Shea Hillenbrand DFA'ed...

[GoCubsAndJays]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=970081600908

A weird last couple of days has led the Jays to DFA'ing Hillenbrand.


This really forces management's hand to try and get a deal done. An article on MLB.com is saying that the Angels were rumoured to have offered a package of one of Kennedy/Kendrick with one of Moseley/Saunders. The article is here

If this was true, which I extremely doubt... than there's no way it would still be on the table with what has transpired today. And if it somehow is still on the table... JP has to pounce all over it. Getting Kendrick alone would be an incredible steal.

[SanDiegoPadres19]

I see him in a Padres uniform before the end of the week. Seeing as they just released Vinny Castilla, they need a 3B and he is excatly what they need.

[bababui]

No way that ultra-conservative Bill Stonehead was gonna trade Kendrick for Hilebrand. If he tries he gets a bullet in the head.

Kennedy maybe because he is gone at the end of the year anyway.

[kq76]

I think JP has lost his mind. It doesn't sound right that Shea would go off just because no one congratulated him on adopting another child. With JP going off on their 3-4-5 (or was it their 2-3-4?) batters before the break, including Wells who is having a very good year and Glaus who is also having a very good year, I think JP has lost his mind. The pressure of winning has got to him and he can't help himself from getting on the players every chance he gets. Sometimes you need to lay off people, but I don't think he can. Sure, Shea shouldn't have publicized it all, but I imagine that with the emtion of adopting another child that he himself broke and let his frustrations be known.

Bottom line, lay off the guys and just let them play, JP. Please, I beg of you!

[rudel.dietrich]

His RBI rating has dropped the last few seasons. Maybe a new uniform will turn him into an RBI machine once more

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by kq76

I think JP has lost his mind. It doesn't sound right that Shea would go off just because no one congratulated him on adopting another child. With JP going off on their 3-4-5 (or was it their 2-3-4?) batters before the break, including Wells who is having a very good year and Glaus who is also having a very good year, I think JP has lost his mind. The pressure of winning has got to him and he can't help himself from getting on the players every chance he gets. Sometimes you need to lay off people, but I don't think he can. Sure, Shea shouldn't have publicized it all, but I imagine that with the emtion of adopting another child that he himself broke and let his frustrations be known.

Bottom line, lay off the guys and just let them play, JP. Please, I beg of you!

Shea Hillenbrand is mad at Gibbons not Riccardi?

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Shea Hillenbrand is mad at Gibbons not Riccardi?

Perhaps this time, but as I, admittedly poorly, was trying to say, I think their problems right now originate with JP. I obviously don't know the whole story, but from following the team it sounds to me as if JP has been whipping the horses too much. I imagine JP has been on Gibbons's ass too and so Gibbons has done the same to the players. I have a difficult time believing Shea's only problem was with Gibbons admonishing him in front of the team. It sounds to me as though this was just the last straw. What worries me most is we might lose Wells over this too and it will make things difficult to attract players in the future.

[darkenigma510]

Too bad. I liked Shea. One has to wonder whether JP is just not a people person.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by kq76

Perhaps this time, but as I, admittedly poorly, was trying to say, I think their problems right now originate with JP. I obviously don't know the whole story, but from following the team it sounds to me as if JP has been whipping the horses too much. I imagine JP has been on Gibbons's ass too and so Gibbons has done the same to the players. I have a difficult time believing Shea's only problem was with Gibbons admonishing him in front of the team. It sounds to me as though this was just the last straw. What worries me most is we might lose Wells over this too and it will make things difficult to attract players in the future.

Hillenbrand also said that he didn't like the fact that he wasn't getting as much playing time as he would like (even though he was an everyday player and was 5th in the team in at bats.)


Based on what we've heard (and that's the only thing we can go by right now without hearing the rest of the facts) it doesn't seem like Gibbons has really done anything wrong... Hillenbrand has seemed to be really unprofessional about the whole thing; and unless I read something which proves otherwise, I'm glad Hillenbrand's gone.

[Erik W.]

I think JP needs to go. The comments, the overpaying for mediocre players, and now this all make me think so.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by kq76

Perhaps this time, but as I, admittedly poorly, was trying to say, I think their problems right now originate with JP. I obviously don't know the whole story, but from following the team it sounds to me as if JP has been whipping the horses too much. I imagine JP has been on Gibbons's ass too and so Gibbons has done the same to the players. I have a difficult time believing Shea's only problem was with Gibbons admonishing him in front of the team. It sounds to me as though this was just the last straw. What worries me most is we might lose Wells over this too and it will make things difficult to attract players in the future.

According to the story, Gibbons and Hillenbrand had problems for quite awhile with Gibbons calling Hillenbrand selfish for demand to play more. Hillenbrand also talked about there were arguments two months ago. Indeed the recent incident was just the last draw between those two.

As for Wells, he already talked about the JP Ricciardi comments and it didn't seem to change his mind or JP's about signing him for long term.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

According to the story, Gibbons and Hillenbrand had problems for quite awhile with Gibbons calling Hillenbrand selfish for demand to play more. Hillenbrand also talked about there were arguments two months ago. Indeed the recent incident was just the last draw between those two.

As for Wells, he already talked about the JP Ricciardi comments and it didn't seem to change his mind or JP's about signing him for long term.

The only weird thing is that Hillenbrand HAS been playing everyday. I don't know why he would be demanding to play more.


The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to play the field a bit more rather than being stuck at DH. However, he knew when the Jays signed him that he would be their primary DH. And whenever the Jays give him an opportunity to play the field he seems to make an error.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

Hillenbrand also said that he didn't like the fact that he wasn't getting as much playing time as he would like (even though he was an everyday player and was 5th in the team in at bats.)


Based on what we've heard (and that's the only thing we can go by right now without hearing the rest of the facts) it doesn't seem like Gibbons has really done anything wrong... Hillenbrand has seemed to be really unprofessional about the whole thing; and unless I read something which proves otherwise, I'm glad Hillenbrand's gone.

Fifth on a team with as much platooning as the Jays do is not that big of an accomplish. There's only 9 starting batters. You'd think a DH, being usually one of the best batters, would be in the lineup as much as possible. Besides, it sounds like it wasn't so much as him not getting enough playing time (I think that part was more the last few days), but more that he wasn't happy with playing DH so much, that he wanted to play the field more. I'd never be offended by someone telling me they were dissatisfied with a lesser role. I would be upset, however, with someone being satisfied with a lesser role.

I'm giving Gibbons a pass on this because before this I haven't heard much about the players not liking his style and I can accept the occassional miscue. But ripping into people with their co-workers very rarely works. From what I understand, he went off on Shea for being too jovial after last night's loss instead of being angry like Gibbons was. I can appreciate that because I hate it when people are happy after losses, but I don't agree with admonishing people in public.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Azamien

I think JP needs to go. The comments, the overpaying for mediocre players, and now this all make me think so.

I think this has been discussed a couple of times that there isn't really overpaying. It's just market adjustments. It's inflated due to tons of new MLB revenue from all the new media contracts. Every contract last offseason looked inflated, even those of "cheap" teams like Oakland, and even the Royals talked about how they got an additional $15m to spend.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

The only weird thing is that Hillenbrand HAS been playing everyday. I don't know why he would be demanding to play more.


The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to play the field a bit more rather than being stuck at DH. However, he knew when the Jays signed him that he would be their primary DH. And whenever the Jays give him an opportunity to play the field he seems to make an error.

He is talking about early in the season, when the team was still trying to sort out the roster. And the big argument he had with Gibbons was apparently two months ago.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by kq76

Fifth on a team with as much platooning as the Jays do is not that big of an accomplish. There's only 9 starting batters. You'd think a DH, being usually one of the best batters, would be in the lineup as much as possible. Besides, it sounds like it wasn't so much as him not getting enough playing time (I think that part was more the last few days), but more that he wasn't happy with playing DH so much, that he wanted to play the field more. I'd never be offended by someone telling me they were dissatisfied with a lesser role. I would be upset, however, with someone being satisfied with a lesser role.

I'm giving Gibbons a pass on this because before this I haven't heard much about the players not liking his style and I can accept the occassional miscue. But ripping into people with their co-workers very rarely works. From what I understand, he went off on Shea for being too jovial after last night's loss instead of being angry like Gibbons was. I can appreciate that because I hate it when people are happy after losses, but I don't agree with admonishing people in public.

The only people with more at bats then Hillenbrand are Wells, Glaus, Hill, and Overbay.

The only person who you might argue should have less at bats would be Hill, but since middle infield is a weakness and corner infield/DH we have a bit more depth... it makes some sense. Plus, if Hillenbrand hadn't missed the past few games due to the adoption he probably would have more at bats than Hill.


You probably are right about the wanting to play the field thing, but Hillenbrand has been brutal defensively when given a chance, so I don't blame Gibbons at all for being reluctant to play him in the field more. At first base you have Overbay who is a sure-handed first baseman, and at third base Hillenbrand has a brutal .857 fielding percentage in his 15 starts.


He really has no reason to complain though, he has started in the field in 32 games this year. That's more than 1/3 of our games for the season, and considering he knew he'd be a primary DH when he signed the 1 year extension with us this winter... he really shouldn't have anything to complain about.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

He is talking about early in the season, when the team was still trying to sort out the roster. And the big argument he had with Gibbons was apparently two months ago.

He was playing everyday early in the season too... and he was playing in the field even more then.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by GoCubsAndJays

He was playing everyday early in the season too... and he was playing in the field even more then.

There were five games in May he didn't play at all, with two other games not starting. There was a stretch of six games he had only 4 at bats.

[GoCubsAndJays]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

There were five games in May he didn't play at all, with two other games not starting. There was a stretch of six games he had only 4 at bats.

3 of those games were smack dab in the middle of interleague play. Overbay and Glaus are both superior hitters vs right handed pitchers so of course they'd get priority over him.


Gibbons also likes to make sure all his players, so people will sit a bit more with him managing than most other guys. Not playing in 5 of 29 games is not too bad, definitely not something one should be complaining about. Gibbons like to make sure all his players stay fresh, and if Hillenbrand gets pissed because a couple of his at bats are taken away to make sure other players on his team stay fresh and game-ready, then so be it. He won't have to worry about it anymore. Hinske has a FAR better OPS vs right handed pitchers and I'm sure he could handle the position without bitching like Hillenbrand has.

Non everyday players with significant at bats who have a higher OPS than Hillenbrand vs Righties:

Reed Johnson
Gregg Zaun
Eric Hinske

Hillenbrand should still be lucky that he receives far more at bats than any of these three. All three of them have performed far better vs right handed pitchers and should have actually been seeing more playing time than they have.

[Skipaway]

You are talking about something unrelated to this issue. It's not about if Hillenbrand was given enough playing time that he deserved, but how to manage Hillenbrand. It's normal for players to complain about not playing more, or hitting in the wrong spots in the lineups, regardless how they are playing.

The issue was indeed Hillenbrand was sometimes not in the lineup as he claimed, and he went to the manager to complain. What we are not sure of is how Gibbons explained it to Hillenbrand. If indeed he called Hillenbrand for that, then he might just have poor managing skills.