Starting Players & Depth Charts

[Baby Ruth]

If you were going to advise a noob on how to create these items, how would you go about doing it? I'm trying to get my team competitive based on the players I have, and have some very simple questions:

1) Who should be in the starting lineup? What criteria should decide this?
2) Which should you do first: lineups and then depth charts or depth charts and then lineups?
3) Regardless of which you do first, how do you decide how frequently a non-starter should play?

I'm having a really hard time getting consistent results out of my players, and I think I need to go back to the basics and start from the ground up.

On top of that, we seem to be very good at blowing our commanding lead in the 8th or 9th inning. How do I stop that bleeding?

[Leo_The_Lip]

The answer that makes all your depth vs. lineup stuff irrelevant is :

Platoon, platoon, platoon.

If you understand that, the starters and depth charts fill themselves in.

Not understanding that is likely why you are struggling.

[Baby Ruth]

So what does 'platoon, platoon, platoon' mean, and how does make lineups and depth charts irrelevant?

[Baby Ruth]

So, does anyone have any pointers for going about these fundamental tasks as a manager? I mean, I could probably just put who I think are my best starting 8 in and have them play every day. Why would you do otherwise? Maybe my players aren't just good enough to compete and that's why I'm having the poor results.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Baby Ruth

So what does 'platoon, platoon, platoon' mean, and how does make lineups and depth charts irrelevant?

Basically, platooning means for the positions at which you don't have a star player, but say you have a guy who does well against right-handed pitchers (RHPs), but not LHPs, then find a guy who also plays that position, but is the opposite in that he is good against LHPs, but not RHPs. Then in the depth charts set the appropriate guy in that fielding slot against the pitchers he's good against. It's a much cheaper way to go about being successful, but the problem is you have a limited roster. So what you might want to do is focus on getting players who will start regardless of the pitcher and then backfill with platoons at the other positions. You'll typically see platoons at positions that aren't as key defensively, like LF, RF, 1B (maybe 3B, CF, 2B).

To answer your original questions:

1) How do you decide who to start is largely based on how much value you put on defense vs offense for that position. Of course, we'd all love to have the best players at both, but rarely is that going to happen. For most positions and most people, offense will trump defense, but there are certain key positions, like SS and C (maybe 2B, CF, 3B), that most people will be fine with giving up some offense if they can play a guy who is much better defensively. Even then, however, you might have someone who is good offensively that you're willing to take the hit defensively at that position. Defense is usually a cheaper route however.

2) Which should you do first, lineups or depth charts, do depth charts first.

3) How often should backups play, I don't much care, I just let OOTP decide. What you should focus on is just getting the best players you can.

4) For how to stop losing late, get better relievers. It can be difficult as relievers have more volatility to them, but if you stockpile them as much as possible (in the minors), then you'll have a better chance that some of them will develop. That, and maybe you need better defensive players.

[Baby Ruth]

Thanks for the tips, kq76, especially regarding the platooning. That makes a lot of sense. I'm also keen on the idea of getting better relievers. I don't feel it's my defense or offense that's losing us the game in the late innings. My pitchers just seem to be allowing more hits, and it's frustrating, especially when it's frequently with 2 outs and runners on base. Too many times they are letting the other team catch and even pass us in those situations.

[Pelican]

Just put together a longish discussion of how I handle this. Pushed post and was redirected back to log-in. Logged in again, and the post vanished. Hoping it was not lost and pops up later. To the monitors, this same thing happened yesterday, again with a longish post. It’s as if the site times out - with no warning - after ten or fifteen minutes. I am going to have to copy and save my posts until this is fixed.

[Baby Ruth]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Just put together a longish discussion of how I handle this. Pushed post and was redirected back to log-in. Logged in again, and the post vanished. Hoping it was not lost and pops up later. To the monitors, this same thing happened yesterday, again with a longish post. It’s as if the site times out - with no warning - after ten or fifteen minutes. I am going to have to copy and save my posts until this is fixed.

Weird. The only thing I've been seeing at times is that it's a double post, even though I only submit it once. It's almost like it's interpreting my click as two clicks in a row, but it's only on this site I've had that happen.

[Leo_The_Lip]

What kq76 said about platooning.

OOTP is very modern in its player generation, so right handed hitters who do best versus lefty pitchers and left-handed batters who do very poorly against lefty pitchers dominate the landscape. So you need to have one set of players who start versus righties (the majority of games) and one set against lefties.

By doing this, you reduce fatigue at the positions you are platooning at.

After I set the starters, I let the AI decide on the substitutes and how often they start. Usually I don't like everything and I'll drop "start every X days" to less frequent for starters who I want to play more. Unless the AI made the subs appear less frequently than I'd like. Also, OOTP will decide when your players are too tired to start, so there is that aspect.

What kind of players will be on your team is your choice. So more defense, more power, higher batting averages or patience and walks is all up to you. What kind of players do you like?

[Baby Ruth]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

What kq76 said about platooning.

OOTP is very modern in its player generation, so right handed hitters who do best versus lefty pitchers and left-handed batters who do very poorly against lefty pitchers dominate the landscape. So you need to have one set of players who start versus righties (the majority of games) and one set against lefties.

By doing this, you reduce fatigue at the positions you are platooning at.

After I set the starters, I let the AI decide on the substitutes and how often they start. Usually I don't like everything and I'll drop "start every X days" to less frequent for starters who I want to play more. Unless the AI made the subs appear less frequently than I'd like. Also, OOTP will decide when your players are too tired to start, so there is that aspect.

What kind of players will be on your team is your choice. So more defense, more power, higher batting averages or patience and walks is all up to you. What kind of players do you like?

I personally prefer to have reliable power at the plate. I want to be able to enable my batters to hit past/through the infielders and get a solid position on the bases. I like to combine this with speed to go for a lot of stolen bases. My goal is to get a good enough lead that if my pitchers mess up it's not going to be fatal.

[Pelican]

I’ll try to recreate what was lost. My approach is to begin with setting lineups versus RHP and LHP (and with DH if you use it), then list a sub for each position, and set how often the sub is used. For my studs, the sub is used only if the starter is tired or injured. Where two players are relatively close, I will set the sub to play every second day or whatever. Remember though that catchers need regular rest, and that older players with less stamina need breaks. Of course, if you manage every game, you can override these settings, stay with the hot hand, bench guys who aren’t performing. I also like to use Sunday day games (after a Saturday night game) to give lots of guys a day off. The AI often does the same thing for the opponent.

I platoon; but I also check each hitter’s performance on the BNN page versus RHP and LHP. Some guys, obviously switch-hitters, are unaffected. I use 0-100 ratings, so that any ratings difference more than ten is worth considering a platoon. In game situations, remember to check the opposing pitcher’s ratings against RHB and LHB. Some vary way more than others do. And I would urge you to consider lefty/right matchups with your bullpen late in games. Hopefully, you have at least one lefty specialist to use. I have at least two.

One somewhat modern trend I endorse is using a power pitcher to bail out a flagging starter, before your setup guys and closer. In other words, go ahead and use the guy with great stuff with the game on the line and the heart of the opposing order coming up. If he can get through, you can count on your other guys to close things out.

Also, note that starting pitchers, even good ones pitching strong games, tend to “lose it” all at once in OOTP. (I think this may be acceptance of the “third time through the order” penalty…) If you’re managing and a dude throws four straight balls to start an inning, get a reliever up, go the mound to settle him down. Usually the dialogue is along the lines of “I’m fine”; but sometimes he will say “one more hitter” or something indicating he’s about done. Same with pitches up in the zone (use the optional pitch chart screen for this), and long drives, even if caught. It’s the AI’s way of telling you to make a change. Of course, this is modern pitcher durability (or lack thereof), not applicable to the1970’s and earlier.

[Pelican]

One more thought on late innings is that in OOTP (and IRL) 25-50 games can still be a relatively small sample size. Meaning the breaks even out in the long run. I hope that applies to your team’s late-inning meltdowns. In addition to bullpen usage, don’t hesitate to deploy punch-hitters; although it’s tough to have both a deep bullpen and a deep bench. Even harder to also have a defensive specialist or two; but they can make a difference at key positions (up the middle: C, SS, 2B, CF). In a non-DH league, I will frequently use four or five relievers, with corresponding pinch-hitters. I admit to getting caught a few times in extra-inning games, having to use a starter in relief. But I basically manage every game like it’s the seventh game of the World Series.

[Baby Ruth]

That's an awesome explanation of how you do things, Pelican. I appreciate it very much. I guess it comes down to really having to spend some time doing data analysis, which is fine, though I tend to get jumpy and want to try things out in an actual game to see how my changes work. It's hard to patient!

[Baby Ruth]

What's the best way to see all players rated, no matter how poorly, at each position? For example, I want to see all players that are rated at 2B and what that rating is? I'm sure it's somewhere obvious, but there are a lot of data grids in this application.

EDIT: Never mind. I found it. You have to go to Players, filter by position, and the select the Position Ratings view.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Originally Posted by Baby Ruth

I want to be able to enable my batters to hit past/through the infielders and get a solid position on the bases.

Not to pick on you, but I have been playing/reading about/watching baseball since 1958 and I have never heard a sentence like that uttered in all those decades. Are you from Reading, England--as opposed to Pennsylvania? Perhaps that's the bigger issue.

For the most part if a player has power, he lacks speed and vice versa. Power has NOTHING to do with hitting the ball hard! In OOTP it literally is the ability to hit home runs--and therefore run around the bases without stopping or "getting a solid position."

Over the decades, teams steal bases because they lack power. If you have a lineup of sluggers, don't waste an out getting thrown out trying to steal because the chance of the batter hitting one out is above average.

[Baby Ruth]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

For the most part if a player has power, he lacks speed and vice versa. Power has NOTHING to do with hitting the ball hard! In OOTP it literally is the ability to hit home runs--and therefore run around the bases without stopping or "getting a solid position."

Over the decades, teams steal bases because they lack power. If you have
a lineup of sluggers, don't waste an out getting thrown out trying to steal because the chance of the batter hitting one out is above average.

So what rating on a player determines what I'm looking for: the ability to get good hits that are out of the infield but not necessarily out of the park (which is harder to do in the deadball era, which is where I play)?

When I use the word 'power' I'm using it in a generic sense, as in being strong and being able to hit the ball hard, not necessarily in a homerun-hitting sense. The in-game manual defines the Gap Power rating, but not the plan Power rating.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Baby Ruth

So what rating on a player determines what I'm looking for: the ability to get good hits that are out of the infield but not necessarily out of the park (which is harder to do in the deadball era, which is where I play)?

When I use the word 'power' I'm using it in a generic sense, as in being strong and being able to hit the ball hard, not necessarily in a homerun-hitting sense. The in-game manual defines the Gap Power rating, but not the plan Power rating.

I'm not the person you asked the question, but given what you said in your first sentence, it is Gap Power that you are thinking of. Gap Power is what indicates a player's ability/tendency to get extra base hits that are not home runs (as you said above, not out of the park). The Power rating in OOTP is the ability/tendency to hit the ball out of the park (to hit home runs.)
The game does have exit velocities for balls put in play, but those are mostly cosmetic as I understand it. As others have said here, OOTP is not a physics-based game, but a ratings-based game. But something like exit velocities would most clearly mirror what you are asking for specifically, which is the hit the ball hard element of baseball. (Hitting the ball hard is, in fact, a pretty good indicator of success as a hitter in baseball, but far from the only one, and doesn't always correlate that well with getting on base.)

[Baby Ruth]

Thank for that explanation, BirdWatcher. I agree that what I'm looking for is Gap Power vs. absolute Power. Though I've owned a number of versions of OOTP I've never become an expert at all the different data under the hood.