MLE's and PCM's in 2007

[Kemp]

So I'm thinking through various fictional league ideas and I started thinking about (GASP!) MLE's and PCM's. In another thread Markus wrote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

All that matter to the CPU is the potential of players, which are not influenced by the feeder leagues MLEs. They only influence the current ratings.

I had thought that MLE's would impact potential ratings so this raises questions for me regarding how to set up my feeder leagues. I think the best way to ask my question is in the form of an extreme example.

Say I wanted to have a feeder league in some random, third world country. They have no Little League, the kids don't play much baseball, no high school ball. How might I simulate that if I wanted to have a feeder league in that country? That is, how do I set up a league where the players CURRENT ratings and their POTENTIAL ratings are low enough that there is almost no way that anyone from that league can become good enough to play in a professional league?

Obviously this is an extreme example. What I think I'd like to do is set up multiple feeder leagues with different levels of ability where certain leagues generate excellent prospects while other leagues produce far fewer prospects.

This particular topic is what made me stop playing 2006. I just could never create the kind of league I wanted because I never got a decent explanation of MLE's versus PCM's.

Thanks.

[ctorg]

Sounds to me like you'd need to adjust the PCMs rather than the MLEs. I'm not sure how feeder leagues work, whether they are influenced by the parent league PCMs or whatever, so I can't say much more.

[Kemp]

Originally Posted by ctorg

Sounds to me like you'd need to adjust the PCMs rather than the MLEs.

Do PCM's impact both Current and Potential ratings? Frankly, I'm not sure what the heck MLE's are for!

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Kemp

Do PCM's impact both Current and Potential ratings? Frankly, I'm not sure what the heck MLE's are for!

PCMs affect both, but I don't know if they will be alterable for feeder leagues, since I haven't seen 2007 yet. I don't think regular affiliated minors had alterable PCMs in 2006.

I don't think anyone is clear on how these things work, but it definitely seemed that the game guide was wrong.

I do wish we could get a definitive explanation from someone who knows, because really, it shouldn't be as theoretical as it is.

[Nu-Bru]

I would love to see a full explanation of how MLE's and PCM's work in 2007 because Kemp's right, the feeder league concept changes the situation significantly. If not here for the explanation, then in the game guide or in-game help.

[Kemp]

Originally Posted by Nu-Bru

I would love to see a full explanation of how MLE's and PCM's work in 2007 because Kemp's right, the feeder league concept changes the situation significantly. If not here for the explanation, then in the game guide or in-game help.

I've hinted at this a few times on this board and some beta testers have come out and said it will be explained. I sure hope so.

[diamond2377]

Can someone please explain what PCM and MLE's, and feeder leagues are! I keep hearing these terms and have found no info on how they effect the game.

[Nu-Bru]

Originally Posted by diamond2377

Can someone please explain what PCM and MLE's, and feeder leagues are! I keep hearing these terms and have found no info on how they effect the game.

Unless I am missing it, they are no longer posting last year's game guide for some reason, so see the text file below for what it said on PCM's and MLE's.

Also, a recent thread about feeder leagues:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=138302

[No Pepper]

Not sure if I should enter my sense of these things, which isn't that extensive, but this is what I've understood so far:

Player Creation Modifiers (PCM) set the overal skill set (or potential) of players upon creation. If you have a PCM value less than 1 for power hitting, then any player created will have less power, on average, than what "major league" quality players can achieve. A value of 1 is default for modern MLB in OOTP.

Major League Equivalency (MLE) sets the current ratings and/or quality level of the league in question, and act as an evaluation guide in regards to the development of players. MLEs for minor leagues are adjustable to set this quality, but not PCM because it is assumed that all players created under this system have major league talents, just not developed yet. MLEs, in a way, determine if, when, or how fast players reach their potential (as dictated by PCM).

ctorg is right that both PCMs and MLEs affect both current and potential ratings.

A league with PCM average of 0.2 and MLE of 0.2 has very little chance of creating/developing a player that would succeed or get in MLB (with PCM and MLE averages of 1.0). In other words, you wouldn't expect a player to have a 100 power rating on a 1-100 scale. A league with a PCM value of 1.0 and MLE of 0.2 could be considered a league below Rookie level, but with players of MLB potential. It's just that they'd need time and development to obtain their potential.

Is that right?

[Kemp]

Originally Posted by No Pepper

ctorg is right that both PCMs and MLEs affect both current and potential ratings.

That's not correct according to Markus. See the quote in the first post in this thread. I took it from here:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ht=interesting

And that's what makes MLE's screwy to me. I'd love to see someone use MLE's in an example or show some kind of scenario where they would be useful. Are they for evaluation? To reduce player ratings? These are mostly rhetorical questions because I'm almost positive nobody outside the developers or people with access to the beta forums have any idea.

[No Pepper]

You're right Kemp, that statement confused me as well, because it seems contradictory to what numerous people have said in the past and what was in the game guide. The language used is not always exactly clear. But if you go by what Markus said in that post, the CPU only looks at potential (generated by PCMs) in terms of scouting. Therefore, regardless of that league's MLE, if the player has decent potential (no matter where he came from) then he could get drafted/signed into the higher league.

But you'd have to be careful which level league you'd want to put him in, because if his feeder league MLE's are low, his current ratings are also low. And as far as Markus has said, "MLEs" are used to determined if the player is at the correct developmental level within your organization. He might have the potential, but you don't know how far away he is from achieving it, if he does.

[Nu-Bru]

Kemp - Not that I am trying to hold him to it, but recall that battists promised you that he would try to "corral these beasts*" in his updated game guide or help screen. Rather than going through a long discussion that will lead nowhere, I suggest we see what he comes up with, if he is willing.

*Post #30.

Edit: This is not to dismiss what you were saying, No Pepper.

[No Pepper]

A persistent reminder is always good Nu-Bru, and I've taken no offense. This is just my 'spring training' before the season of '07. I'm of the opinion that these inner-workings of the game need to be explained clearly and that wasn't satisfied as well as it could have in the last version. Note all the league setup problems. But yes, lets hope these beasts are corraled.

[Kemp]

I simply started this thread as something to discuss while we wait for the release. I've been toying around with some fictional setups and came to the realization that MLE's and PCM's will likely play some part (I think! I guess!) in the final configuration of any league I decide on.

[Nu-Bru]

Originally Posted by Kemp

I simply started this thread as something to discuss while we wait for the release. I've been toying around with some fictional setups and came to the realization that MLE's and PCM's will likely play some part (I think! I guess!) in the final configuration of any league I decide on.

Yes, but your inclusion of feeder leagues in the discussion complicates matters even more. Thanks a lot! (j/k )

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Kemp

That's not correct according to Markus. See the quote in the first post in this thread. I took it from here:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ht=interesting

And that's what makes MLE's screwy to me. I'd love to see someone use MLE's in an example or show some kind of scenario where they would be useful. Are they for evaluation? To reduce player ratings? These are mostly rhetorical questions because I'm almost positive nobody outside the developers or people with access to the beta forums have any idea.

Affiliated leagues' MLEs don't affect potential, but at least in 2006, it supposedly did affect them if the leagues were unaffiliated.

[CBL-Commish]

I always wondered why MLEs weren't just calculated based on the current ratings of the players in the league? An MLE is supposed to be a ratio between the overall abilities of the players in the league and the abilities of major leaguers. Why do you need to change that? Is it a goal? If you set an MLE to .90 will AAA players naturally gravitate there?

I never understood was what good it did you to set an MLE of a league to 0.95 when the average of all players actually playing in the league was, say, 0.5.

[Curtis]

Kemp, you might be trying to do something that the game isn't set up for. Just as fall/winter ball leagues can't work the way they do in real life, the feeder leagues probably won't, either. Remember, when the topic of feeder leagues first came up, Markus (or Marc) told us not to get too excited about them because they wouldn't model real life, just be an alternate means of filling out draft classes.

As far as I know, the only way to do what you want to do is to make independent leagues, not feeders. Feeders are associated with IL/ML level leagues and take their potential maximums from them in the same way that affiliate leagues do. I THINK!

[JHruska]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

I always wondered why MLEs weren't just calculated based on the current ratings of the players in the league? An MLE is supposed to be a ratio between the overall abilities of the players in the league and the abilities of major leaguers. Why do you need to change that? Is it a goal? If you set an MLE to .90 will AAA players naturally gravitate there?

I never understood was what good it did you to set an MLE of a league to 0.95 when the average of all players actually playing in the league was, say, 0.5.

See, I thought MLEs were supposed to be more like they are IRL, a ratio of what stats in the lower level will roughly convert to if that player were to move up to a higher level. That shouldn't really affect the talent of the players at that particular level, other than to decide when the organization promotes platers into or out of the level.

[Kemp]

Originally Posted by Curtis

As far as I know, the only way to do what you want to do is to make independent leagues, not feeders. Feeders are associated with IL/ML level leagues and take their potential maximums from them in the same way that affiliate leagues do. I THINK!

And that's fine. I mean, it's not really a big deal to me if the feeder leagues are affiliated like that. I started this thread simply because I wanted to see if any of the beta testers had any early experience they could share regarding MLE's and PCM's. Once I understand how those work, I can pretty much decide how to use them on my own. The feeder league scenario was just an example I gave in order to tease out an explanation.

But I can wait. I just thought it would be an interesting discussion as we sit waiting for the release.