is playing ahead (cheating) possible in online

waltwa · 03-02-2018, 02:07 PM

I asked this question 2 or 3 editions ago and was told that cheating was possible but edition 16 or so ended that possibility.

I have been in many online leagues since it started and in the early days I recall instances where commissioners were caught cheating. that seemed to go away a few years ago.

I am always in at least 5 online leagues. rarely do I suspect cheating going on but in 1 league I am in I notice a very successful team has drafted a number of players in rds 6-16 (a 30 rd draft) who have 3 or less potential stars when drafted and turn into 5 star players. now I know this happens in ootp but it is rare. when I see multiple instances on the same team I try to figure if there is something in original ratings that would lead anyone to see a potential superstar. I can't find anything in ratings that leads a mediocre draftee to a potential superstar.

again I know the game is structured to turn mediocre draftees into future stars but it is rare and when I see it happens regularly on a team it makes me wonder. any thoughts?

NoOne · 03-02-2018, 04:02 PM

until the players deviate too much... development will be completely exclusive of each other at the split.

oh, can you not export players anymore? that would prevent it...

there may be some roundabout way to do it... make a 2nd league with exact same rules and such as far as what is causal in nature -- e.g. "year" won't matter much. maybe even name everyone the same and simply rip the .dat files and replace, in another league.

there are also programs that can compare two binary files and show the differences.. .with a lil hex-dec and assembly knoweldge you may be able to inject specific differences into the other file etc etc.. ther's likely a way, although maybe not easy.

if you can export the players, you can import tham into that league re-using existing playerID's... you may need to mass create 100 or 1000+ in order to have enough playerID's in existence. then you can do as you would and simulate ahead.

you ccould figure out % of this or that likelyhood, and those %'s wouldhold up fairly well in a short term application. then, you'd have to rinse-repeat player import every so often.

a month? a season? season probably ~okay... and just what can you gain that would be worth the ROI? rhetorical in nature... quite possibly something if you dig deep enough. i'd think about what you could do first, then decide whether to try if you see value.

waltwa · 03-02-2018, 04:54 PM

your knowledge of computers far exceeds mine. but I think what you are saying is that it is possible to gain an unfair advantage. as much time as I put into game that really bothers me and may lead me to give up online play.

NoOne · 03-02-2018, 05:05 PM

it's really minimal.. liek i said what could you gain? i'm not putting a whole lot of thoght into it...

you couldn't gain much from draft unless a majority of team owners are AI-run, as one example.

i wouldn't worry too much about it.. if you have the better team, tere's nothing they can do... definiteyl not anyhting to do with what happens in a game.

as i think, a season is way too long, the ai will devaite in behaviour too much from a human on most things... maybe 1 week at a time it's tell you somethign aobut % of this or that occuring and you could plan for it.. but this is really small potatoes. 100% impossible to help you manage a game or which player to start... that would be a knee-jerk reaciton to small sample results and end in certain failure.

if you saw a guy get hit by TCR that would not happen either.. so development is off the table as far as help.. .but if you ran it 1000 times maybe you could determine if one guy is morelikely to develope than the next.. this type of stuff is what could be gleaned.

i meant that as more theoretical... and if you can't export players anymore, not many will have the knowledge to do it... i'm not sure if i could or not (not an expert though). i'd like to have faith in my ability, though

pretyy sure another thread said you cannot export the players anymore (possibly a past post be me illustrating the potential as the cause, lol, not that it would matter if not.)

hluraven · 03-03-2018, 06:06 AM

A commissioner can play ahead at any time, for as long as they want into the future.

However, the advantage in doing so would be minimal. Player development would not turn out the same way each time, and any trends that certain players would be more likely to develop well than others can likely be worked out from personality and in-game information anyway.

If a commissioner was going to cheat in this way, they also have access to the 100% accurate potentials via the editor tab, which would be a substantially quicker way to do the same thing. Playing ahead multiple times to see which players do best would take hours (or days) to do something that could be done in seconds.

Short answer, it's possible but if you suspect cheating there are easier ways to do it, and you should probably find a new league, as once that trust is gone, it doesn't come back.

Winnipeg59 · 03-03-2018, 08:16 AM

Agree with last line above. If you suspect a Commissioner (or anyone else that may have the Commissioner p/w) is cheating, then best to move on.
There are plenty of good leagues with outstanding Commissioners that will provide a far better experience.

waltwa · 03-03-2018, 11:16 AM

is it possible for gms - not necessarily a commissioner to change ratings?

NoOne · 03-03-2018, 09:42 PM

no.

it would be incredibly obvious to other players too. scouting reports would give it away.

have a 2nd person create the comissioner password, then you have 2 people responsible and that will help keep them in check?

bwburke94 · 03-09-2018, 02:33 AM

The "quickstarting" exploit has been patched, so we won't have to worry about this sort of thing in the future.

And turning scouting off avoids the problem anyway.

kq76 · 03-09-2018, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltwa

is it possible for gms - not necessarily a commissioner to change ratings?

I don't think so, but a commissioner/simmer could also be playing under a different name or he could be changing ratings for a buddy.

As for playing ahead to see if a prospect will pan out, I really don't think that would be worth it. You could sim 25 years ahead 100 times and I don't think it would help much as the real sim could go completely different than the average. There's just so much that can go wrong or right in development that even having a stud prospect is no guarantee, much less a prospect that's not a stud.

I think the key is to try to not take it too seriously. I know I took my online league playing too seriously at times, but it's supposed to be fun, not stressful. If you really think something is too fishy then it may be time to just drop that league and try another.

NoOne · 03-09-2018, 04:05 PM

side note:

make a forum to pair up leagues.. have comissioners come from teh "sister" league etc...

won't work for all, but an added layer of protection against corruption, if worried. less likely to break rules for people they don't know etc.

best for similar leagues, similar play schedules etc... similar scope of effort/time required to be the comissioner. it's the same amount of work as before, but merely not in your league.

rules and such ahead of time are exclusive from this.. speaking only of enforcement of those decisions that were made previously not a "full commisioner" set of responsibilities, just problems between players or argument of rules etc... situations where an impartial 3rd party would have great value.

Marsupilami · 03-11-2018, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltwa

I asked this question 2 or 3 editions ago and was told that cheating was possible but edition 16 or so ended that possibility.

I have been in many online leagues since it started and in the early days I recall instances where commissioners were caught cheating. that seemed to go away a few years ago.

I am always in at least 5 online leagues. rarely do I suspect cheating going on but in 1 league I am in I notice a very successful team has drafted a number of players in rds 6-16 (a 30 rd draft) who have 3 or less potential stars when drafted and turn into 5 star players. now I know this happens in ootp but it is rare. when I see multiple instances on the same team I try to figure if there is something in original ratings that would lead anyone to see a potential superstar. I can't find anything in ratings that leads a mediocre draftee to a potential superstar.

again I know the game is structured to turn mediocre draftees into future stars but it is rare and when I see it happens regularly on a team it makes me wonder. any thoughts?

2 scenarios.

A:the team you mentioned is being played by a "normal" GM. one just like you without any special access and who hasnt a real life connection to anyone with commishaccess.
if thats the case, then i would go with he got lucky .

B:the team you mentioned is being played by the commish or someone else who has commish access (deputy commish/emergency simmer) or has a real life connection to someone with commish access.
if THAT is the case, run for the hills.

A normal GM has no way of cheating (anymore) that i know of. in the past you could use quickstart and sim your leaguefile. while it didnt have eny effects on the actual league file, you could probably get an idea of which players/prospects are likely to bust and which are likely turn into superstars. but that got fixed.

03-02-2018, 02:07 PM	#1
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	is playing ahead (cheating) possible in online I asked this question 2 or 3 editions ago and was told that cheating was possible but edition 16 or so ended that possibility. I have been in many online leagues since it started and in the early days I recall instances where commissioners were caught cheating. that seemed to go away a few years ago. I am always in at least 5 online leagues. rarely do I suspect cheating going on but in 1 league I am in I notice a very successful team has drafted a number of players in rds 6-16 (a 30 rd draft) who have 3 or less potential stars when drafted and turn into 5 star players. now I know this happens in ootp but it is rare. when I see multiple instances on the same team I try to figure if there is something in original ratings that would lead anyone to see a potential superstar. I can't find anything in ratings that leads a mediocre draftee to a potential superstar. again I know the game is structured to turn mediocre draftees into future stars but it is rare and when I see it happens regularly on a team it makes me wonder. any thoughts?

03-02-2018, 04:02 PM	#2
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	until the players deviate too much... development will be completely exclusive of each other at the split. oh, can you not export players anymore? that would prevent it... there may be some roundabout way to do it... make a 2nd league with exact same rules and such as far as what is causal in nature -- e.g. "year" won't matter much. maybe even name everyone the same and simply rip the .dat files and replace, in another league. there are also programs that can compare two binary files and show the differences.. .with a lil hex-dec and assembly knoweldge you may be able to inject specific differences into the other file etc etc.. ther's likely a way, although maybe not easy. if you can export the players, you can import tham into that league re-using existing playerID's... you may need to mass create 100 or 1000+ in order to have enough playerID's in existence. then you can do as you would and simulate ahead. you ccould figure out % of this or that likelyhood, and those %'s wouldhold up fairly well in a short term application. then, you'd have to rinse-repeat player import every so often. a month? a season? season probably ~okay... and just what can you gain that would be worth the ROI? rhetorical in nature... quite possibly something if you dig deep enough. i'd think about what you could do first, then decide whether to try if you see value. Last edited by NoOne; 03-02-2018 at 04:05 PM.

03-02-2018, 05:05 PM	#4
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	it's really minimal.. liek i said what could you gain? i'm not putting a whole lot of thoght into it... you couldn't gain much from draft unless a majority of team owners are AI-run, as one example. i wouldn't worry too much about it.. if you have the better team, tere's nothing they can do... definiteyl not anyhting to do with what happens in a game. as i think, a season is way too long, the ai will devaite in behaviour too much from a human on most things... maybe 1 week at a time it's tell you somethign aobut % of this or that occuring and you could plan for it.. but this is really small potatoes. 100% impossible to help you manage a game or which player to start... that would be a knee-jerk reaciton to small sample results and end in certain failure. if you saw a guy get hit by TCR that would not happen either.. so development is off the table as far as help.. .but if you ran it 1000 times maybe you could determine if one guy is morelikely to develope than the next.. this type of stuff is what could be gleaned. i meant that as more theoretical... and if you can't export players anymore, not many will have the knowledge to do it... i'm not sure if i could or not (not an expert though). i'd like to have faith in my ability, though pretyy sure another thread said you cannot export the players anymore (possibly a past post be me illustrating the potential as the cause, lol, not that it would matter if not.) Last edited by NoOne; 03-02-2018 at 05:08 PM.

03-02-2018, 04:54 PM	#3
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	your knowledge of computers far exceeds mine. but I think what you are saying is that it is possible to gain an unfair advantage. as much time as I put into game that really bothers me and may lead me to give up online play.

03-03-2018, 06:06 AM	#5
hluraven Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London, England Posts: 357	A commissioner can play ahead at any time, for as long as they want into the future. However, the advantage in doing so would be minimal. Player development would not turn out the same way each time, and any trends that certain players would be more likely to develop well than others can likely be worked out from personality and in-game information anyway. If a commissioner was going to cheat in this way, they also have access to the 100% accurate potentials via the editor tab, which would be a substantially quicker way to do the same thing. Playing ahead multiple times to see which players do best would take hours (or days) to do something that could be done in seconds. Short answer, it's possible but if you suspect cheating there are easier ways to do it, and you should probably find a new league, as once that trust is gone, it doesn't come back.

03-03-2018, 08:16 AM	#6
Winnipeg59 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,020	Agree with last line above. If you suspect a Commissioner (or anyone else that may have the Commissioner p/w) is cheating, then best to move on. There are plenty of good leagues with outstanding Commissioners that will provide a far better experience.

03-03-2018, 11:16 AM	#7
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	is it possible for gms - not necessarily a commissioner to change ratings?

03-03-2018, 09:42 PM	#8
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	no. it would be incredibly obvious to other players too. scouting reports would give it away. have a 2nd person create the comissioner password, then you have 2 people responsible and that will help keep them in check?

03-09-2018, 02:33 AM	#9
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,523	The "quickstarting" exploit has been patched, so we won't have to worry about this sort of thing in the future. And turning scouting off avoids the problem anyway.

03-09-2018, 04:05 PM	#11
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	side note: make a forum to pair up leagues.. have comissioners come from teh "sister" league etc... won't work for all, but an added layer of protection against corruption, if worried. less likely to break rules for people they don't know etc. best for similar leagues, similar play schedules etc... similar scope of effort/time required to be the comissioner. it's the same amount of work as before, but merely not in your league. rules and such ahead of time are exclusive from this.. speaking only of enforcement of those decisions that were made previously not a "full commisioner" set of responsibilities, just problems between players or argument of rules etc... situations where an impartial 3rd party would have great value.