Refunds? Deception?

[Hammerdog]

I recognize that I have no credibility with the community, as I have not visited the boards often, nor posted much.


Having said that, it is deceptive to market the game as having 2008 rosters when, by any measure, the game does NOT have those rosters. Missing players, players with no ratings at all, AAA teams with virtually no players. A quote from the web site: "Start a career with 2008 major league rosters including full minor leagues". Another: "Built-in 2008 Opening Day rosters." Both of these statements are patently false. This was a key marketing message for the new game, for heaven's sake!

I am not questioning the difficulty of creating such rosters. But either advertise that they have them, and deliver, or don't advertise that they have them.

I enjoyed OOTP2007, but wanted real rosters. So I ordered OOTP9 based on claims that such rosters would be included. They are not. I will be asking for a refund. After I sleep on it, I will probably hold off on the letter to my state attorney general and the Federal Trade Commission alleging a deceptive trade practice. But there has to be some disincentive to this type of marketing for future versions....

[acetonic]

Mountain, meet molehill.

[tcblcommish]

As far as opening day rosters, that goes for MLB rosters not the entire universe. Minor leagues are bonus to that. I don't use the REAL rosters at all, so I don't know if they are complete to the opening day or not.

As for Full Minor Leagues... all of the teams are there, are they not? Teams I mean, not players. You can have a blast calling the Federal Trade Commission for a deceptive trade practice if you'd like... just have it recorded so we can all have a good laugh.

As far as your money back, call elicence and get a refund.

[Poweshow]

LMAO. To the OP, name me ONE game where rosters have been perfect. I dont care the sport, just name me one game where everything was flawless.

[treedom]

*looks around, shakes head, goes back to enjoying his fictional league*

tra-la-la

[bababui]

Im sure the FTC will be waiting with bated breath for your letter. There has been talk of putting aside the Countrywide investigation to deal immediatly with your OOTP complaint. We just cannot allow foreigners to come over here and market games with only about 95% of 2008 rosters.

[Long_Long_Name]

Originally Posted by treedom

*looks around, shakes head, goes back to enjoying his fictional league*

tra-la-la

Post of the day .

Oh, and go listen to Studio's remix album, Yearbook 2. Top notch .

[Hammerdog]

As I said, I don't have much credibility with the community. I'm not surprised by the initial reaction. The fact of the matter is that the game was marketed as having 2008 rosters. It doesn't have them. Period.

Why is that making a mountain out of a molehill if that is why I bought the game?

As for the FTC, perhaps I ought to keep my sarcasm to myself. Agreed that they have better things to do than investigate OOTP. The fact that that is obvious should have suggested sarcasm. Poor judgment on my part--sarcasm doesn't come over well in this medium, especially from an unknown poster.

In short: OOTP obviously thought rosters were a big deal--why else market it so strongly as having those rosters? But then those rosters are not part of the game. I'm not asking for perfection in terms of ratings--but players with ratings would be nice. Or a roster that actually has the right players on it, if only at the major league level.

I regret the snide comment on the FTC, as now that will be the focus of responses. But I have a point. And I'm not the only person who is disappointed in the rosters. Look around. I did--just to be sure I wasn't in left field.

[Syd Thrift]

So when Madden '08 was released without full NFL Europe or Arena League rosters, did you contact the FTC about that as well?

[Erik W.]

After I sleep on it, I will probably hold off on the letter to my state attorney general and the Federal Trade Commission alleging a deceptive trade practice.

I don't think the Federal Trade Commission does what you think it does.

[jbergey22]

I'd like to be added to the "Do not call list" as well. Thanks.

[CRTsports.com]

If I understand the MLB agreement right with 2K correctly , 2K and any first party console maker can make an official baseball game. OOTP doesn't fall under that umbrella so they technically can't have the real players in the game.

But when some fancy advertising and thinking ahead they can get a "copy" of the game to an individual before release and then he puts in the rosters and its released as an add-on to the game. Thus skirting the MLB/2K agreement and having real players.

But I could be 100% wrong.

[Long_Long_Name]

Originally Posted by CRTsports.com

If I understand the MLB agreement right with 2K correctly , 2K and any first party console maker can make an official baseball game. OOTP doesn't fall under that umbrella so they technically can't have the real players in the game.

But when some fancy advertising and thinking ahead they can get a "copy" of the game to an individual before release and then he puts in the rosters and its released as an add-on to the game. Thus skirting the MLB/2K agreement and having real players.

But I could be 100% wrong.

I could be wrong too, but it is my belief that player names and statistics have been ruled to be of the public domain, and therefore Markus and anyone else can use stats and player names for whatever they want. However, OOTP could not use copyrighted material (logos and such) without MLB's license, and it could clearly not call itself official.

[CubbyFan23]

Originally Posted by Hammerdog

So I ordered OOTP9 based on claims that such rosters would be included. They are not.

Wrong. Close thread.

[theasfl]

Originally Posted by treedom

tra-la-la

good song...

[edm]

wait, I'm confused. I'm playing the game with MLB rosters right now that were included with the game.

[Sudy Nym]

I think you guys are giving Hammerdog an unreasonably hard time. While I understand the reaction to his complaint, at least he's been respectful and phrased his thoughts coherently. Kind of a rotten welcome for a new member of the community.

That said, never in my wildest dreams did I expect the included rosters to be complete. Would be awesome if they had been, though. (And I say that with the utmost respect for the roster-makers. I'm not ungrateful for their work.)

[KevinTMC]

This thread, together with the agony expressed during the early hours of overloaded servers yesterday, is actually making me think a little.

Let's grant that perfection should always be our goal when creating something; but also, that perfection is most always unachievable in this world. If these propositions are both true, then almost everything that we create is going to fall short and thus be at least something of a disappointment. How do we deal with that?

Specifically, just how short of perfection does something have to fall before we are right to be greatly disappointed--enough so that we complain about it publicly? On the other hand, how close to perfection does something need to come before gratitude is not only an appropriate response, but even required of us? Finally, how does the fact that we paid a certain amount of money for the creative product change the equation (if at all)?

Tough questions in the abstract, to be sure; but easy enough to answer in certain concrete cases. Such as the case of OOTP. If you ask me, this game has been labored over lovingly enough, with enough dedication to detail and to the desires of the user base, and with such a high quality of result, that it is only right for me to express gratitude. Even more so since the price is so reasonable, particularly considering the vast hours of enjoyment this game can provide--if OOTP doesn't give the customer more than his money's worth, I don't know what does.

So, to Markus and the rest of the team (including the beta testers and other dedicated users who helped): THANK YOU!

(And keep up the good work, because we all expect and eagerly anticipate an even better product with OOTP 10.)

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I don't think the Federal Trade Commission does what you think it does.

You gotta admit it might be cool if they did though.

[spot]

The AAA teams that I saw when I started my MLB 2008 league have a full roster. As do the AA and various single A affiliates. I do understand the frustration from the OP and the various other posters regarding this issue but I am perplexed at the level of dissatisfaction that it is garnering. The bonus for me is the poster making a point to the effect of "I know how difficult it is..." Do ya now?

FYI. One of the priorities, from Markus himself, for the first patch was to fix the MLB rosters. Please be patient and get to know the game a bit, warts and all. If that doesn't work then put the game away and come back after the second or third patch.