Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 26 Available - FHM 11 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 26 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Baseball 21 > OOTP 21 - General Discussions

OOTP 21 - General Discussions Everything about the brand new version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB and the MLBPA.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-21-2020, 03:41 PM   #1
Argonaut
All Star Starter
 
Argonaut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,085
Do Power Pitchers or Finesse Pitchers benefit more from a great Catcher?

INTRODUCTION

A topic that came up in another thread was whether Power Pitchers or Finesse Pitchers benefit more from a Catcher with excellent Catcher Ability. The Catcher Ability skill encompasses framing, and notably improves K/9 and BB/9 rates for pitchers in OOTP.

My immediate thought was that Power Pitchers would benefit more... just because of the way OOTP works. If a great Catcher improves K/9 and BB/9 rates... then logically higher numbers will cause larger percentage swings. If you get 10% more Ks and 10% fewer BBs as an example, then the guy with high Stuff and low Control is going to benefit more.

Other people thought more about the strike zone in baseball, and that a Control pitcher who tries to throw strikes/avoid balls and paint the corners would benefit more from framing and getting close calls go their way.

So does my hypothesis hold up in testing? Well, yes. But the intention is not to toot my own horn, just to do a quick test and potentially help people with their lineup construction.

THE TEST

So we turn to the granddaddy of strikeouts and walks: Nolan Ryan. I pair him with Frank Tanana on the 1978 Angels. Nolan is all power and Frank is more finesse. I bump Tanana's MOV a bit cause it's fairly weak, and I don't want to cause some noise in the results. Then I adjust Brian Downing's Catcher Ability accordingly (and his backup friend).

Test 1: 100 Catcher Ability
Test 2: 200 Catcher Ability
Test 3: 50 Catcher Ability

We're up against the Kansas City Royals for 25,000 games each, who have a good mix of RHB and LHB hitters. So as not to sway the results in either Nolan (RHP) or Frank's (LHP) direction.

THE RESULTS

I've attached the results below. The answer is quite clear, that Power Pitchers will benefit more from a Catcher with high Catcher Ability. Eerily, Nolan Ryan's ERA both went up and down 11.47% in either direction. Frank Tanana's results were more muted, even more than the Angels as a whole.
Attached Images
Image 
Argonaut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2020, 03:52 PM   #2
Syd Thrift
Hall Of Famer
 
Syd Thrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,607
This makes sense, as I believe catching ability influences balls and strikes (or, in game terms, Stuff and Control) and has little to no effect on BABIP (which pitchers as a whole don't have a lot of control over anyway). So a guy who in a normal environment would strike out 8 men per 9 innings is bound to get a bigger boost from someone who is able to bump that up by 10% than a guy who would strike out 6 per 9 in the same situation.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn
You bastard....
The Great American Baseball Thrift Book - Like reading the Sporting News from back in the day, only with fake players. REAL LIFE DRAMA THOUGH maybe not
Syd Thrift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2020, 04:34 PM   #3
CBeisbol
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ban land in 3...2...
Posts: 2,943
It makes sense that it does work that way

I'm not sure it should work that way


Anyway added to the studies page



Edit
Related: does anyone know if there is a penalty by count? Batters hit worse when they are behind in the count?

If not, that might explain some of the disparity. Finesse pitchers would rely more on being ahead in the count and good catchers would help them to be ahead in the count more often

Last edited by CBeisbol; 12-21-2020 at 04:46 PM.
CBeisbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2020, 07:05 PM   #4
Argonaut
All Star Starter
 
Argonaut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,085
I don't think the ball/strike count matters. It only matters if you're cheating by hitting "take pitch" until you get to 2 strikes, then letting the batter do as they wish. That will rack up the opposing pitch counts and tire out a staff/bullpen. But I believe each plate appearance has some generated seed that "pre-decides" the outcome.
Argonaut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2020, 09:35 PM   #5
Timofmars
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argonaut View Post
I don't think the ball/strike count matters. It only matters if you're cheating by hitting "take pitch" until you get to 2 strikes, then letting the batter do as they wish. That will rack up the opposing pitch counts and tire out a staff/bullpen. But I believe each plate appearance has some generated seed that "pre-decides" the outcome.
I tend to think this is totally the case. I mean, I can draw walks that I think my batter would have hit into play if I chose to swing away, without pitcher fatigue being the issue. My team OBP is consistently the highest in the league because I give poor control pitchers a chance to issue a walk, especially if their stuff isn't high or I have a good avoid-k batter.

Though I'm not sure whether taking more pitches also leads to more strikeouts or not.
Timofmars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2020, 09:47 PM   #6
CBeisbol
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ban land in 3...2...
Posts: 2,943
There's definitely a correlation between hitters/pitchers counts and OPS

I'd assume that the count, then, is seeded as well.
CBeisbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2020, 01:52 AM   #7
RonCo
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,325
It makes sense because a guy who already walks almost no one can't really walk too many fewer hitters, but a guy who strikes out 10 guys can always benefit from striking out 11.
RonCo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2020, 04:51 AM   #8
Timofmars
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonCo View Post
It makes sense because a guy who already walks almost no one can't really walk too many fewer hitters, but a guy who strikes out 10 guys can always benefit from striking out 11.
But what do I do when my guy strikes out 27?
Timofmars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2020, 06:48 AM   #9
ALB123
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timofmars View Post
But what do I do when my guy strikes out 27?
You tell that catcher of yours to drop that 3rd strike and chuck the ball into the stands!! duh!!!

EDIT: Oh, and then you trade that pitcher to me for my 22-year-old half-star/half-star unrated catcher who has a 40 Arm.
__________________
"I'm on the side that's always lost against the side of Heaven. I'm on the side of snake-eyes tossed against the side of seven" - Leonard Cohen "The Captain"

Last edited by ALB123; 12-22-2020 at 06:50 AM.
ALB123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:50 PM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2024 Out of the Park Developments