Is the "steal" command bugged?

[thklein]

This relates to a discussion from another thread, but I wanted to give it it's own thread in the hopes of getting some clarity.

As I understand it, you have the following options when you have a runner on base:

Hit and run -- hitter swings no matter what; runner runs no matter what

Run and hit -- Runner runs no matter what, hitter elects whether to swing

Send forced -- Runners that are subject to force out run no matter what, batter elects whether to swing

Steal -- Runner elects whether or not to run, batter does not swing (at least in my experience of hundreds of games played)

I'm not sure if the batter not swinging is a bug or intentional. But either way, the above options don't give the option of having the runner elect whether or not to run and the batter elect whether or not to swing. In my opinion, that's what "steal" should be. But I've been playing this game for over 15 years, and I have never seen a batter swing at a pitch when I selected "steal."

[Syd Thrift]

When a team puts out a steal sign, the batter is generally directed to take, yes.

[thklein]

I don't know if I agree that is "generally" the case, but in any event there are certainly instances where the runner has a green light to steal and the batter is free to swing or not. Vince Coleman had a green light to steal every time he was on base. Batters swung at pitches when Vince Coleman was on base.

[CBeisbol]

They are right though

There's no reason for the runner having the option to run and the hitter having the option to swing not existing.

It certainly exists in baseball where, during a plate appearance, a runner has the option to go and the batter may swing.

But it doesn't exist in OOTP

[pgjocki]

I just want to steal and not give the guy the option and I don't want the batter to do anything.

It pisses me off when I mash 4 and the guy doesn't run then the dumbass batter hits into a double play the next pitch.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[thklein]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

When a team puts out a steal sign, the batter is generally directed to take, yes.

I've done some googling and haven't found anything to suggest this is true. I've found debates over whether or not batters should always take when the runner is stealing, mostly between little league coaches. That makes sense, because you probably aren't giving a little leaguer a "green light." You're either telling him to run or not.

I've also seen people argue that swinging through a pitch on a steal attempt protects the runner by making it harder for the catcher to make the throw. I have not found anything to suggest there is a generally agreed upon consensus that a batter should never swing when a runner has a green light to run. I should have the option of doing this in the game.

[Syd Thrift]

I don’t know that the batter actually receives a straight up take the way he does if, you know, you tell him to take. Batters will still take the majority of the time because that’s what you do on steal attempts but they don’t always do so. If you want the runner to go and the batter to swing, there’s also the run and hit option.

That being said, sure, there could be an optional “green light but let the batter swing away” option. OOTP has long been of the opinion that they don’t add stuff that unnecessarily complicates the game but you can make the argument otherwise (or that batters should just not take as often on steal attempts).

[noragar]

Originally Posted by thklein

Send forced -- Runners that are subject to force out run no matter what, batter elects whether to swing

This option has nothing to do with whether the runner is subject to force out. This option forces the runner to go whether or not he gets a good jump. Someone later in the thread was asking for a way to do this.

[thklein]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I don’t know that the batter actually receives a straight up take the way he does if, you know, you tell him to take. Batters will still take the majority of the time because that’s what you do on steal attempts but they don’t always do so. If you want the runner to go and the batter to swing, there’s also the run and hit option.

That being said, sure, there could be an optional “green light but let the batter swing away” option. OOTP has long been of the opinion that they don’t add stuff that unnecessarily complicates the game but you can make the argument otherwise (or that batters should just not take as often on steal attempts).

"batters will take the majority of the time" is a lot different than "batter will stand there with the bat on their shoulder and watch strike three go right past them." It is straight up wrong that the steal sign results in batters taking 100% of the time. It's not how it works in real life. I could see having the steal sign on making the batter less likely to swing, but it should not be that they flat out never swing. Fixing this is not overly complicating the game. It's fixing something that's broken.

I don't want to do "run and hit" because I don't want the runner to go if he doesn't get a good jump. I want the runner to go if he get's a good jump and I want the batter to swing if he gets a good pitch. Like happens in Major League Baseball games all the time.

[Syd Thrift]

I'd be all for changing the implied "take" on steals to "only take X% of the time", although even there I think you'd want to adjust that for stuff like player personality traits (a less Adaptable player might not like being told not to swing, and so might just go ahead and do it anyway; likewise a Selfish player). Maybe to make up for some of the lost steal attempts, you make baserunners occasionally try to steal on their own (probably also based at least to some degree on personality ratings). I realize that the latter would be maddening, especially when the guy trying to steal is 1986 era Will Clark, but a. you'd want to balance stuff out somewhere so that the game engine doesn't start assuming you're attempting a steal way too often, and b. guys running on their own is also part of the real game.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by thklein

I don't want to do "run and hit" because I don't want the runner to go if he doesn't get a good jump. I want the runner to go if he get's a good jump and I want the batter to swing if he gets a good pitch. Like happens in Major League Baseball games all the time.

You're going to be cool with a, possibly, massively deceased success rate on those steal attempts?

I hope OOTP has it built in that any forced steal option has a decreased success rate since it's taking the decision out of the hands of the base runner.

I don't know that "steal on this pitch" really exists in MLB. I'd think it was more "green light" and "try and steal", but almost never "go on this pitch"