The "correct" position for a player?

[FuzzyDarkness]

Hello! I am sorry for this maybe dumb question but I'm totally new, so...

When opening a player page, in the upper right corner are the stats for "Position Ratings". I've seen ratings for example "left field 65" and "center field 45" but still the players position is shown as center field. Should I assign every player his best position rating or am I missing something here?

I bought the game yesterday, so bare with me.

Thank you!

[Brad K]

I assign the position in the roster list to the position I'm going to have the player play. This may or may not be his best position. Where anyone plays is affected by team needs.

In my current game with the beginning of post season the program adjusted players positions giving me four 2B. Well, one will be my SS and another my CF backup.

[Syd Thrift]

Yeah, for non pitchers at least the position is cosmetic; it’s the ratings that matter. Your guy is probably going to be a LF because generally speaking a 45/80 is not high enough to play CF on a good team, but besides that, yeah, you’re fine.

[CBeisbol]

Everything is relative

Generally, every player is going to be better in LF than in CF and worse at SS than any other IF position because CF and SS are the two hardest positions to play.

If you moved all your players to their best positions all your players would end up in LF and 1B.

Now, for example, your SS might not have any rating at 1B. That's because the positional ratings are based off of the defensive ratings (Range, Arm, Error and Double Play) and Experience. If you play your SS at 1B they will get very good there. Your 1B can also play SS, but will probably be terrible

Certain positions rely more, relatively, on certain ratings. CF and SS - range. 3B and RF - arm.



There's a link in my signature to user studies. One study is about defensive positions. That might be useful to you. Note, though, that the information about LF may not be correct (see my post at the end of the thread)

This article talks about the defensive spectrum
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/position-adjustments/

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Your guy is probably going to be a LF because generally speaking a 45/80 is not high enough to play CF on a good team

Depends. What if there's no place else to put him, its 1966, and his name is Matty Alou?

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Now, for example, your SS might not have any rating at 1B. That's because the positional ratings are based off of the defensive ratings (Range, Arm, Error and Double Play) and Experience. If you play your SS at 1B they will get very good there.

True. I played a good fielding 2B at 1B in spring training because I had a crowded IF and by opening day he was 20/20 at 1B. But no way he'd play there unless a load of people go on the IL.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Your guy is probably going to be a LF because generally speaking a 45/80 is not high enough to play CF on a good team,

Totally depends on the offense,
A 45/80 CFer could be an ALL-STAR or MVP

45/80 just means they are a bit worse than the average CF defensively.

(I thought I knew this to be true. Now, I'm not sure. The manual says that overall ratings are relative to other players at that position. Is that true of the component ratings, as well? The manual is unclear. https://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com...overall_rating)

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Totally depends on the offense,
A 45/80 CFer could be an ALL-STAR or MVP

45/80 just means they are a bit worse than the average CF defensively.

(I thought I knew this to be true. Now, I'm not sure. The manual says that overall ratings are relative to other players at that position. Is that true of the component ratings, as well? The manual is unclear. https://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com...overall_rating)

45/80 means slightly worse than the median position player at that position *overall*, meaning that you're balancing the regular players with the guys who can technically play there with a 20 or a 25 but who really, really should not. And since this is on a per-player, not a per-innings-played basis, you're looking at, basically, half of a bell curve. At the 45/80 level you're about at the point to where there are still many players rated highly at the position, enough that most of them will probably be starting, and so your 45/80 guy will wind up being one of the worst, if not the worst, starters in your league.

That means that for CFs and SSs in particular, you really shouldn't play around with a lot of 45/80s unless they are *really* good on offense and even then you'll probably want to move them to a position they're more comfortable at sooner or later.

[FuzzyDarkness]

Well, the game seems amazing so far (a bit overwhelming but I'm willing to learn) and this forum seems amazing too! Thank you so much for your answers everybody!

[BirdWatcher]

I feel like something missing (well, not completely missing, but under-developed) in this discussion is the difference between positional ratings and the underlying defensive ratings of the players.

Just because he is a 45 currently that does not mean he doesn't have the potential to be an above average or better center fielder. What are his outfield defensive ratings: his range, his error rating, his arm rating? (In terms of being able to be a valuable center fielder that range rating is particularly key.) If this is a young player, or a player who just hasn't recently played center field much, just because his positional rating is higher in left field (as Cbeisbol mentioned, a much easier position to excel at), doesn't mean he doesn't have the skills to play center field. Now, granted, if he is currently a 45 you might have to live with some sub-par defense from him in center until he builds up more experience at that position and that number rises.

Now, don't misunderstand me, just playing the position is no guarantee that the positional rating will go up. (And if he's over 26 or 27+ and has played quite a bit of center then, yeah, this probably isn't going to budge much.) Mostly what I'm saying is that it is far more important that you look closely at his underlying defensive skills as an outfielder. The kind of player you described here might really need a positional change to left field but then again he might be a fine center fielder who just hasn't developed into his potential yet. We would need more information to give you an educated answer to which is the case.

[FuzzyDarkness]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

... We would need more information to give you an educated answer to which is the case.

I really appreciate your answer and I'm sure in the future I'll ask more questions but for now, as I only play since yesterday, I don't even know anymore the player I was using as an example.

For now I am simulating through huge parts of the season and let the coaches do all the work. Then, one step at a time I realize what I want to be handled differently and set the automatic function off.

I don't know if that is the right approach but doing everything is too much at the moment.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by FuzzyDarkness

I really appreciate your answer and I'm sure in the future I'll ask more questions but for now, as I only play since yesterday, I don't even know anymore the player I was using as an example.

For now I am simulating through huge parts of the season and let the coaches do all the work. Then, one step at a time I realize what I want to be handled differently and set the automatic function off.

I don't know if that is the right approach but doing everything is too much at the moment.

Whatever works for you, especially given that this game has a pretty steep learning curve, is the right approach.

[FuzzyDarkness]

I know this might not be the correct thread to post this but I am pretty proud as I just won the world series and this was the one player I was concentrating on as I am pretty new to the game and still figuring everything out.


I am still just focusing on one aspect of the game and seeing what effect it has. It is an amazing game but so overwhelming.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

45/80 means slightly worse than the median position player at that position *overall*, meaning that you're balancing the regular players with the guys who can technically play there with a 20 or a 25 but who really, really should not. And since this is on a per-player, not a per-innings-played basis, you're looking at, basically, half of a bell curve. At the 45/80 level you're about at the point to where there are still many players rated highly at the position, enough that most of them will probably be starting, and so your 45/80 guy will wind up being one of the worst, if not the worst, starters in your league.

That means that for CFs and SSs in particular, you really shouldn't play around with a lot of 45/80s unless they are *really* good on offense and even then you'll probably want to move them to a position they're more comfortable at sooner or later.

1975. 20 teams. rating scale 1 - 20

25 CFs rated 11+
31 OFs rated 11+ at CF

17 CFs rated 1 - 10
68 OFs rated 1 - 10 at CF

OK so let's cut off the bottom end, the guys who really have no chance of playing except for a team with so many injuries it called up all the AAA guys.

17 CFs rated 5 - 10
42 OFs rated 5 - 10 at CF

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I assign the position in the roster list to the position I'm going to have the player play. This may or may not be his best position. Where anyone plays is affected by team needs.

In my current game with the beginning of post season the program adjusted players positions giving me four 2B. Well, one will be my SS and another my CF backup.

Change of plans for that backup CF. Over the off season the starting CF forgot how to play CF or ate too many pizzas or something... fell from 12/20 to 3/20. He's not that great of a hitter. Don't have a spot for him in LF or RF so I traded him for a pitching prospect (had to cover 30% of his salary) and the guy the computer originally had as a 2B is now the starting CF.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Brad K

1975. 20 teams. rating scale 1 - 20



25 CFs rated 11+

31 OFs rated 11+ at CF



17 CFs rated 1 - 10

68 OFs rated 1 - 10 at CF



OK so let's cut off the bottom end, the guys who really have no chance of playing except for a team with so many injuries it called up all the AAA guys.



17 CFs rated 5 - 10

42 OFs rated 5 - 10 at CF

So, yeah, 24 teams and 25 CFs rated 11+ (a 45 is about an 8 or 9). Sounds about right to me. You're not necessarily making a crazy out of position move by playing an 8-9 rated CF regularly, but a. you probably have access to someone better and b. you will probably have one of the worst defenses in CF in the league.

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[Brad K]

I hadn't drawn any conclusions from the data. However I will suggest that some of those 11+ rated CFs aren't starting because they're .190 hitters.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I hadn't drawn any conclusions from the data. However I will suggest that some of those 11+ rated CFs aren't starting because they're .190 hitters.

That's often a tradeoff you have to make at defense-first positions, yes. Even if 6 of those guys are replacement level hitters though, your 45/80 CF will be one of the worst fielders at the position in the league. The same goes for SS, if not more so. Theres a reason why guys like Mario Mendoza got so many PAs in real life...

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[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

So, yeah, 24 teams and 25 CFs rated 11+ (a 45 is about an 8 or 9). Sounds about right to me. You're not necessarily making a crazy out of position move by playing an 8-9 rated CF regularly, but a. you probably have access to someone better and b. you will probably have one of the worst defenses in CF in the league.

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I have found in 60s historical its hard to get a CF rated above half the scale. Its a little easier 70s but anyone you get is likely to fall to under half - perhaps well under half - in three years or so.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

That's often a tradeoff you have to make at defense-first positions, yes. Even if 6 of those guys are replacement level hitters though, your 45/80 CF will be one of the worst fielders at the position in the league. The same goes for SS, if not more so. Theres a reason why guys like Mario Mendoza got so many PAs in real life...

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Ah yes, he's currently in AAA in my organization.