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OOTP 21 - General Discussions Everything about the brand new version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB and the MLBPA. |
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#1 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,085
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Do Power Pitchers or Finesse Pitchers benefit more from a great Catcher?
INTRODUCTION
A topic that came up in another thread was whether Power Pitchers or Finesse Pitchers benefit more from a Catcher with excellent Catcher Ability. The Catcher Ability skill encompasses framing, and notably improves K/9 and BB/9 rates for pitchers in OOTP. My immediate thought was that Power Pitchers would benefit more... just because of the way OOTP works. If a great Catcher improves K/9 and BB/9 rates... then logically higher numbers will cause larger percentage swings. If you get 10% more Ks and 10% fewer BBs as an example, then the guy with high Stuff and low Control is going to benefit more. Other people thought more about the strike zone in baseball, and that a Control pitcher who tries to throw strikes/avoid balls and paint the corners would benefit more from framing and getting close calls go their way. So does my hypothesis hold up in testing? Well, yes. But the intention is not to toot my own horn, just to do a quick test and potentially help people with their lineup construction. THE TEST So we turn to the granddaddy of strikeouts and walks: Nolan Ryan. I pair him with Frank Tanana on the 1978 Angels. Nolan is all power and Frank is more finesse. I bump Tanana's MOV a bit cause it's fairly weak, and I don't want to cause some noise in the results. Then I adjust Brian Downing's Catcher Ability accordingly (and his backup friend). Test 1: 100 Catcher Ability Test 2: 200 Catcher Ability Test 3: 50 Catcher Ability We're up against the Kansas City Royals for 25,000 games each, who have a good mix of RHB and LHB hitters. So as not to sway the results in either Nolan (RHP) or Frank's (LHP) direction. THE RESULTS I've attached the results below. The answer is quite clear, that Power Pitchers will benefit more from a Catcher with high Catcher Ability. Eerily, Nolan Ryan's ERA both went up and down 11.47% in either direction. Frank Tanana's results were more muted, even more than the Angels as a whole. |
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#2 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,607
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This makes sense, as I believe catching ability influences balls and strikes (or, in game terms, Stuff and Control) and has little to no effect on BABIP (which pitchers as a whole don't have a lot of control over anyway). So a guy who in a normal environment would strike out 8 men per 9 innings is bound to get a bigger boost from someone who is able to bump that up by 10% than a guy who would strike out 6 per 9 in the same situation.
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#3 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ban land in 3...2...
Posts: 2,943
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It makes sense that it does work that way
I'm not sure it should work that way Anyway added to the studies page Edit Related: does anyone know if there is a penalty by count? Batters hit worse when they are behind in the count? If not, that might explain some of the disparity. Finesse pitchers would rely more on being ahead in the count and good catchers would help them to be ahead in the count more often Last edited by CBeisbol; 12-21-2020 at 04:46 PM. |
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#4 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,085
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I don't think the ball/strike count matters. It only matters if you're cheating by hitting "take pitch" until you get to 2 strikes, then letting the batter do as they wish. That will rack up the opposing pitch counts and tire out a staff/bullpen. But I believe each plate appearance has some generated seed that "pre-decides" the outcome.
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#5 | |
Minors (Triple A)
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 251
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Quote:
Though I'm not sure whether taking more pitches also leads to more strikeouts or not. |
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#6 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ban land in 3...2...
Posts: 2,943
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There's definitely a correlation between hitters/pitchers counts and OPS
I'd assume that the count, then, is seeded as well. |
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#7 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,325
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It makes sense because a guy who already walks almost no one can't really walk too many fewer hitters, but a guy who strikes out 10 guys can always benefit from striking out 11.
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#8 |
Minors (Triple A)
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 251
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#9 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 638
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You tell that catcher of yours to drop that 3rd strike and chuck the ball into the stands!! duh!!!
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() EDIT: Oh, and then you trade that pitcher to me for my 22-year-old half-star/half-star unrated catcher who has a 40 Arm.
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"I'm on the side that's always lost against the side of Heaven. I'm on the side of snake-eyes tossed against the side of seven" - Leonard Cohen "The Captain" Last edited by ALB123; 12-22-2020 at 06:50 AM. |
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