Possible HOFer

tcblcommish · 03-12-2008, 09:25 PM

I would like to have some opinions on this guy about the hall of fame in my league.

Here are his stats and credentials...

11 Seasons
9 Time All Star
5 Time MVP
1 Gold Glove
6 World Series Championships

Here are the stats

GP 1401
AB 5167
R 1156
H 1892
2b 284
3b 19
HR 398
RBI 1196
BB 978
SO 619
SB 26 (13 caught)
AVE .366
OBP .468
SLG .660

What do you guys think?

He is also a pioneer of the league. My league has been around for 12 seasons so he is one of the greats.

RchW · 03-12-2008, 10:42 PM

I need more context. Was your league high offense. Things like BA and ERA might help.

Raidergoo · 03-12-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

Here are his stats and credentials...

11 Seasons
9 Time All Star
5 Time MVP
1 Gold Glove
6 World Series Championships

The stats are almost secondary. He should be a cornerstone of your HoF.

lencombs · 03-12-2008, 10:47 PM

I would vote yes, while his hit total 1892 is way below the 3000 mark, and his homer total of 398 is about 100 below the 500 mark, he has only played in 1400 games in 11 seasons which equals 127 games a year so either he is hurt a lot or you run a shorter season.

The thing that takes him over the top is that he is a 5 time MVP and 9 time all-star, so without knowing anything else about your league, he has been the best player 5 out of 12 years and would be a great representitive in your hall of fame regardless of career total numbers.

Vezna31 · 03-12-2008, 11:04 PM

On pure stats alone, I would say no, but for the same arguments that others have already stated...MVP and All-Star selections, I agree to be a cornerstone. I would guess that this guy was already a slightly older 4-5 star veteran superstar when you created the league, thereby depriving him of past younger/earlier superstar seasons that would have given him HoF statistics easily.

I've had a few of these situations in my own league. I posted several of the players on the forum for a vote and wound up manually electing most of them later. I consider it the Veterans Committee election

Left-handed Badger · 03-12-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vezna31

On pure stats alone, I would say no, but for the same arguments that others have already stated...MVP and All-Star selections, I agree to be a cornerstone. I would guess that this guy was already a slightly older 4-5 star veteran superstar when you created the league, thereby depriving him of past younger/earlier superstar seasons that would have given him HoF statistics easily.

I've had a few of these situations in my own league. I posted several of the players on the forum for a vote and wound up manually electing most of them later. I consider it the Veterans Committee election

Not to be argumentative. But with a .366 BA and 468 OBP. Pure stats (at least 2 of them) alone is enough to get him in. I know the accumaltive ones are low. But dang.

Why didnt he play more than 11 seasons anyhow?

Vezna31 · 03-12-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

Not to be argumentative. But with a .366 BA and 468 OBP. Pure stats (at least 2 of them) alone is enough to get him in. I know the accumaltive ones are low. But dang.

Why didnt he play more than 11 seasons anyhow?

Mostly the 11 seasons, games played, amount of hits and HR's.

Syd Thrift · 03-13-2008, 12:05 AM

Not just yes, but HECK yes. Actually, I was thinking of another word in front of yes but it's naughty.

ctorg · 03-13-2008, 07:04 AM

I think this is a pretty solid "yes" for me. Short career, but he basically played for just his peak, and it was a very long peak from the looks of things.

tcblcommish · 03-13-2008, 09:35 AM

He was one of those guys that got hurt once a year but he actually lost most of one season. He tore a muscle in his leg sliding into 2nd. He missed all but 34 games that season.

He is actually still playing but in a more limited role. He is not having a real great season. His numbers just died in his latest season and instead of being the best player in baseball, he is now a back up after 1 season. He went from a 117 contact toa 56 in the offseason. His power took about the same kind of hit.

ctorg · 03-13-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

He was one of those guys that got hurt once a year but he actually lost most of one season. He tore a muscle in his leg sliding into 2nd. He missed all but 34 games that season.

He is actually still playing but in a more limited role. He is not having a real great season. His numbers just died in his latest season and instead of being the best player in baseball, he is now a back up after 1 season. He went from a 117 contact toa 56 in the offseason. His power took about the same kind of hit.

I had a guy who managed to put up a VORP of about 900 in nine seasons, playing 140+ games in only about 4 or 5 of them, before going down with a career ending injury. I considered him to be a HOF lock. He was so phenomenal in the time that he did play, the impact more than made up for the injuries.

falkonisback · 03-13-2008, 11:20 AM

ABSOLUTELY YES!!! You shouldn't have even had to post this! LOL. Definitely a cornerstone and definitely a pioneer of your league.

Dagrims · 03-13-2008, 12:18 PM

Not only would he be a unanimous inductee into the HOF, I likely would have the Martin Pottle Award in my league for the best offensive player.

ctorg · 03-13-2008, 01:04 PM

Pottle's stats per 162 games:
g 162
ab 597
r 134
h 219
2b 33
3b 2
hr 46
rbi 138
bb 113
k 72
sb 3
cs 2
avg .366
obp .468
slg .660

To have that as your average season over a decade is amazing, even if injuries have shortened your playing time.

conception · 03-13-2008, 02:12 PM

The fact that he made the all-star team 9 times should be enough for me. The HOF should never be merely about pure numbers, but what a guy's prominence in the league was. Guys can have longevity and reach milestone's, but making an all-star team 9 times means that you were at the forefront of your league.

woodfeld · 03-13-2008, 02:37 PM

I'm not as quick as the others to say yes since I'm a big believer in longevity/health being important in a HOF vote. For example, I'm not sure Barry Larkin is a HOFer, mainly due to injuries (though he doesn't have the same resume of dominance as this guy did). Also, Mo Vaughn and Dale Murphy are somewhat similar (again, w/o the same kind of dominance).

This guy was too dominant for a solid decade to not get in though. Plus, he was probably in his mid-20's when the league started, so he missed a couple years of stats.

DrSatan · 03-13-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

The stats are almost secondary. He should be a cornerstone of your HoF.

Agreed, even if he only played 11 seasons. He was the MVP for almost 50% of his career, and an allstar for 90%. I'd be interested to see what impact he had on winning those 6 rings. If he was a stud in the playoffs also, then you should name the MVP after him.

SRJeff · 03-14-2008, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

I would like to have some opinions on this guy about the hall of fame in my league.

Here are his stats and credentials...

11 Seasons
9 Time All Star
5 Time MVP
1 Gold Glove
6 World Series Championships

Here are the stats

GP 1401
AB 5167
R 1156
H 1892
2b 284
3b 19
HR 398
RBI 1196
BB 978
SO 619
SB 26 (13 caught)
AVE .366
OBP .468
SLG .660

What do you guys think?

He is also a pioneer of the league. My league has been around for 12 seasons so he is one of the greats.

Nah, buddy. 3000 hits is a reasonable standard. Even baseball, of all things, isn't entirely relativist.

Still, I'd take the guy. Did you mess with league norms?

tcblcommish · 03-14-2008, 08:46 AM

I didn't do anything with player creation or anything and all the league totals are the same as they always are on default

ctorg · 03-14-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodfeld

I'm not as quick as the others to say yes since I'm a big believer in longevity/health being important in a HOF vote. For example, I'm not sure Barry Larkin is a HOFer, mainly due to injuries (though he doesn't have the same resume of dominance as this guy did). Also, Mo Vaughn and Dale Murphy are somewhat similar (again, w/o the same kind of dominance).

This guy was too dominant for a solid decade to not get in though. Plus, he was probably in his mid-20's when the league started, so he missed a couple years of stats.

I'm not on the Dale Murphy/Mo Vaughn bandwagon either. They were pretty dominant for a short time, but nothing like this guy. I thought Kirby Puckett was extremely borderline but don't have a problem with him being in (not sure if I would have voted for him myself if I had a vote), and this guy is way, way better than Kirby Puckett in a similar amount of playing time.

View Poll Results: Should Martin Pottle be in the Hall of Fame
Yes	40	95.24%
No	0	0%
Didn't play long enough	2	4.76%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

03-12-2008, 09:25 PM	#1
tcblcommish Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,444	Possible HOFer I would like to have some opinions on this guy about the hall of fame in my league. Here are his stats and credentials... 11 Seasons 9 Time All Star 5 Time MVP 1 Gold Glove 6 World Series Championships Here are the stats GP 1401 AB 5167 R 1156 H 1892 2b 284 3b 19 HR 398 RBI 1196 BB 978 SO 619 SB 26 (13 caught) AVE .366 OBP .468 SLG .660 What do you guys think? He is also a pioneer of the league. My league has been around for 12 seasons so he is one of the greats.

03-12-2008, 10:42 PM	#2
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	I need more context. Was your league high offense. Things like BA and ERA might help. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

03-12-2008, 10:47 PM	#4
lencombs All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 535	I would vote yes, while his hit total 1892 is way below the 3000 mark, and his homer total of 398 is about 100 below the 500 mark, he has only played in 1400 games in 11 seasons which equals 127 games a year so either he is hurt a lot or you run a shorter season. The thing that takes him over the top is that he is a 5 time MVP and 9 time all-star, so without knowing anything else about your league, he has been the best player 5 out of 12 years and would be a great representitive in your hall of fame regardless of career total numbers. __________________ "A passion for statistics is the earmark of a literate people." - Paul Fisher "Baseball isn't statistics. Baseball is (Joe) DiMaggio rounding second." - Jimmy Cannon

03-12-2008, 11:04 PM	#5
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,990	On pure stats alone, I would say no, but for the same arguments that others have already stated...MVP and All-Star selections, I agree to be a cornerstone. I would guess that this guy was already a slightly older 4-5 star veteran superstar when you created the league, thereby depriving him of past younger/earlier superstar seasons that would have given him HoF statistics easily. I've had a few of these situations in my own league. I posted several of the players on the forum for a vote and wound up manually electing most of them later. I consider it the Veterans Committee election __________________ Owner/Operator - Vezna Financial Services - Accounting and taxes.

03-13-2008, 07:04 AM	#9
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I think this is a pretty solid "yes" for me. Short career, but he basically played for just his peak, and it was a very long peak from the looks of things. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-13-2008, 09:35 AM	#10
tcblcommish Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,444	He was one of those guys that got hurt once a year but he actually lost most of one season. He tore a muscle in his leg sliding into 2nd. He missed all but 34 games that season. He is actually still playing but in a more limited role. He is not having a real great season. His numbers just died in his latest season and instead of being the best player in baseball, he is now a back up after 1 season. He went from a 117 contact toa 56 in the offseason. His power took about the same kind of hit.

03-13-2008, 11:20 AM	#12
falkonisback All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Iberia, Louisiana Posts: 869	ABSOLUTELY YES!!! You shouldn't have even had to post this! LOL. Definitely a cornerstone and definitely a pioneer of your league.

03-13-2008, 12:18 PM	#13
Dagrims Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,827	Not only would he be a unanimous inductee into the HOF, I likely would have the Martin Pottle Award in my league for the best offensive player. __________________ "Read books, get brain."

03-13-2008, 01:04 PM	#14
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Pottle's stats per 162 games: g 162 ab 597 r 134 h 219 2b 33 3b 2 hr 46 rbi 138 bb 113 k 72 sb 3 cs 2 avg .366 obp .468 slg .660 To have that as your average season over a decade is amazing, even if injuries have shortened your playing time. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-13-2008, 02:12 PM	#15
conception All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,150	The fact that he made the all-star team 9 times should be enough for me. The HOF should never be merely about pure numbers, but what a guy's prominence in the league was. Guys can have longevity and reach milestone's, but making an all-star team 9 times means that you were at the forefront of your league.

03-13-2008, 02:37 PM	#16
woodfeld Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 198	I'm not as quick as the others to say yes since I'm a big believer in longevity/health being important in a HOF vote. For example, I'm not sure Barry Larkin is a HOFer, mainly due to injuries (though he doesn't have the same resume of dominance as this guy did). Also, Mo Vaughn and Dale Murphy are somewhat similar (again, w/o the same kind of dominance). This guy was too dominant for a solid decade to not get in though. Plus, he was probably in his mid-20's when the league started, so he missed a couple years of stats.

03-14-2008, 08:46 AM	#19
tcblcommish Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,444	I didn't do anything with player creation or anything and all the league totals are the same as they always are on default