Running A League Idea By You Guys

SebP · 10-28-2009, 05:06 PM

Alright, so I want to run an idea by you guys, let me know if this is a good idea and something that is worth attempting (I am posting it here instead of in the league forum, because I am not looking for people to join yet, I am merely trying to see if this is feasible or not).

The premise of the league is a promotion/relegation league that takes place in the United States. I know that the EAB/WBH does this, and they run great leagues, but I was hoping to get something started that was similar. The top league is a league that encompasses the whole country taking teams from everywhere (equivalent to the majors I guess). Then the bottom two leagues (where teams will be promoted from and demoted to) are leagues that runs out of one state. For example one could be the Garden State League (NJ) or the Florida League. Their goal is to finish in the top 2 or 4 (still deciding on how many promotions/relegations to do - I am leaning to 4 to keep it fresh) to get into the all encompassing American League. There will be no "playoffs" as the winners from each league will be crowned champs, but I was thinking about doing a league wide playoff. I was planning on starting out with 3 8-team leagues (One Major Two Minor) and go from there, with placement being based on first come first serve. As for the nuts and bolts, this is obviously going to be a fictional league. I was hoping to do it with just potential ratings being seen and scouts on. Inaugural Draft to fill up the minors, and a salary cap of $90,000,000, with budgets turned off.

What do you think, is this something feasible? If it is feasible, is it something that people will want to join? Now all the hosting/forum stuff will be handled by me, so that isn't going to be a problem.

What may be an issue is that I have never ran an online league before, so I would be looking for an experienced co-commish to help guide me/the league along the way.

So I ask you, the great OOTP commishes, is this something worth exploring?

f.montoya · 10-29-2009, 08:13 AM

I like the idea of no playoff and the winners of each league being crowned champs. I think this puts more emphasis on winning regular season games and not just securing a playoff spot. In the real world, playoffs are revenue generators. In OOTP, you can afford to forgo the playoffs and go straight to a Championship round because real money isn't involved.

While I have absolutely no time to join the league, it is very interesting and I definitely would like to check in and browse to see how dominate teams become and how the promotions and relegations are going. Will you keep a record of them on your site?

SebP · 10-29-2009, 09:50 AM

The fact that you didn't call me an idiot right off the bat shows that this idea has legs, lol. So what advice would you give to a commish just starting out?

f.montoya · 10-29-2009, 09:57 AM

Joining a league and getting to know the flow of simming, transactions and other events that online leagues deal with is the first thing that comes to mind. Other than that, experiment thoroughly in OOTP X with a dummy league before starting a real league. You'll likely catch things that can be addressed before you launch your new online league.

SebP · 10-29-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f.montoya

Joining a league and getting to know the flow of simming, transactions and other events that online leagues deal with is the first thing that comes to mind. Other than that, experiment thoroughly in OOTP X with a dummy league before starting a real league. You'll likely catch things that can be addressed before you launch your new online league.

Thanks for the tips. I have been in a well-run league for a while now (tMBU), and I think I am ready in terms of flow. As for running a dummy league, that is a great idea!

kq76 · 10-29-2009, 11:01 AM

I'm fascinated by the idea of promotion/relegation leagues so the more the better I say as I think more people trying them out can only help spur Markus into providing more support for them.

I like the idea of the regular season champ is the champ period, but I do also like playoffs for that climax aspect of it. What I originally wanted to do with the KBL was celebrate the regular season champ just as much as the regular season champ (kind of how the NHL, I think, used to try to do with the President's Trophy), but somehow it never happened. It's tough to beat the thrill of a playoff run. So why deny yourself of it, I guess. Still, there's something pure about crowning the regular season first place finisher the champ.

You mention no playoffs, but then say you want a league wide playoff though. I don't understand what you mean by that.

As for the co-commish thing, if you're talking alternating simming co-commishes, I'm not big on it at all. Yeah, it may sound like a great idea (it'd certainly be nice not to have to spend so much time running a league), but in the end I just don't think it works well. You know how they say the left hand often doesn't know what the right hand is doing in government? Well, that's how I see "co-commishes". Maybe it works for some, but I haven't witnessed it first-hand myself yet. Try imagining having two Presidents of the United States with equal power and responsibilities. I just don't see it working.

What I think does work well is having a commish and a sort of assistant who does a lot of the non-sim stuff. I'm the latter in the CBL and I think it works fairly well. Chris runs all the sims so he always knows what's going on with everything and I run around trying to do as much of everything else as I can to make it as easy as possible on him. For that to work, however, I think you really need the assistant to be someone who just goes for it while you also probably need a commish who is willing to give the assistant the freedom to do a lot of stuff. To continue with the analogies, I seem to recall the Romans doing something like this and it working well where one head had all the duties at home and the other had all the duties away at war. While it may work for us, though, I'm sure it wouldn't work for some, if not most.

Any other advice? Yeah, as long as you have a passion for it, go for it!

SebP · 10-29-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

I'm fascinated by the idea of promotion/relegation leagues so the more the better I say as I think more people trying them out can only help spur Markus into providing more support for them.

I like the idea of the regular season champ is the champ period, but I do also like playoffs for that climax aspect of it. What I originally wanted to do with the KBL was celebrate the regular season champ just as much as the regular season champ (kind of how the NHL, I think, used to try to do with the President's Trophy), but somehow it never happened. It's tough to beat the thrill of a playoff run. So why deny yourself of it, I guess. Still, there's something pure about crowning the regular season first place finisher the champ.

You mention no playoffs, but then say you want a league wide playoff though. I don't understand what you mean by that.

As for the co-commish thing, if you're talking alternating simming co-commishes, I'm not big on it at all. Yeah, it may sound like a great idea (it'd certainly be nice not to have to spend so much time running a league), but in the end I just don't think it works well. You know how they say the left hand often doesn't know what the right hand is doing in government? Well, that's how I see "co-commishes". Maybe it works for some, but I haven't witnessed it first-hand myself yet. Try imagining having two Presidents of the United States with equal power and responsibilities. I just don't see it working.

What I think does work well is having a commish and a sort of assistant who does a lot of the non-sim stuff. I'm the latter in the CBL and I think it works fairly well. Chris runs all the sims so he always knows what's going on with everything and I run around trying to do as much of everything else as I can to make it as easy as possible on him. For that to work, however, I think you really need the assistant to be someone who just goes for it while you also probably need a commish who is willing to give the assistant the freedom to do a lot of stuff. To continue with the analogies, I seem to recall the Romans doing something like this and it working well where one head had all the duties at home and the other had all the duties away at war. While it may work for us, though, I'm sure it wouldn't work for some, if not most.

Any other advice? Yeah, as long as you have a passion for it, go for it!

In terms of grand playoffs, I was talking about how Echelons of Baseball does it, they have a big playoff bracket. I think they use a separate game file to get it done. I am not sure.

As far as the co-commish, I was planning on doing the simming and having someone "teach my the ropes" kind of helping me with other stuff, you know what I mean? I guess how you described it is an assistant.

Thanks for all of the great tips guys, how many years do you think I should run the sim for to get a good feel for the league? 10-20 years?

SebP · 10-29-2009, 11:57 AM

One final question. Is it too ambitious for me to start with a promotion relegation league? Should the first league I run be just a standard one?

Corsairs · 10-29-2009, 12:55 PM

I wouldn't say that it's too ambitious to start with a promotion/relegation concept. What I would suggest is to keep things small to start with. We all want to be a part of massive, sprawling leagues, but I think that can be a trap for first-time commissioners who don't yet know what lies ahead of them work and responsibility-wise.

My suggestion would be to roll with your concept but keep the inital number of teams in each league to a small, manageable number. Spend at least a few months of real world time getting a feel for your new role and everything it entails. At the end of that time, assess your situation. Are you enjoying yourself? Do you feel you can take on more? If so, embark on a modest expansion and repeat the process. If at any time you feel like you might be losing enthusiasm due to the workload, it's time to halt your expansion efforts. Remember, at the end of the day this needs to be fun for you. If you're not enjoying yourself, your owners won't be enjoying themselves either.

fhomess · 10-29-2009, 01:23 PM

My first advice would be to figure out how much time you want to commit to the league on a nightly basis. Running a league is a LOT more work than being a GM in one. Figure out a sim schedule you can stick to (including the offseason). Make sure that schedule is well communicated with the league, and any alterations to the schedule are made known as soon as possible.

Next, consider the complexity of the league you want to undertake. Each level of complexity adds time that you have to commit to it. It also adds time to what each GM has to commit. I'm talking about things like finances, scouts/coaches, etc. Obviously, those settings will have a big impact on who you are able to recruit as GM's to the league.

Finally, make sure all the rules are clearly spelled out. If you're promoting the top two teams in the lower leagues, what's the tiebreaker methodology? If you promote two from each lower league, which 4 get demoted? The bottom 4, or the bottom two that can go back to the lower league (provided you want to keep geographical alignment)? Or do you just not care which lower league they go back into. One method would give you unequal teams in the FL/NJ leagues, while the other would potentially demote teams that finished ahead of teams that stay. If you decide not to care about alignment, then how do you determine which lower league they go into?

SebP · 10-29-2009, 02:25 PM

Great advice Corsairs and fhomess! Thanks for adding some info. Corsairs, I was planning on having 8 teams in each league, starting out...making 24. Would you recommend 4 in each league? My only worry there is that teams will continue playing each other over and over and that could get repetitive.

Everyone, thank you so much for adding all your tips! I am off to the drawing board to try and flesh this out, I will let you know what I come up with when I start running it offline. Again thanks so much, it is all much appreciated!

kq76 · 10-29-2009, 02:36 PM

4 is a little too small IMO. I'd go with 6 in each league, but what I'd definitely do if I were you is drop the 3rd league, just have 2 leagues of 6 each, then consider expansion down the road.

Corsairs is too right in advising that you should start off small and then maybe grow. Keep everything, including rules, as simple and manageable as possible until you're sure you can take on more. I'm afraid a lot of people think they can handle 30 some teams no problem and then one day they just wake up and realize it's way too much and the members never hear from the commish again. Enjoy it, don't make it a second job.

SebP · 10-29-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

4 is a little too small IMO. I'd go with 6 in each league, but what I'd definitely do if I were you is drop the 3rd league, just have 2 leagues of 6 each, then consider expansion down the road.

Corsairs is too right in advising that you should start off small and then maybe grow. Keep everything, including rules, as simple and manageable as possible until you're sure you can take on more. I'm afraid a lot of people think they can handle 30 some teams no problem and then one day they just wake up and realize it's way too much and the members never hear from the commish again. Enjoy it, don't make it a second job.

Yeah 12 teams seems like a good starting point. Thanks kq...thanks everyone else!

10-28-2009, 05:06 PM	#1
SebP Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 23	Running A League Idea By You Guys Alright, so I want to run an idea by you guys, let me know if this is a good idea and something that is worth attempting (I am posting it here instead of in the league forum, because I am not looking for people to join yet, I am merely trying to see if this is feasible or not). The premise of the league is a promotion/relegation league that takes place in the United States. I know that the EAB/WBH does this, and they run great leagues, but I was hoping to get something started that was similar. The top league is a league that encompasses the whole country taking teams from everywhere (equivalent to the majors I guess). Then the bottom two leagues (where teams will be promoted from and demoted to) are leagues that runs out of one state. For example one could be the Garden State League (NJ) or the Florida League. Their goal is to finish in the top 2 or 4 (still deciding on how many promotions/relegations to do - I am leaning to 4 to keep it fresh) to get into the all encompassing American League. There will be no "playoffs" as the winners from each league will be crowned champs, but I was thinking about doing a league wide playoff. I was planning on starting out with 3 8-team leagues (One Major Two Minor) and go from there, with placement being based on first come first serve. As for the nuts and bolts, this is obviously going to be a fictional league. I was hoping to do it with just potential ratings being seen and scouts on. Inaugural Draft to fill up the minors, and a salary cap of $90,000,000, with budgets turned off. What do you think, is this something feasible? If it is feasible, is it something that people will want to join? Now all the hosting/forum stuff will be handled by me, so that isn't going to be a problem. What may be an issue is that I have never ran an online league before, so I would be looking for an experienced co-commish to help guide me/the league along the way. So I ask you, the great OOTP commishes, is this something worth exploring?

10-29-2009, 08:13 AM	#2
f.montoya Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,077	I like the idea of no playoff and the winners of each league being crowned champs. I think this puts more emphasis on winning regular season games and not just securing a playoff spot. In the real world, playoffs are revenue generators. In OOTP, you can afford to forgo the playoffs and go straight to a Championship round because real money isn't involved. While I have absolutely no time to join the league, it is very interesting and I definitely would like to check in and browse to see how dominate teams become and how the promotions and relegations are going. Will you keep a record of them on your site? __________________ Fidel Montoya Asahi2 Baseball League ex-Commissioner(Historical League Since 2004) Ex-Web Host Current Mod Maker??

10-29-2009, 09:57 AM	#4
f.montoya Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,077	Joining a league and getting to know the flow of simming, transactions and other events that online leagues deal with is the first thing that comes to mind. Other than that, experiment thoroughly in OOTP X with a dummy league before starting a real league. You'll likely catch things that can be addressed before you launch your new online league. __________________ Fidel Montoya Asahi2 Baseball League ex-Commissioner(Historical League Since 2004) Ex-Web Host Current Mod Maker??

10-29-2009, 11:01 AM	#6
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,022	I'm fascinated by the idea of promotion/relegation leagues so the more the better I say as I think more people trying them out can only help spur Markus into providing more support for them. I like the idea of the regular season champ is the champ period, but I do also like playoffs for that climax aspect of it. What I originally wanted to do with the KBL was celebrate the regular season champ just as much as the regular season champ (kind of how the NHL, I think, used to try to do with the President's Trophy), but somehow it never happened. It's tough to beat the thrill of a playoff run. So why deny yourself of it, I guess. Still, there's something pure about crowning the regular season first place finisher the champ. You mention no playoffs, but then say you want a league wide playoff though. I don't understand what you mean by that. As for the co-commish thing, if you're talking alternating simming co-commishes, I'm not big on it at all. Yeah, it may sound like a great idea (it'd certainly be nice not to have to spend so much time running a league), but in the end I just don't think it works well. You know how they say the left hand often doesn't know what the right hand is doing in government? Well, that's how I see "co-commishes". Maybe it works for some, but I haven't witnessed it first-hand myself yet. Try imagining having two Presidents of the United States with equal power and responsibilities. I just don't see it working. What I think does work well is having a commish and a sort of assistant who does a lot of the non-sim stuff. I'm the latter in the CBL and I think it works fairly well. Chris runs all the sims so he always knows what's going on with everything and I run around trying to do as much of everything else as I can to make it as easy as possible on him. For that to work, however, I think you really need the assistant to be someone who just goes for it while you also probably need a commish who is willing to give the assistant the freedom to do a lot of stuff. To continue with the analogies, I seem to recall the Romans doing something like this and it working well where one head had all the duties at home and the other had all the duties away at war. While it may work for us, though, I'm sure it wouldn't work for some, if not most. Any other advice? Yeah, as long as you have a passion for it, go for it! __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080) Last edited by kq76; 10-29-2009 at 11:04 AM.

10-29-2009, 12:55 PM	#9
Corsairs Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,360	I wouldn't say that it's too ambitious to start with a promotion/relegation concept. What I would suggest is to keep things small to start with. We all want to be a part of massive, sprawling leagues, but I think that can be a trap for first-time commissioners who don't yet know what lies ahead of them work and responsibility-wise. My suggestion would be to roll with your concept but keep the inital number of teams in each league to a small, manageable number. Spend at least a few months of real world time getting a feel for your new role and everything it entails. At the end of that time, assess your situation. Are you enjoying yourself? Do you feel you can take on more? If so, embark on a modest expansion and repeat the process. If at any time you feel like you might be losing enthusiasm due to the workload, it's time to halt your expansion efforts. Remember, at the end of the day this needs to be fun for you. If you're not enjoying yourself, your owners won't be enjoying themselves either. __________________ Founder of the Planetary Extreme Baseball Alliance (PEBA) Premiere OOTP fictional league where creativity counts and imagination is your only limitation Check for openings - contact us today! Join the PEBA

10-29-2009, 09:50 AM	#3
SebP Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 23	The fact that you didn't call me an idiot right off the bat shows that this idea has legs, lol. So what advice would you give to a commish just starting out?

10-29-2009, 11:57 AM	#8
SebP Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 23	One final question. Is it too ambitious for me to start with a promotion relegation league? Should the first league I run be just a standard one?

10-29-2009, 01:23 PM	#10
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,693	My first advice would be to figure out how much time you want to commit to the league on a nightly basis. Running a league is a LOT more work than being a GM in one. Figure out a sim schedule you can stick to (including the offseason). Make sure that schedule is well communicated with the league, and any alterations to the schedule are made known as soon as possible. Next, consider the complexity of the league you want to undertake. Each level of complexity adds time that you have to commit to it. It also adds time to what each GM has to commit. I'm talking about things like finances, scouts/coaches, etc. Obviously, those settings will have a big impact on who you are able to recruit as GM's to the league. Finally, make sure all the rules are clearly spelled out. If you're promoting the top two teams in the lower leagues, what's the tiebreaker methodology? If you promote two from each lower league, which 4 get demoted? The bottom 4, or the bottom two that can go back to the lower league (provided you want to keep geographical alignment)? Or do you just not care which lower league they go back into. One method would give you unequal teams in the FL/NJ leagues, while the other would potentially demote teams that finished ahead of teams that stay. If you decide not to care about alignment, then how do you determine which lower league they go into? __________________ StatsLab- PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Baseball Cards - Full list of known templates and documentation on card development.

10-29-2009, 02:25 PM	#11
SebP Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 23	Great advice Corsairs and fhomess! Thanks for adding some info. Corsairs, I was planning on having 8 teams in each league, starting out...making 24. Would you recommend 4 in each league? My only worry there is that teams will continue playing each other over and over and that could get repetitive. Everyone, thank you so much for adding all your tips! I am off to the drawing board to try and flesh this out, I will let you know what I come up with when I start running it offline. Again thanks so much, it is all much appreciated!

10-29-2009, 02:36 PM	#12
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,022	4 is a little too small IMO. I'd go with 6 in each league, but what I'd definitely do if I were you is drop the 3rd league, just have 2 leagues of 6 each, then consider expansion down the road. Corsairs is too right in advising that you should start off small and then maybe grow. Keep everything, including rules, as simple and manageable as possible until you're sure you can take on more. I'm afraid a lot of people think they can handle 30 some teams no problem and then one day they just wake up and realize it's way too much and the members never hear from the commish again. Enjoy it, don't make it a second job. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)