Does height effect defensive ability?

[TuckerDuckson]

Simple question as always. Is a 6'9" first baseman defensively better than a 6'2" first baseman? Is a 6'5" shortstop less effective than a 6'0" shortstop? Is a 5'10" catcher better than a 6'4" catcher?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by TuckerDuckson

Simple question as always. Is a 6'9" first baseman defensively better than a 6'2" first baseman? Is a 6'5" shortstop less effective than a 6'0" shortstop? Is a 5'10" catcher better than a 6'4" catcher?

No way to tell just like real life. Actual talent rules.

[TGH-Adfabre]

I am pretty sure height is a factor at 1B. I have not read anywhere that it is a factor at other positions.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by TGH-Adfabre

I am pretty sure height is a factor at 1B. I have not read anywhere that it is a factor at other positions.

Height will not help if talent like footwork and fielding are less developed.

[Number4]

You can be good if small or bad if tall, however the absolutely valid question is whether when everything else is equal height makes a difference.

Example: I have 2 righty throwing veterans, fielding went down a cliff with both of them but I want to keep the bats in the lineup. Therefore I want to move them to 1B and DH. Both have equally bad infield fielding ratings, one however is significantly taller, however the smaller one has a bit of experience at 1B already.

So should I move the smaller one to 1B, as he has already some experience and that means he will reach his capability earlier? Sensible if height is ignored.

Or the taller one, who will at the beginning be worse, but with a bonus from his height better in the end? Sensible if height matters.

[BigRed75]

Originally Posted by RchW

Height will not help if talent like footwork and fielding are less developed.

This is true, speaking as the 5' 10" guy who had to teach his 6' 5" teammate how to play first base, then got shuffled into the outfield as a result.

I had all the footwork, positioning, picking ability, etc. but he had the one thing that couldn't be taught - length.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by TGH-Adfabre

I am pretty sure height is a factor at 1B. I have not read anywhere that it is a factor at other positions.

If it doesn't, it certainly should. A 6-foot-4 first baseman is much better than a 5-foot-10 first baseman when all skills are equal.

[saturn2187]

Yes, I can state that all else equal, the taller 1B will be better. No question.


You can verify that in the Editor .
You can take a 5'8" 2B/SS type and he's going to max out around 60 at 1B regardless of playing time.


Go into the editor, adjust his height, and watch his 1B rating spike.

[RchW]

The key point for realism is that the results are post facto; ie you have to play games for the difference to become obvious. You should not necessarily be able to see the difference outside the editor.

[jpeters1734]

I'm not sure about the other positions but you'll notice the 1B rating does go up or down when you change height

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by saturn2187

Yes, I can state that all else equal, the taller 1B will be better. No question.


You can verify that in the Editor .
You can take a 5'8" 2B/SS type and he's going to max out around 60 at 1B regardless of playing time.


Go into the editor, adjust his height, and watch his 1B rating spike.

Thank you. The whole "but does height REALLY matter?" thing was interesting but in OOTP terms, I do want to know if taller players make better 1B in the game.

[Questdog]

In OOTP height is a bonus, but does not guarantee that a player will be better than another.

In real life, some managers take this needing tall first basemen to absurd extremes. I remember a year or two ago the Reds needed somebody to play 1B when Joey Votto was hurt. Brian Price, who is an idiot, decided to put Jay Bruce, who is 6-3 there and put Skip Schumaker, who is 5-10, out in right, Bruce's normal haunt. The first game he did it, I told everyone in the room how stupid it was. Bruce has one advantage and that is on high throws. Schumaker, who in my mind, was the natural choice to try there, had been a starting second baseman and would be obviously 100 times better at everything a 1B needs to do except catching those specific throws that are just above his reach, but still within Bruce's. How many throws a year will hit that exact 5 inch window? Who knows, but I am pretty certain it is a lot less than the number of balls that will go through Bruce's legs that Schumaker would have stopped...... Keith Hernandez, the best 1B of the 70's and 80's, was not tall......

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Questdog

In OOTP height is a bonus, but does not guarantee that a player will be better than another.

In real life, some managers take this needing tall first basemen to absurd extremes. I remember a year or two ago the Reds needed somebody to play 1B when Joey Votto was hurt. Brian Price, who is an idiot, decided to put Jay Bruce, who is 6-3 there and put Skip Schumaker, who is 5-10, out in right, Bruce's normal haunt. The first game he did it, I told everyone in the room how stupid it was. Bruce has one advantage and that is on high throws. Schumaker, who in my mind, was the natural choice to try there, had been a starting second baseman and would be obviously 100 times better at everything a 1B needs to do except catching those specific throws that are just above his reach, but still within Bruce's. How many throws a year will hit that exact 5 inch window? Who knows, but I am pretty certain it is a lot less than the number of balls that will go through Bruce's legs that Schumaker would have stopped...... Keith Hernandez, the best 1B of the 70's and 80's, was not tall......

In that situation it was dumb, but height is more of an advantage than just high throws. Also short throws that the 1B needs to stretch for. I do agree with you that there's much more to 1B than standing on base, catching balls

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

In that situation it was dumb, but height is more of an advantage than just high throws. Also short throws that the 1B needs to stretch for. I do agree with you that there's much more to 1B than standing on base, catching balls

That is true on wide throws, but the shorter man has an advantage on balls in the dirt that would seem to me to be at least an equalizer.

[TuckerDuckson]

Originally Posted by Questdog

That is true on wide throws, but the shorter man has an advantage on balls in the dirt that would seem to me to be at least an equalizer.

A short throw that would be a short hop to a 5'10" guy could be a catch to a 6'3" with a longer wingspan. Advantage tall guy.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by TuckerDuckson

A short throw that would be a short hop to a 5'10" guy could be a catch to a 6'3" with a longer wingspan. Advantage tall guy.

I do not buy that....the shorter guy would be more agile on average and thus better on all low throws in general.

Don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing that height is a good thing in a first baseman, just that, like left-handed shortstops, when it becomes dogma, it is not so useful of an idea.....

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Questdog

I do not buy that....the shorter guy would be more agile on average and thus better on all low throws in general.

Don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing that height is a good thing in a first baseman, just that, like left-handed shortstops, when it becomes dogma, it is not so useful of an idea.....

Why is a shorter guy automatically more agile? That's not a fact. But it is a fact that a 6-foot-4 guy is going to have a longer reach than a 5-foot-10 guy.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Why is a shorter guy automatically more agile? That's not a fact. But it is a fact that a 6-foot-4 guy is going to have a longer reach than a 5-foot-10 guy.

Generally, not automatically.....just like men are stronger than women, but not all men are stronger than all women. My point is that each player should be judged on his own merits and not disqualified base on a rigid set of preconceived notions. Yes, taller players generally have an advantage of reach, but even that is not always the case. A 5-4 player with 9-ft arms will have a good reach.....

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I'm not sure about the other positions but you'll notice the 1B rating does go up or down when you change height

IIRC it affects pitching too, but that's a different issue to this thread.

[BigRed75]

Yes, at 5-10, I'd have to come off the bag more often than someone who's 6-3. But, unless it's a bang-bang play, I have the confidence in my footwork to get back on the bag in time. Plus, as a lefty, I have a bit more leeway, especially on balls thrown behind the bag.

Another thing to consider is catching ability. That 6-3 guy who can reach but has stone hands is going to be more of a liability than myself. It's not like balls thrown outside my wingspan would be automatic overthrows - I'm going to go off the bag and get them. Stonehands, however, can turn a routine play into an infield hit or, more likely, an E-3.

Even balls airmailed over my head - a good vertical jump, and I could make up the five inches or so by jumping higher. It's why I would work on my vertical leap. (Okay, that was mostly for basketball, but it had other benefits). And, of course, reading the situation and timing the leap.

Point being, there's a LOT more than height that goes into being a successful first baseman (left-handedness is also a big plus). But some coaches, like Bryan Price (a pitcher) don't see that. I agree with Questdog that Skip Schumaker would have been the better choice than Jay Bruce, particularly as by putting Schumaker in right in Bruce's place, you've now weakened two positions instead of one.