To DH or not to DH...

jofos · 07-28-2013, 06:00 PM

this is the question. One league has it the other doesn't but should I have a DH in both leagues? Without the DH its basically a free out every 9 batters but you have to use more pinch hitters and it makes a difference on letting a pitcher go an extra inning. What do you guys do?

slugga27 · 07-28-2013, 06:29 PM

Don't get me started...

What I will say is that I hate the DH with a passion...and this is coming from a Red Sox fan, so that should tell you it's an unbiased opinion.

Fyrestorm3 · 07-28-2013, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slugga27

Don't get me started...

What I will say is that I hate the DH with a passion...and this is coming from a Red Sox fan, so that should tell you it's an unbiased opinion.

This is exactly where I stand as well, though I come as a former Red Sox fan. Either way.

It's not worth having the debate, in my opinion. You either love it or you hate it. I hate it. Others love it. And neither side is going to be able to change the other's minds.

DCG12 · 07-28-2013, 06:35 PM

I too am a Red Sox fan but in all my leagues I make pitchers hit. It forces more PHing and more strategy with double switches and managing the bullpen over the course of several games so that you don't exhaust all your relief corps.

There are some people who think that the AI handles a DH system better though.

slugga27 · 07-28-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

This is exactly where I stand as well, though I come as a former Red Sox fan. Either way.

It's not worth having the debate, in my opinion. You either love it or you hate it. I hate it. Others love it. And neither side is going to be able to change the other's minds.

Exactly. There's two sides to the debate and neither side is wrong. In reality, the DH isn't going anywhere. It extends the careers of players that should be otherwise retired. (With the exception of David Ortiz...he can play first if needed.)

Fyrestorm3 · 07-28-2013, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slugga27

It extends the careers of players that should be otherwise retired. (With the exception of David Ortiz...he can play first if needed.)

I call him "Twinkletoes" every time he takes the field.

kq76 · 07-28-2013, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

This is exactly where I stand as well, though I come as a former Red Sox fan. Either way.

It's not worth having the debate, in my opinion. You either love it or you hate it. I hate it. Others love it. And neither side is going to be able to change the other's minds.

Sometimes people change their minds: I did. I used to be a hardcore supporter of no DH then I went to the DH side and now I find I like watching games better with no DH (I find the switches keeps my mind intrigued), but I like playing (IRL and in OOTP) with a DH better (it's simpler and more offensive).

I do like the idea that the DH keeps good hitters in the game longer and I do like that it keeps terrible hitting pitchers from boring us. Plus, pitchers can still hit as a DH if they're good enough that you'd want them to. There's just something missing from the mental side of the game when you use the DH though and I know people like to say the only stuff that changes is stuff that is mindless, but I disagree. It leads to so much more speculation as to, "oh, they really should have done this or that". I also like that with so many more position players getting used it seems like that much more of a team effort.

Bluenoser · 07-28-2013, 07:53 PM

I like playing with no DH if for no other reason than it makes me have to work harder as a manager. If you don't test your skills, they don't improve I like to say.

CatKnight · 07-28-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

Sometimes people change their minds: I did. I used to be a hardcore supporter of no DH then I went to the DH side and now I find I like watching games better with no DH (I find the switches keeps my mind intrigued), but I like playing (IRL and in OOTP) with a DH better (it's simpler and more offensive).

I do like the idea that the DH keeps good hitters in the game longer and I do like that it keeps terrible hitting pitchers from boring us. Plus, pitchers can still hit as a DH if they're good enough that you'd want them to. There's just something missing from the mental side of the game when you use the DH though and I know people like to say the only stuff that changes is stuff that is mindless, but I disagree. It leads to so much more speculation as to, "oh, they really should have done this or that". I also like that with so many more position players getting used it seems like that much more of a team effort.

This is my feeling. When playing games I sometimes appreciate the simplicity of a DH, but when I want a mental challenge, or I'm watching a game and trying to get in the manager's head, no DH offers up a number of strategic options and alternatives.

Mancandy · 07-28-2013, 07:59 PM

Say what you want, but at the end of the day, the DH provides better baseball. Seeing pitchers try to hit isn't good for anybody, and no DH makes a mockery of the game in later innings with all the pinch hitting and switching around.

Not to mention, not having a DH takes all the thinking out of the game. Everybody sitting at home knows what the manager is going to do and when he's going to do it long before it happens. The DH forces managers to make tough decisions with their pitchers and their bench.

Jeff Reed · 07-28-2013, 08:26 PM

A mockery? You may not like it, but that is a bit silly.

Growing up a fan of a NL team, I cannot but feel the DH is a foreign rule. I dislike it, and I hate when I have to use one for interleague/postseason play.

I like a game where everyone must field and hit. I have no interest in players extending their careers because they are half a player.

Fyrestorm3 · 07-28-2013, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancandy

Not to mention, not having a DH takes all the thinking out of the game. Everybody sitting at home knows what the manager is going to do and when he's going to do it long before it happens. The DH forces managers to make tough decisions with their pitchers and their bench.

It's fine if you like the DH, but this is an absurd argument. Having no DH creates strategy, not removes it. I fail to see how you can argue otherwise.

Padreman · 07-28-2013, 08:39 PM

I like pinch hitters, that has been a specialty back in the day players were sign simply for their ability to up cold and get a hit. That Amercian League lacks that simply because of the DH. Yes some may argue that it extends careers true. But the NL DOES use more strategy then the AL. One argument a guy use on me who was a favor ofthe DH asked me this "on a big game on a big moments who rather have a 40 year old had been or a pitcher batting?" He said "ill take the 40 year old has been anyway over a pitcher if I need my team to score some runs"

mpejkrm · 07-28-2013, 08:47 PM

Fyre is right. Let's not make this a huge "DH or no DH" argument. I'm an AL fan and I like the DH, but I know NL fans who like it as well. And I don't like it just because my team uses it. Do whatever YOU think is best.

CatKnight · 07-28-2013, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancandy

Not to mention, not having a DH takes all the thinking out of the game. Everybody sitting at home knows what the manager is going to do and when he's going to do it long before it happens. The DH forces managers to make tough decisions with their pitchers and their bench.

What??

Please explain that one. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Bluenoser · 07-28-2013, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancandy

Say what you want, but at the end of the day, the DH provides better baseball. Seeing pitchers try to hit isn't good for anybody, and no DH makes a mockery of the game in later innings with all the pinch hitting and switching around.

Not to mention, not having a DH takes all the thinking out of the game. Everybody sitting at home knows what the manager is going to do and when he's going to do it long before it happens. The DH forces managers to make tough decisions with their pitchers and their bench.

What decisions does a manager make with his pitchers when it comes to the DH? None. His job is much easier because he can manage his bullpen and pitchers much easier.

To each his own, but strategy does not make a mockery of the game. It adds to it if anything.

slugga27 · 07-28-2013, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancandy

Say what you want, but at the end of the day, the DH provides better baseball. Seeing pitchers try to hit isn't good for anybody, and no DH makes a mockery of the game in later innings with all the pinch hitting and switching around.

Not to mention, not having a DH takes all the thinking out of the game. Everybody sitting at home knows what the manager is going to do and when he's going to do it long before it happens. The DH forces managers to make tough decisions with their pitchers and their bench.

You contradict yourself. How does not having a DH take all the thinking out of the game? Please...enlighten us. Your best bet is to just say that you made a typo and meant HAVING a DH takes all the thinking out of the game.

I mean, Here's a recent example of how wrong you are by saying that everyone knows what's going to happen before it happens in a game without the DH...

Last night, Cubs-Giants, Bumgarner is at 100+ pitches through seven innings in a scoreless game. He is due up the next inning. Do you pinch hit or do you let him go another inning?

Here's what I was thinking (and before you question my baseball knowledge, you should know that I work in baseball...don't make me send you my resume):

If I was Bruce Bochy, the manager of the Giants, I would have absolutely pinch hit for Bumgarner because his pitch count was high and the Giants had an opportunity to scratch across a run.

Now...let's go to what actually happened:

Bochy let Bumgarner hit for himself and he left after eight innings, with a no-decision.

Don't give me the "well, that's you and you don't speak for the masses." I can bet you that if we polled the room (and got honest responses, ie. people who don't have an issue with admitting that they were wrong), the likely result would be a split-decision.

So, again, enlighten us as to how there's more strategy with the DH. In my professional opinion, baseball is baseball. The strategy is really the same. Baseball is baseball. However, I believe that if you're going to set foot on the field--or pitcher's mound--you can hit for yourself.

Déjà Bru · 07-28-2013, 09:11 PM

Purists hate the DH and I respect that. However, as much as I tried to get away from it, I adopt it anyway in all my leagues now, even ones that start in 1901. My reasons, which are purely unscientific:

I like being able to keep the 36-year-old who has been with me for 12 years, can still swing the bat, but cannot take the field anymore. It's a bit unnerving to see the guy suddenly with red fielding numbers, then no ratings at all, but still have a green contact bar. It's nice to have a slot for someone like this.
Frankly, the DH can also solve the problem of, say, having two catchers who can hit (a rarity) and both of whom wanting to start.

Sure, it's not realistic in that I choose the DH not for historical purposes or because it makes Baseball better. I choose it because it gives me flexibility.

slugga27 · 07-28-2013, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Purists hate the DH and I respect that. However, as much as I tried to get away from it, I adopt it anyway in all my leagues now, even ones that start in 1901. My reasons, which are purely unscientific:

I like being able to keep the 36-year-old who has been with me for 12 years, can still swing the bat, but cannot take the field anymore. It's a bit unnerving to see the guy suddenly with red fielding numbers, then no ratings at all, but still have a green contact bar. It's nice to have a slot for someone like this.
Frankly, the DH can also solve the problem of, say, having two catchers who can hit (a rarity) and both of whom wanting to start.

Sure, it's not realistic in that I choose the DH not for historical purposes or because it makes Baseball better. I choose it because it gives me flexibility.

And I respect that. Those reasons are valid. And, the real-life MLB has a DH to keep older players around, anyways, though good luck getting Selig to admit it.

mpejkrm · 07-28-2013, 10:18 PM

Because we're offering opinion, I'll say this:

Being able to effectively hit a baseball takes a lot of specialized training, coaching, conditioning, practice, and skill to do.

Being able to effectively throw a 94MPH two-seamer followed up by a 73MPH nasty off-speed pitch takes a lot of specialized training, coaching, conditioning, practice, and skill to do.

Expecting pitchers to do both is asinine, in my opinion. That is why I like the DH.

07-28-2013, 06:00 PM	#1
jofos Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 106	To DH or not to DH... this is the question. One league has it the other doesn't but should I have a DH in both leagues? Without the DH its basically a free out every 9 batters but you have to use more pinch hitters and it makes a difference on letting a pitcher go an extra inning. What do you guys do?

07-28-2013, 06:35 PM	#4
DCG12 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Traveling through another dimension-not one of only sight and sound,but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundries are those of imagination. Posts: 1,161	I too am a Red Sox fan but in all my leagues I make pitchers hit. It forces more PHing and more strategy with double switches and managing the bullpen over the course of several games so that you don't exhaust all your relief corps. There are some people who think that the AI handles a DH system better though. Last edited by DCG12; 07-28-2013 at 06:44 PM.

07-28-2013, 09:11 PM	#18
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,741	Purists hate the DH and I respect that. However, as much as I tried to get away from it, I adopt it anyway in all my leagues now, even ones that start in 1901. My reasons, which are purely unscientific: I like being able to keep the 36-year-old who has been with me for 12 years, can still swing the bat, but cannot take the field anymore. It's a bit unnerving to see the guy suddenly with red fielding numbers, then no ratings at all, but still have a green contact bar. It's nice to have a slot for someone like this. Frankly, the DH can also solve the problem of, say, having two catchers who can hit (a rarity) and both of whom wanting to start. Sure, it's not realistic in that I choose the DH not for historical purposes or because it makes Baseball better. I choose it because it gives me flexibility. __________________ - Bru

07-28-2013, 06:29 PM	#2
slugga27 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,272	Don't get me started... What I will say is that I hate the DH with a passion...and this is coming from a Red Sox fan, so that should tell you it's an unbiased opinion.

07-28-2013, 07:53 PM	#8
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,521	I like playing with no DH if for no other reason than it makes me have to work harder as a manager. If you don't test your skills, they don't improve I like to say.

07-28-2013, 07:59 PM	#10
Mancandy Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 154 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	Say what you want, but at the end of the day, the DH provides better baseball. Seeing pitchers try to hit isn't good for anybody, and no DH makes a mockery of the game in later innings with all the pinch hitting and switching around. Not to mention, not having a DH takes all the thinking out of the game. Everybody sitting at home knows what the manager is going to do and when he's going to do it long before it happens. The DH forces managers to make tough decisions with their pitchers and their bench.

07-28-2013, 08:26 PM	#11
Jeff Reed Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 29	A mockery? You may not like it, but that is a bit silly. Growing up a fan of a NL team, I cannot but feel the DH is a foreign rule. I dislike it, and I hate when I have to use one for interleague/postseason play. I like a game where everyone must field and hit. I have no interest in players extending their careers because they are half a player.

07-28-2013, 08:39 PM	#13
Padreman Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2013 Location: Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico (formally San Diego, CA.) Posts: 4,131	I like pinch hitters, that has been a specialty back in the day players were sign simply for their ability to up cold and get a hit. That Amercian League lacks that simply because of the DH. Yes some may argue that it extends careers true. But the NL DOES use more strategy then the AL. One argument a guy use on me who was a favor ofthe DH asked me this "on a big game on a big moments who rather have a 40 year old had been or a pitcher batting?" He said "ill take the 40 year old has been anyway over a pitcher if I need my team to score some runs"

07-28-2013, 08:47 PM	#14
mpejkrm All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 951	Fyre is right. Let's not make this a huge "DH or no DH" argument. I'm an AL fan and I like the DH, but I know NL fans who like it as well. And I don't like it just because my team uses it. Do whatever YOU think is best.

07-28-2013, 10:18 PM	#20
mpejkrm All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 951	Because we're offering opinion, I'll say this: Being able to effectively hit a baseball takes a lot of specialized training, coaching, conditioning, practice, and skill to do. Being able to effectively throw a 94MPH two-seamer followed up by a 73MPH nasty off-speed pitch takes a lot of specialized training, coaching, conditioning, practice, and skill to do. Expecting pitchers to do both is asinine, in my opinion. That is why I like the DH.