anyone ever see baserunner caught in rundown?

[jmknpk2]

I have been playing the game for a while now, and can not remember ever seeing a base runner caught in a rundown. For that matter, I cannot remember ever seeing a bad baserunning play.

Seen runners caught too far off the base, runners thrown out for trying to take the extra base...plenty of fielding errors giving the runner extra bases...but no baserunning blunders.

Has anyone?

[Eugene Church]

No, I don't think it is in the game. I have never seen it.

It is not in the game Text Database.

It would have to be in the Hard Code that only Markus can access.

[Sdpm100]

On a slight extension is there a PO/CS play in the game either? I've never seen them as either they are a pick-off at 1st (for example) where the runner tries to dive back or a caught stealing.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

On a slight extension is there a PO/CS play in the game either? I've never seen them as either they are a pick-off at 1st (for example) where the runner tries to dive back or a caught stealing.

This is probably a really stupid question on my part, but what exactly is the situation you're asking about, is it a pickoff and a caught stealing at the same time? Maybe you can describe the play for me.

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by kq76

This is probably a really stupid question on my part, but what exactly is the situation you're asking about, is it a pickoff and a caught stealing at the same time? Maybe you can describe the play for me.

It's no problem, I just got into scoring mode.
What I mean is where the runner breaks from 1st base before the pitcher throws home and then the pitcher throws the ball, without coming home, to the first baseman, who then throws to whoever is covering 2nd, who usually tags out the runner.

[kq76]

Ah, yes. Now I get it. Yeah, I don't think I've seen that either.

It kind of bugs me that base-running isn't really flushed out in the game much. If you're into base to base play with a homer here and there then I guess it isn't much of an issue, but if you're like me and like to force the issue with aggressive base-running then you're shooting yourself in the foot a lot. I understand a lot of the saber people aren't too high on this style of play, but I think the game is even harder on it than real life.

For example, not being able to tell your player to steal 2nd a lot, but very rarely steal 3rd. My guys get killed on stealing 3rd yet there's not much I can do about it in an online league. You either set them to steal a lot or not. If you tell them not to steal as much, they won't steal 2nd as much either which makes their stealing ability less worthwhile.

Same thing with the base-running ability. If the game doesn't have the plays in it then a player with good base-running ability isn't as good as he should be.

[phillosopherp]

Originally Posted by kq76

Ah, yes. Now I get it. Yeah, I don't think I've seen that either.

It kind of bugs me that base-running isn't really flushed out in the game much. If you're into base to base play with a homer here and there then I guess it isn't much of an issue, but if you're like me and like to force the issue with aggressive base-running then you're shooting yourself in the foot a lot. I understand a lot of the saber people aren't too high on this style of play, but I think the game is even harder on it than real life.

For example, not being able to tell your player to steal 2nd a lot, but very rarely steal 3rd. My guys get killed on stealing 3rd yet there's not much I can do about it in an online league. You either set them to steal a lot or not. If you tell them not to steal as much, they won't steal 2nd as much either which makes their stealing ability less worthwhile.

Same thing with the base-running ability. If the game doesn't have the plays in it then a player with good base-running ability isn't as good as he should be.

I totally agree with this statement. I am a guy that manages solo in this style as well, but feel extremely limited in the online leagues since I can't tell guys to limit themselves to the smart plays. At first I thought that the engine would take care of it. It doesn't do a good job of it though. The fact that guys that run a lot (steal) try to take third to much is stupid. Especially since in the modern day there are only a very select few who are ever given the green light to take third.

Of course it is something that you adjust for, and I think that there are many other things that could be of higher priority in fixing in the game first, but I would love to see this aspect fixed as well. Especially after Joe Maddon showed that there are managers that play the base-running aggressive style still in the bigs.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

It's no problem, I just got into scoring mode.
What I mean is where the runner breaks from 1st base before the pitcher throws home and then the pitcher throws the ball, without coming home, to the first baseman, who then throws to whoever is covering 2nd, who usually tags out the runner.

I have never seen this in the game.

There is no category for it in the Text Database.

It would be nice to have rundowns and this play in the PBP.

[Cryomaniac]

Any-one know of any reallife examples of someone getting out of a run-down?

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

Especially since in the modern day there are only a very select few who are ever given the green light to take third.

Really? I thought it was going the other way. Back in the 70s (Mickey Rivers, Davey Lopes, Lou Brock) I don't remember seeing many steals of third, but the Mets seem to be doing it all the time. Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran are as likely to steal third as second, and Castillo and the third baseman (Whatzisname, the guy who just won his second Gold Glove) will occaisionally. And that's under Manuel, who doesn't run as much as Randolph did.

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Any-one know of any reallife examples of someone getting out of a run-down?

I saw two Mets rookies escape rundowns within a week in September, both advancing a base. And I watch fewer than half the innings of fewer than half their games. In one case the fielder who was supposed to be covering third (the pitcher, I think) couldn't handle a bad toss by the fielder on the second base side of the rundown. In the other the shortstop tried to swipe tag the runner as he dove into second. The umpire said he missed, and the replays were inconclusive.

That week was an example of small sample size, though. I think I only saw it happen three times all year, and I only remember seeing one guy get put out in a rundown.

[phillosopherp]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Any-one know of any reallife examples of someone getting out of a run-down?

You mean other then the one in the WS where he was clearly out but called safe?

[phillosopherp]

Originally Posted by Curtis

Really? I thought it was going the other way. Back in the 70s (Mickey Rivers, Davey Lopes, Lou Brock) I don't remember seeing many steals of third, but the Mets seem to be doing it all the time. Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran are as likely to steal third as second, and Castillo and the third baseman (Whatzisname, the guy who just won his second Gold Glove) will occaisionally. And that's under Manuel, who doesn't run as much as Randolph did.

I agree that there are a couple of teams that are exceptions to the rule. The Mets, Rays, sometimes the BoSox. But teams now a days play a lot of station to station ball IMHO. I haven't seen a double steal in so long I don't think it is even a play anymore.

[SSG Troyer]

What about AJ Piersynski (sp?) this year got awarded an extra base by sticking out his arm, thus causing the fielder to "interfere" with his ability to get back to second base?

Rundowns gotta happen at least once a fortnight across MLB, though I have no stats to back that up. Just my impression...

[Sdpm100]

This is a slightly different baserunning incident, but Curtis reminded me of this, when the Mets were playing the Marlins earlier this year, the Mets third baseman whose name I'm also struggling to think of, advanced to third base from first on a groundout because no-one was covering third base on a shift.
One other steal that I remember is Juan Rivera of the Angels stealing a base on an infield pop-up against the Yankees in Anaheim. Not sure how regular either one happens to be reasonably considered for addition to the game, but just wanted to get them out there.

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

I agree that there are a couple of teams that are exceptions to the rule. The Mets, Rays, sometimes the BoSox. But teams now a days play a lot of station to station ball IMHO. I haven't seen a double steal in so long I don't think it is even a play anymore.

I'm not sure how often but the Angels played double steal too. After all that was how Teixeira got a couple of stolen bases this year, and take it from me that is almost a sign of the apocalypse.

[spark240]

Originally Posted by kq76

if you're like me and like to force the issue with aggressive base-running then you're shooting yourself in the foot a lot. I understand a lot of the saber people aren't too high on this style of play, but I think the game is even harder on it than real life.

By "real life" here, you mean modern MLB. Sabermetrics is unenthusiastic about "small ball" tactics in many (not all) game situations because of how the math works out in the modern game. If you're trying to simulate 100 years ago--or just a different world where baseball is played differently--small ball could be huge.

OOTP should certainly allow for game environments in which tactical baserunning is important, and modeled well.