rain King

This is the answer to why there are players that go onto waivers at that time.

For this specific player, there is a lot to evaluate to understand why they might have been exposed. What are your player evaluation settings? Why doesn't this player have any stats for 2023?

I'm guessing based on the scroll bar that you'd have to scroll down to see 2023.

That said, if a 24 year old collects 37 saves with nearly a 3:1 K:BB ratio and more than a K/inning while giving up just 2 HR in 71 innings and he gets waved? That GM should be run out of town.

EDIT: Its also worth noting that he gave up 2 HR's while playing for Colorado.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by RchW

Check this out.

https://www.espn.com/chicago/news/story?id=4390120

Take a look at the Rios contract though. Yikes.

You're also comparing an OF to a rookie closer.