The Grass is always Greener

dcordash · 08-11-2022, 01:53 PM

Ok, I’ve said my share of critical things in the past couple weeks. Found some warts and wrinkles I was having a very hard time moving past. Decided to expand my horizons so to speak. The experience was hardly a good on.

On the other side of the MLB simulation fence is a desolate wasteland with just a couple of oasis’s in the vastness. These oasis being of the mirage variety where the hot air bends the light rays and casts a near hallucinogenic pall.

They will entice you with promises, but comparing what the “others” deliver to OOTP 23 is like a matchstick to flamethrower.

OOTP truly reminds me of that long-time girlfriend that you’ve suddenly started noticing flaws in. Perhaps you saw those flaws as attractions once upon a time, but familiarity can sometimes breed contempt.

So, you wander off one night and drunkenly stumble into a Denny’s at 2am. Next thing you know you’ve driven a waitress back to her place somehow avoiding a potential DUI, car wreck, mugging (maybe by the waitress that could be a thief wanting nothing more than to roll you for your money).

You wake up next to Broom Hilda the next morning..no makeup and hair extensions lying haphazardly all over the bed full of your fluids. Coyote ugly flower lying there to the extent you would chew your arm off to get it out from under her without waking her. You sneak away.

At that point you start thinking about that long-time girlfriend left behind. The flaws have faded from your mind. The drop-dead gorgeousness and intimate comradely/support you shared for decades is the image you see. The one-night stand you will leave at Denny’s, because we all know “what happens at Denny’s..stays at Denny’s” and try to get yourself right with the mistake you made.

You instantly make a bee-line back home again and appreciate the greatness realizing the other options out there.

BTW, I’ve played OOTP for about 5 hours the last couple days. Edwin Diaz has not blown a save since and got his ERA back under 4.

Reed · 08-11-2022, 03:22 PM

Yes.
OOTP certainly has it’s flaws but for me it is much, much better than the other sim baseball games. I still sometimes look around and then I realize how good OOTP is for me despite it’s flaws and I come back.

Marinersfan51 · 08-11-2022, 03:36 PM

As frustrating as the issues and quirks of OOTP can be at times, it is head and shoulders above every other sports sim in the sports that interest me (baseball, basketball, and american football).

robc · 08-11-2022, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcordash

BTW, I’ve played OOTP for about 5 hours the last couple days. Edwin Diaz has not blown a save since and got his ERA back under 4.

Markus must have ordered his team to roll back the code that automatically screws human players after they make a trade.

dcordash · 08-11-2022, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

Markus must have ordered his team to roll back the code that automatically screws human players after they make a trade.

And, you have me to thank for that fix.

fredbeene · 08-11-2022, 11:47 PM

It is astounding there is no competition.....competition is what will make OOTPB better.
Strat hasn't done crap in 20 years

fredbeene · 08-11-2022, 11:48 PM

Just as astounding there below avg Basketball and Football equivalents.

uruguru · 08-12-2022, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbeene

It is astounding there is no competition.....competition is what will make OOTPB better.
Strat hasn't done crap in 20 years

MLB licensing is critical to success for games like this. It's not cheap and maybe a difficult expense to justify for a new game.

md40022 · 08-12-2022, 09:08 AM

Considering that you were actively complaining about numerous things about 8 minutes before making this post, you must have ran thru testing those other games out pretty quickly, while getting your pitching coach to "right" the Edwin Diaz ship at the same time.

Impressive.

Sweed · 08-12-2022, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uruguru

MLB licensing is critical to success for games like this. It's not cheap and maybe a difficult expense to justify for a new game.

It took OOTP many years to get to where they were able to get\afford the license. When they got it? Yeah, some complained how it would ruin the game. IE Cost and MLB controlling what could and could not be in the game.
Cost didn't change other than the normal "over time prices will rise" and MLB has had minimal affect on what goes into the game.

There was competition back in the day. Baseball Mogul and Pure Sim. BM fell behind quickly while PS had a dedicated user base that preferred it over OOTP.
I messed around with both but neither were able to hold my interest.

Two things going on here IMHO. OOTP now having the license makes it a huge challenge for anyone to come along and replace them (as you have noted) as the MLB sim of choice for the small niche crowd that is looking for a game like this.

The other is OOTP's earlier competition falling by the wayside highlights just how niche this sim game market is for US sports that relies, mostly, on US users. Unlike FM that has a worldwide sport to draw users from. Until I see some evidence otherwise I'll stick with European gamers look for a "front office" module in their sports games while US users, by and large, are more into button mashing. I wish that wasn't true but I don' see evidence to the contrary.

Syd Thrift · 08-12-2022, 12:17 PM

Puresim was an interesting game but the creator just plain wasn't able to make a release every year and for that reason, practically by itself, it fell behind OOTP. PS was created by a modder of Front Page Sports and IIRC used similarly physics-adjacent ratings for the players, which TBH I kind of still prefer over the OOTP "these ratings directly create these stats" model. Still, OOTPD even back in the early 2000s was pretty vigilant about getting more and more stuff into each edition and they leveraged the increase in fanbase to hire more devs to do more stuff whereas Mogul remains a one-man affair (spread out between several games at that; I've picked up Football Mogul a few times and always wind up being disappointed at the lack of progress).

I honestly don't think that the license alone is a killer. I do think it puts new creations at a disadvantage. Frankly, another huge, huge disadvantage is all the work that OOTP has done over the years with bells-and-whistles type stuff like graphics and FaceGen and so on. 20 years ago you could release and compete with a game that looked like nothing more than a bunch of spreadsheets. I'm not sure that's the case any longer, or to the extent that it is, the new batch-of-spreadsheets is going to have to be really innovative somewhere else (for instance, a true physics-based engine).

Bluenoser · 08-12-2022, 01:16 PM

Puresim - oh how I wish OOTP could create a weekly newspaper/recap like that game did.

David Watts · 08-12-2022, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Puresim - oh how I wish OOTP could create a weekly newspaper/recap like that game did.

You beat me to it. Such a great feature. Always reminded me of a in print version of This Week in Baseball.

Cod · 08-12-2022, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbeene

It is astounding there is no competition.....competition is what will make OOTPB better.
Strat hasn't done crap in 20 years

You're comparing apples to oranges. OOTP and Strat are not competitors. Strat is a replay game that uses an in-depth statistical model to determine outcomes. However, this can only be done for seasons already completed in real life. OOTP is a more immersive product that allows you to do a lot of front office things while still managing the day-to-day.

I play a lot of baseball sims and all of them have pros / cons. OOTP allows me more creative freedom and let me play out "What if" scenarios over extended periods or even with fictional universes. No other game allows me to be a GM and play a team for 100+ years into the future.

dcordash · 08-13-2022, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by md40022

Considering that you were actively complaining about numerous things about 8 minutes before making this post, you must have ran thru testing those other games out pretty quickly, while getting your pitching coach to "right" the Edwin Diaz ship at the same time.

Impressive.

Yeah, I found it's not doing a lot of good to complain about every thing I believe is out of sorts. Gotta take the good with the bad. A lot more of the former than latter in OOTP.

Baseball Mogul, if you had absolutely no point of reference, you might think it OK and a temporary diversion. Can't see anyone (well, real baseball statsheads anyway) sticking with it for long.

But, having OOTP as a point of reference..it really doesn't take a lot of minutes to understand it's not a very well developed product. In fact, I'm guessing the "development" part stopped long ago. The minor league is quite barren, interface like something from 1990. Clunky and hopelessly unintuitive.

Maybe the worst part, though, is there isn't a community for it. Perhaps a dozen posts/threads that I could find since this year's version came out. A sports sim void of an active online community is like going to a MLB game with no fans in the park.

Actually worse than that even, it's like playing a sim in a vacuum with zero sources to share the experience with, ask questions about, or argue with. You don't realize how important that element is until you don't have it.

Bottom Of The Sixth · 08-13-2022, 11:29 PM

Wow, is this subject bringing me back in time....

I too, played PureSim and BM.

BM I just flat out didn't like because of the way it looked so generic.

PS was fun when it worked for me.

I used to experience crashes from time to time and when I would post stuff on the forum, 99% of the time, my issues/problems were ignored and others, who were in the "circle" always got responses and help from the developer and it was like that alot of the time.

After seeing things play out like that several times for me, I started searching around the web looking for some other baseball sim and that is how I first found out about OOTP and I have been hooked ever since.

OOTP has a top-notch community that helps support and promote the game series.

PSUColonel · 08-14-2022, 12:36 AM

What's being said here is very true...however that doesn't mean I wished some good stiff competition would come along. The lack of competition is NOT good for the advancement of OOTP. I think a true competitor would help drive the product to new heights.

Baby Ruth · 08-14-2022, 10:53 AM

I actually preferred Puresim to OOTP. I played that game endlessly. If the developer had stuck to focusing on just that game instead of going off into the mobile application area I would probably still be playing it today. But you can't fault someone for doing what they need (and want) to do to make a living.

David Watts · 08-14-2022, 10:56 AM

Baseball Mogul really ticked me off when they took away the ability for guys to turn into dolphins.

Pelican · 08-16-2022, 04:52 PM

I had a long run with APBA computer game. But they do not make an Apple version; only for PC. In retrospect, the game engine cannot compete with OOTP, and there is no financial part, or minor leagues, or player development. It’s dependent still on their cards and dice game, which is a classic. I keep mine around for when the power goes out and the batteries die. Rolling dice at the apocalypse.

08-11-2022, 01:53 PM	#1
dcordash Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 103	The Grass is always Greener Ok, I’ve said my share of critical things in the past couple weeks. Found some warts and wrinkles I was having a very hard time moving past. Decided to expand my horizons so to speak. The experience was hardly a good on. On the other side of the MLB simulation fence is a desolate wasteland with just a couple of oasis’s in the vastness. These oasis being of the mirage variety where the hot air bends the light rays and casts a near hallucinogenic pall. They will entice you with promises, but comparing what the “others” deliver to OOTP 23 is like a matchstick to flamethrower. OOTP truly reminds me of that long-time girlfriend that you’ve suddenly started noticing flaws in. Perhaps you saw those flaws as attractions once upon a time, but familiarity can sometimes breed contempt. So, you wander off one night and drunkenly stumble into a Denny’s at 2am. Next thing you know you’ve driven a waitress back to her place somehow avoiding a potential DUI, car wreck, mugging (maybe by the waitress that could be a thief wanting nothing more than to roll you for your money). You wake up next to Broom Hilda the next morning..no makeup and hair extensions lying haphazardly all over the bed full of your fluids. Coyote ugly flower lying there to the extent you would chew your arm off to get it out from under her without waking her. You sneak away. At that point you start thinking about that long-time girlfriend left behind. The flaws have faded from your mind. The drop-dead gorgeousness and intimate comradely/support you shared for decades is the image you see. The one-night stand you will leave at Denny’s, because we all know “what happens at Denny’s..stays at Denny’s” and try to get yourself right with the mistake you made. You instantly make a bee-line back home again and appreciate the greatness realizing the other options out there. BTW, I’ve played OOTP for about 5 hours the last couple days. Edwin Diaz has not blown a save since and got his ERA back under 4. Last edited by dcordash; 08-11-2022 at 02:52 PM.

08-11-2022, 03:22 PM	#2
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	Yes. OOTP certainly has it’s flaws but for me it is much, much better than the other sim baseball games. I still sometimes look around and then I realize how good OOTP is for me despite it’s flaws and I come back.

08-11-2022, 03:36 PM	#3
Marinersfan51 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 777	As frustrating as the issues and quirks of OOTP can be at times, it is head and shoulders above every other sports sim in the sports that interest me (baseball, basketball, and american football).

08-11-2022, 11:47 PM	#6
fredbeene All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,631	It is astounding there is no competition.....competition is what will make OOTPB better. Strat hasn't done crap in 20 years

08-11-2022, 11:48 PM	#7
fredbeene All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,631	Just as astounding there below avg Basketball and Football equivalents.

08-12-2022, 09:08 AM	#9
md40022 All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 740 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Considering that you were actively complaining about numerous things about 8 minutes before making this post, you must have ran thru testing those other games out pretty quickly, while getting your pitching coach to "right" the Edwin Diaz ship at the same time. Impressive.

08-12-2022, 01:16 PM	#12
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,224	Puresim - oh how I wish OOTP could create a weekly newspaper/recap like that game did.

08-13-2022, 11:29 PM	#16
Bottom Of The Sixth All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 1,255	Wow, is this subject bringing me back in time.... I too, played PureSim and BM. BM I just flat out didn't like because of the way it looked so generic. PS was fun when it worked for me. I used to experience crashes from time to time and when I would post stuff on the forum, 99% of the time, my issues/problems were ignored and others, who were in the "circle" always got responses and help from the developer and it was like that alot of the time. After seeing things play out like that several times for me, I started searching around the web looking for some other baseball sim and that is how I first found out about OOTP and I have been hooked ever since. OOTP has a top-notch community that helps support and promote the game series.

08-14-2022, 12:36 AM	#17
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	What's being said here is very true...however that doesn't mean I wished some good stiff competition would come along. The lack of competition is NOT good for the advancement of OOTP. I think a true competitor would help drive the product to new heights.

08-14-2022, 10:53 AM	#18
Baby Ruth All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Reading Posts: 632 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	I actually preferred Puresim to OOTP. I played that game endlessly. If the developer had stuck to focusing on just that game instead of going off into the mobile application area I would probably still be playing it today. But you can't fault someone for doing what they need (and want) to do to make a living.

08-14-2022, 10:56 AM	#19
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,966 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Baseball Mogul really ticked me off when they took away the ability for guys to turn into dolphins.

08-16-2022, 04:52 PM	#20
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 3,022	I had a long run with APBA computer game. But they do not make an Apple version; only for PC. In retrospect, the game engine cannot compete with OOTP, and there is no financial part, or minor leagues, or player development. It’s dependent still on their cards and dice game, which is a classic. I keep mine around for when the power goes out and the batteries die. Rolling dice at the apocalypse.