Definitive List of Taboo Words

[FleetWalker]

Users deserve a definitive list of forbidden league and team names so that custom league makers do not inadvertently trip the fail safes.

The consequences of having hundreds of hours of work randomly scrambled are obvious. It is completely unfair and disrespectful to implement such a draconian policy and then leave users to fumble in the dark over what may or may not be used in the game. This is entirely consistent with the purpose of this whole mess; those of us who are trying to avoid causing issues, need to know what is allowed. You can't forbid the use of certain words, not say what those words are, and the say gotcha and wreck the game when they are used. That is where we are now.

It is not true that "we know" what is allowed.

For instance, I have heard (and do not want to find out the hard way) that any use of the formal name of Japan in a league name will cause the game to scramble the league. There is absolutely no reason to expect that behaviour if the word is not being used as part of the actual trademarked league name. Law school was a few years ago now, but I'm pretty sure no one can trademark the name of a country. I have multiple leagues that are named Baseball CountyName with both Baseball and the country's name written as it's citizen write those words for local flavor. Am I allowed to do this or not?

What about the Taiyo Whales? That name is no longer used, but the mark may be owned by the team they later merged into; and so it may or may not be part of the license that caused this issue. Can we use that name? What about Taiyo Kujira—that's never been a team name in English, but Kujira is the Japanese word for Whale and probably is/was trademarked in Japan. Can use that team name. We need guidance!

We also need guarantees that the program itself has been fixed so that it will never generate any fictional names that will trip the fail safes. It's easy to imagine the name generator stumbling on a forbidden name and wrecking a whole league. This is particularly true for player names, but I have no idea how far ranging the restrictions are because we have been given no guidance.

I am angry and upset, but I am also trying to create leagues that are consistent with the policies implemented by OOTP AND still have baseball being played worldwide. That is not an unreasonable ask. As of right now I can't even be a good partner for OOTP, because I do not know what I am allowed to do.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

These are outstanding points.

[Rain King]

A more likely solution given that their silence is likely legally motivated would be to make it impossible to save a league or team name using the offending text going forward.

They should also make that VERY clear so that changes with that terminology don't simply "not save", but indicate that is going to occur before you even try to save.

[CONN CHRIS]

Excellent set of questions. I forwarded it to the developers to see if they can respond to something like this. Thus far, they have simply said that they could not respond to us (the moderators) in any way so that may be the response here as well but we shall see.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Excellent set of questions. I forwarded it to the developers to see if they can respond to something like this. Thus far, they have simply said that they could not respond to us (the moderators) in any way so that may be the response here as well but we shall see.

Thanks, Chris. I can only imagine how tough these last 48 hours have been for you and the other mods. Thanks for doing what you can for the community.

[koohead]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Excellent set of questions. I forwarded it to the developers to see if they can respond to something like this. Thus far, they have simply said that they could not respond to us (the moderators) in any way so that may be the response here as well but we shall see.

I would imagine this falls under the "ways to work around the patch" topic so probably not going to get much direction on what to avoid.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by koohead

I would imagine this falls under the "ways to work around the patch" topic so probably not going to get much direction on what to avoid.

It doesn't hurt for him to ask. We've gotten zero information from anyone affiliated with OOTP since people's saves were altered, so I don't think we should dismiss Chris's attempt to get us some information.

[nutt]

George Carlin provided us with the list of taboo words.

[koohead]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

It doesn't hurt for him to ask. We've gotten zero information from anyone affiliated with OOTP since people's saves were altered, so I don't think we should dismiss Chris's attempt to get us some information.

100% agree. I guess I just needed to hear myself talk with that post.

And no, that is not sarcasm in any way...I admit it was probably a post that should have just stayed in my head.

[CONN CHRIS]

Unfortunately, they say that they are not able to respond to this as well. Not that it will matter to some but I assume that they are in agony over the inability to address this directly with everyone. Hopefully, that won't always be the case.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Unfortunately, they say that they are not able to respond to this as well. Not that it will matter to some but I assume that they are in agony over the inability to address this directly with everyone. Hopefully, that won't always be the case.

Thanks for trying, Chris. I'm sure they are upset over the situation. Maybe someday we'll know what exactly went down.

[Syd Thrift]

I feel like Markus or maybe at least Matt Arnold would totally be like "guys, you can name a team the H1roshima C4rp" but probably, knowing weirdo Japanese law like I do (I do not know Japanese law and am only assuming it's weirdo because of this and FM and also the existence of loli culture), that would constitute some kind of breach or something or like they'd have to start coding in leetspeak.

[billyray1984]

This is an outstanding question but I doubt that we will ever get a clear answer : not now and not ever. Programmers are not lawyers and getting sued into oblivion is a very real possibility.

The question is thus.

Can we now as forum users, through trial and error, try some words that might be tabboo and report on it in a clear and constructive manner on the forums for the benefit of others ?

Can we sim thousand of seasons with randomly generated Japanese teams and/or players without intervention and see if anything triggers the scramble and report our findings ?

Or will this be construed as trying to skirt the fail safe in place and bring further repercussions ?

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by fleetwalker

users deserve a definitive list of forbidden league and team names so that custom league makers do not inadvertently trip the fail safes.

The consequences of having hundreds of hours of work randomly scrambled are obvious. It is completely unfair and disrespectful to implement such a draconian policy and then leave users to fumble in the dark over what may or may not be used in the game. This is entirely consistent with the purpose of this whole mess; those of us who are trying to avoid causing issues, need to know what is allowed. You can't forbid the use of certain words, not say what those words are, and the say gotcha and wreck the game when they are used. That is where we are now.

It is not true that "we know" what is allowed.

For instance, i have heard (and do not want to find out the hard way) that any use of the formal name of japan in a league name will cause the game to scramble the league. There is absolutely no reason to expect that behaviour if the word is not being used as part of the actual trademarked league name. Law school was a few years ago now, but i'm pretty sure no one can trademark the name of a country. I have multiple leagues that are named baseball countyname with both baseball and the country's name written as it's citizen write those words for local flavor. Am i allowed to do this or not?

What about the taiyo whales? That name is no longer used, but the mark may be owned by the team they later merged into; and so it may or may not be part of the license that caused this issue. Can we use that name? What about taiyo kujira—that's never been a team name in english, but kujira is the japanese word for whale and probably is/was trademarked in japan. Can use that team name. We need guidance!

We also need guarantees that the program itself has been fixed so that it will never generate any fictional names that will trip the fail safes. It's easy to imagine the name generator stumbling on a forbidden name and wrecking a whole league. This is particularly true for player names, but i have no idea how far ranging the restrictions are because we have been given no guidance.

I am angry and upset, but i am also trying to create leagues that are consistent with the policies implemented by ootp and still have baseball being played worldwide. That is not an unreasonable ask. As of right now i can't even be a good partner for ootp, because i do not know what i am allowed to do.

bb

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by billyray1984

Or will this be construed as trying to skirt the fail safe in place and bring further repercussions?

This.

Anything you report that works will be closed by a lawyer on the other side of the table and this issue will continue on and on with more stringent blocks and even more blunt instruments being employed. It's already happened once from the first patch to the scramble patch. There is a *** lawyer reading this right now.

It's not a community problem to solve. It never really was. It's a thing to be let go of. It stinks. It really, really, really stinks ... but I think that's where it is.

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by billyray1984

This is an outstanding question but I doubt that we will ever get a clear answer : not now and not ever. Programmers are not lawyers and getting sued into oblivion is a very real possibility.

The question is thus.

Can we now as forum users, through trial and error, try some words that might be tabboo and report on it in a clear and constructive manner on the forums for the benefit of others ?

Can we sim thousand of seasons with randomly generated Japanese teams and/or players without intervention and see if anything triggers the scramble and report our findings ?

Or will this be construed as trying to skirt the fail safe in place and bring further repercussions ?

This is not going to end well for all involved

[ajsomers]

Excellent points, OP, and well said, too.

Since there are a few in the thread, thanks to the mods here. You guys have not had an easy job the last few days. Most of us get that. Yours is often a thankless job.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by billyray1984

This is an outstanding question but I doubt that we will ever get a clear answer : not now and not ever. Programmers are not lawyers and getting sued into oblivion is a very real possibility.

The question is thus.

Can we now as forum users, through trial and error, try some words that might be tabboo and report on it in a clear and constructive manner on the forums for the benefit of others ?

Can we sim thousand of seasons with randomly generated Japanese teams and/or players without intervention and see if anything triggers the scramble and report our findings ?

Or will this be construed as trying to skirt the fail safe in place and bring further repercussions ?

Likely won't be able to post workarounds on here. May need to take it to Reddit or other places not affiliated with the main forums.

The lack of not even being able to respond is frustrating but it is what it is.
Would be nice if they could at least confirm it's a licensing issue

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

This.

Anything you report that works will be closed by a lawyer on the other side of the table and this issue will continue on and on with more stringent blocks and even more blunt instruments being employed. It's already happened once from the first patch to the scramble patch. There is a *** lawyer reading this right now.

It's not a community problem to solve. It never really was. It's a thing to be let go of. It stinks. It really, really, really stinks ... but I think that's where it is.

In the end, this is aboit trademarks, you can't trade mark individual names. You can't trademark a country. So if I create a fictional league called Japan Championship baseball, and my star player is Hidecki Nomo. I've broken no trademark law. So the other side of this legal situation can't say anything even tho there may be triggers in those words that cause my game to be scrubbed. So as paying customers, we should have some right to know what will cause our hard work making leagues like that to be for naught

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by FleetWalker

Users deserve a definitive list of forbidden league and team names so that custom league makers do not inadvertently trip the fail safes.

The consequences of having hundreds of hours of work randomly scrambled are obvious. It is completely unfair and disrespectful to implement such a draconian policy and then leave users to fumble in the dark over what may or may not be used in the game. This is entirely consistent with the purpose of this whole mess; those of us who are trying to avoid causing issues, need to know what is allowed. You can't forbid the use of certain words, not say what those words are, and the say gotcha and wreck the game when they are used. That is where we are now.

It is not true that "we know" what is allowed.

For instance, I have heard (and do not want to find out the hard way) that any use of the formal name of Japan in a league name will cause the game to scramble the league. There is absolutely no reason to expect that behaviour if the word is not being used as part of the actual trademarked league name. Law school was a few years ago now, but I'm pretty sure no one can trademark the name of a country. I have multiple leagues that are named Baseball CountyName with both Baseball and the country's name written as it's citizen write those words for local flavor. Am I allowed to do this or not?

What about the Taiyo Whales? That name is no longer used, but the mark may be owned by the team they later merged into; and so it may or may not be part of the license that caused this issue. Can we use that name? What about Taiyo Kujira—that's never been a team name in English, but Kujira is the Japanese word for Whale and probably is/was trademarked in Japan. Can use that team name. We need guidance!

We also need guarantees that the program itself has been fixed so that it will never generate any fictional names that will trip the fail safes. It's easy to imagine the name generator stumbling on a forbidden name and wrecking a whole league. This is particularly true for player names, but I have no idea how far ranging the restrictions are because we have been given no guidance.

I am angry and upset, but I am also trying to create leagues that are consistent with the policies implemented by OOTP AND still have baseball being played worldwide. That is not an unreasonable ask. As of right now I can't even be a good partner for OOTP, because I do not know what I am allowed to do.

This is one of the best and most rational posts about this horrible situation since all this began